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So following a recent windfall I'm hopefully in a position to get the two post ramp I’ve been wanting in my barn Ive heard that many of the single phase ramps need a 16 amp supply, and I've seen a few transformers to achieve this Anyone got any experience with these? Worthwhile or better to wire in a proper supply? TIA
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 855
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Have you got a link to these? It seems unlikely that its possible because of the laws of physics. Given a fixed voltage supply (240v) To achieve a higher current you would need to reduce the output voltage of the transformer.
Simplisticly, Power = Current x Volts (P = I x V)
so for 240v and 13A: P = 13 x 240 = 3120
therefore to achieve an increase in current to 16A, treanspose the equation to P/I = V: 3120/16 = 195v
So to achieve the 16A output and not draw too much power from the mains ring would require a transformer to give an output of 195v (assuming the transformer is 100% efficient which it won't be)
Your best and safest solution would be to run a 30A spur from the main fuse box and use that.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 855
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That is a step up transformer the converts 110v to 230v. The two 16A outlets will only provide that level of current if the input has sufficient power to do so. Being a 110v input its going to require prbably about 60A @ 110v to achieve this. Either way, its not going to do what you want.
Unfortunately you can't get something for nothing when it comes to electricity!!
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Last Edit: May 27, 2021 9:29:27 GMT by squonk
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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16amp from 13 amp transformers slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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May 27, 2021 10:20:52 GMT
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To put it simply a transformer doesnt alter your amps it alters your volts.
In this case you don't need to alter the volts so you don't need a transformer.
What you need is a 16amp supply installing. Theres no real 'adaptor' you can buy for that you just need an electrician to advise you on how best to go about getting a supply installed in your specific installation. It may be as easy as adding a 16 amp socket to your existing socket ring or it may require a totally new feed to be run from your distribution board depending what you have already.
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May 27, 2021 10:27:23 GMT
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Thanks all , I will get it done properly 😀
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May 27, 2021 10:47:05 GMT
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How big is the motor? Up to 2.2kW should be possible on a 13A socket.... which seems quite big enough?
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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May 27, 2021 11:17:14 GMT
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Don’t know yet Nick, haven’t actually bought one, and since I’ve just broken my arm it might be a few weeks yet! 🤣
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May 27, 2021 15:33:04 GMT
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You will probably find that the posts made for the European market state 16amp supply as that is the standard single phase outlet rating. Realistically you want it wired into a proper isolator and fused on its own spur anyway.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 855
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May 27, 2021 15:45:35 GMT
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You will probably find that the posts made for the European market state 16amp supply as that is the standard single phase outlet rating. Realistically you want it wired into a proper isolator and fused on its own spur anyway. Just to clarify, that is not a domestic outlet rating but an industrial outlet rating. A domestic ring from the consumer unit is rated at 13A with single spurs from the consumer unit for individual items such as cooker, shower and immersion heater rated at 30A. My father used to have a single phase lift that was rated at 16A just plugged into a socket in his garage. The problem was the initial start up. sometimes it would trip, sometimes it wouldn't. Once the motor was running it was no problem.
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Last Edit: May 27, 2021 15:46:40 GMT by squonk
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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May 27, 2021 16:11:14 GMT
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Just to clarify, that is not a domestic outlet rating but an industrial outlet rating. A domestic ring from the consumer unit is rated at 13A with single spurs from the consumer unit for individual items such as cooker, shower and immersion heater rated at 30A. My father used to have a single phase lift that was rated at 16A just plugged into a socket in his garage. The problem was the initial start up. sometimes it would trip, sometimes it wouldn't. Once the motor was running it was no problem. Sorry, should have been clearer, within most of the EU the standard mains socket is 16amp, the UK just has to be different ;-)
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May 27, 2021 20:28:43 GMT
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It mostly stems from the fact we have ring mains in the UK, which will be fused at 30/32A. We then have fused plugs to protect individual appliances.
I believe most of Europe install radial circuits to each point. We rate our radials the same at 16A as everyone else, but don’t install them normally. 2 2.5mm cables sharing the load in a big circle, ring) can carry twice the current of a single radial cable, hence the 32 and 16
A 13A plug top is obviously rated 13A, but there is a duty cycle, so it’s fine to pull 13A for a few minutes (like you do when you boil a 3kW kettle) but you’d overheat the fuse if you were drawing that current for a long time, which is where the problems begin as you can then cause damage which causes more heat, which causes more damage etc
As said, probably the best thing to do would be to install a radial with a 16A fuse. If you have a dedicated supply to the garage it wouldn’t be hard to do at all
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May 27, 2021 22:09:30 GMT
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Hi, The fuse in the plug is to protect the wiring not the appliance.
