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Jan 18, 2021 15:57:18 GMT
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Hey all. I've not posted in some time, but life changes see me now (hopefully) picking up something retro in the next few weeks. In preparation for this, i've decide it's about time I started to sort my garage out to give me the room to store it and the man-cave workspace to actually do things.
It's a rough 6m x 3m single garage with a pitched roof. Your typical 'new build' garage with minimal strength to the roof trusses and minimal power (1 double socket and one single bulb pendant fed from a fused spur from the ground floor socket ring). Currently, amongst too many bits of curse word I really don't need to keep, it's home to a few pushbikes (my other hobby), kids scooters, camping gear, and the usual lawnmower etc. I have a few thrown-in wooden racking units to get stuff off the floor, and 3 bays of heavy duty 600mm deep shelving across the far end. The car i'm planning to home being approx 4m x 1.7m (a MK2 Golf).
Plans are;
- strengthen the roof trusses to allow me to board the roof space and create a storage loft where I can keep the lesser used stuff
- move the existing single bulb pendant into the roof space and add new lighting for the main part of the garage (what is best here? LED batons or panels or....?)
- add more sockets around the walls (i'm right to think I can add unlimited sockets to a fused spur aren't I?)
- finally board the walls and ceiling to create a better feeling space
I know i'm going to need a work bench at some point, but i'm planning a removable one that I can pack away to give me more room. Maybe one hinged from the wall that can latch into place when being used. My tools are all in a roll cab, which will continue, and bikes will all get hung from wall brackets in time.
Any other suggestions for a small garage area? I think a shed for the garden stuff is a given, but the space for that is currently occupied by an aging furry mammal that refuses to let go of it's grip on life.
I'm not massively hands-on when it comes to DIY, but I am ready for the challenge and really looking forward to it. I'm fully clued up on the theory, it's the practical that i've not really had the need to do.....
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duncanmartin
Club Retro Rides Member
Out of retro ownership
Posts: 1,320
Club RR Member Number: 70
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Jan 18, 2021 16:22:45 GMT
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I know your pain regarding a garage too full of stuff for the car (and also, the garage being pretty small). High up shelves help. Putting all the junk you don't use into the loft (of the house) also helps. Good call on keeping the car small. Other things you might want to consider are painting the walls white - this really helps if the lighting isn't great. Maybe painting the floor or fitting flooring - could keep the dust down, protect the concrete, make it easier to find things, and maybe (depending on the flooring) even make it feel warmer. There's an entire thread on lighting solutions in this board somewhere, and there's a really neat folding bench on this post in my thread forum.retro-rides.org/post/2603156/thread (not my bench - I reckon it's longer than my garage!). Take some pictures and some measurements, and then draw out a plan of where you want everything to go. If the garage is 6m long, and the car is only 4m, you might be able to get away with a fixed bench. |
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Jan 18, 2021 19:23:48 GMT
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Thanks. I’ll have a dig through for the lighting thread and see what I can work out. You may be right on the permanent bench idea at the end. The current metal shelving can be split in height so one of those could, in theory, be built under the workbench with the other full height ones at either end turned 90 degrees to the way they are now. Your thread has given me a couple of things to think about though! To put some photos to the question, please see below of its current state.....it may take a bit of work!    |
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2021 19:46:51 GMT by cliveyp
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Jan 18, 2021 19:56:17 GMT
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Yeh you can put as many sockets as you like on your fused spur but obviously not draw more then 13a through them combined or you will pop the fuse.
Batons tend to cast the light sideways as well as stright down but maybe not as good for head room so maybe take that into consideration.
White walls and light grey floor works wonders.
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Kron
Part of things
Posts: 260 
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Jan 18, 2021 23:32:43 GMT
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What are your thought and plans for strengthening the roof?
My garage is exactly the same structure so I'm hoping to learn from your experiences.
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,971
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Bloody hell those trusses are skinny buggers.............
I wouldn't want to board that out as it is for sure - shame the roof is pitched front to rear rather than side to side but it does mean a lot more usable space up there.
I am not a surveyor or have any qualifications in building so this is just what I'd do in your circumstances because I think it would be fine - I am equally happy to be told what I suggest is totally wrong because then I'd learn something.
I think I'd get some 8 x 2 joists (the garage is a bit long for them really they'd normally span 12 feet max) not sure what your trusses are height wise they look like 4 inches they might be more
I's run them alongside the roof trusses and screw thro joists into the trusses to tie the existing ones to the new joists
I'd then plasterboard the ceiling run any additional lighting wiring along the top of the original trusses and poke out the lighting points through the plasterboard
Lay loft insulation above in the gaps between and then board it out on the joists not the roof trusses
Make a large opening hatch beside the wall so you can access easily and get big bulky stuff in the loft even when a car is in the garage (not really heavy stuff obv)
At least then the space would be cheaper to heat in the winter months and cooler in the summer
Repeat just in case you missed it I have no qualifications in this sort of thing
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,971
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Actually I've just noticed you have some block piers - perfect to brace the other way using joist hangers to link it all together.
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Actually I've just noticed you have some block piers - perfect to brace the other way using joist hangers to link it all together. This is my thought, so I’m glad you’ve mentioned it this way round. I was (hoping) to run 5x 150x50 or similar joists across the width with some jiffy hangers from the walls. I’d run one between each block pier, and one between the brick walls in between (so one between door and pier 1, one between each pier, and one between pier 2 and rear wall). I’d run them under the existing trusses to act as support. Boarding would then be onto the existing trusses, with a hatch access somewhere to one side. The space wouldn’t be used for anything truly heavy, but it would need to take my weight for loading/unloading any boxes that get shoved up there. Happy to take advice from anyone that is clued up on structural stuff! |
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I've got two led batons and they give out plenty of light.
What about building another pair of pier like structures so you can build a mezzanine off those and the existing ones.
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I've got two led batons and they give out plenty of light. What about building another pair of pier like structures so you can build a mezzanine off those and the existing ones. How big is the space that you light with two batons? Are they single or twin? How long? Another pair of piers may be an idea, but i'm certainly no brickie so would really have to get someone in for that. Would there be a benefit? |
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thomfr
Part of things
Trying to assemble the Duett again..
Posts: 694
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Jan 19, 2021 10:10:18 GMT
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I would take the following steps:
1.Get rid of everything not used
2.Hang everything to the walls or on the (future) attic which is not needed daily (sportsbikes etc).
3.Indeed, if possible, garden stuff in a dedicated shed or porch.
4. Paint the walls and ceiling white
5. look at your floor, the garage will not be so empty in the near future so now is the time to add paint, tiles, coating or whatever you fancy.
6. Insulate as good as possible
7. Take care about the electrics, I'm a huge fan of the Led light fixtures which are sold to replace complete fluosent (TL) light units. So not only a tube but the whole unit. Cheap, clean, low power use and just attach the two wires and there is plenty of light.
8. Look at a lot of other small garage (pictures) on this and other sides and on pinterest to get idea's.
Basic Idea I (tried) to follow is keep it light and keep the floor as empty as possible.
Thom
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73' Alfa Giulia Super
64' Volvo Duett
65' Volvo Duett
67' Volvo Amazon