Colin
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 394
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May 27, 2021 22:26:31 GMT
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Just wire in a 240v 16 Amp 3 Pin MK Commando Surface Appliance Inlet - Blue - IP44 Either off your 30A ring main or run a separate circuit if its easier back you your distribution board using a 16A breaker.... NO transformers needed as they transform volts not amps. Simples and how do i know ? I'm an electrician and run my MIG welder off a 16A plugs. You can get a 16A socket complete with a built in switch if you prefer, just type 16A plug & socket into Google 2.5mm cable will easy take 16A as long as the run is not very long.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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16amp from 13 amp transformers Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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May 27, 2021 23:20:54 GMT
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Echoing some of the comments above, my compressor is on a blue 16a plug as it blows the fuses in a 13a plug on startup. That will be the ‘weakest link’ in your system. Mine is just tapped off the ring as described above.
That’s a 4hp (3kw) compressor though, motors in single phase ramps aren’t that beefy, I’d be surprised if its even 3hp (2.2kw). Depending on exact motor spec it’ll Proably run off a 13a plug, especially as they’re comparatively low use, 30 seconds or so at a time max.
I’d buy it, install it, then just wire a 13a plug up to it and try it, you can’t damage anything giving it a try. If it blows the fuse upgrade to a 16a plug, if it doesn’t blow it happy days.
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Last Edit: May 27, 2021 23:30:26 GMT by Dez
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Hi, The fuse in the plug is to protect the wiring not the appliance. Colin Sorry, you are correct. Was just trying to describe it as simply as possible
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Just wire in a 240v 16 Amp 3 Pin MK Commando Surface Appliance Inlet - Blue - IP44 Either off your 30A ring main or run a separate circuit if its easier back you your distribution board using a 16A breaker.... NO transformers needed as they transform volts not amps. Simples and how do i know ? I'm an electrician and run my MIG welder off a 16A plugs. You can get a 16A socket complete with a built in switch if you prefer, just type 16A plug & socket into Google 2.5mm cable will easy take 16A as long as the run is not very long. Wiring an 16a ceeform directly to the 30A ring main can't be by the regs surely? If a fault occurs within the device plugged in it will be able to pull the full 30A before anything stops. A type C 32A circuit breaker could allow anywhere up to 320a to be pulled better it pops on a short circuit fault.
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 394
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Just wire in a 240v 16 Amp 3 Pin MK Commando Surface Appliance Inlet - Blue - IP44 Either off your 30A ring main or run a separate circuit if its easier back you your distribution board using a 16A breaker.... NO transformers needed as they transform volts not amps. Simples and how do i know ? I'm an electrician and run my MIG welder off a 16A plugs. You can get a 16A socket complete with a built in switch if you prefer, just type 16A plug & socket into Google 2.5mm cable will easy take 16A as long as the run is not very long. Wiring an 16a ceeform directly to the 30A ring main can't be by the regs surely? If a fault occurs within the device plugged in it will be able to pull the full 30A before anything stops. A type C 32A circuit breaker could allow anywhere up to 320a to be pulled better it pops on a short circuit fault. It will not do any damage as the trip would go out in Milliseconds, you run your 13A appliances off a 30A circuit in your houses and most of the time very few people have the correct fuse in the plugtop. Plus a fuse does not give the correct protection against some faults and is also not quick enough hence modern circuit breakers. How many times does a fuse go before a trip ? But if you really want a belts and braces approach put a switch fuse or Trip switch before the plug or even another solution If doubts remain, how about installing the 16A socket that have a modular DIN rail enclosure as part of the housing and adding a local 16A MCB or fuse? As i "said" its better to run the circuit on its own back from the distribution board if possible with the correct C/B protection, but that's not always possible if there are no ways spare in the Distribution board hence taking a feed off a 30A cirtcuit like a Ring main . The cables are big enough and you can fuse or C/B down if you wish. like any other spur off a ring. As you are allowed one spur for each socket on a rings main, but i don't recommend that.
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Last Edit: May 28, 2021 8:26:45 GMT by elfman
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May 28, 2021 11:52:35 GMT
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My 4 poster is a 2hp motor through a 13A fused supply but sometimes on start up it trips the 32A breaker on the garage ring main, never blows the 13A fuse though, I believe you can get breakers mores suited to use with motors which have a high start load just need to find the time to look into it.
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May 28, 2021 18:41:56 GMT
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Single phase motors come in various forms but the ones used on high torque stuff (ie not fans and centrifugal pumps) tend to be capacitor. Start, capacitor run with a two capacitors and a centrifugal switch to swap from one to the other as the motor gets up to speed.
If the capacitors (especially the start one) are getting on a bit you get more of a surge at switch-on and are more like to pop fuses/trips etc.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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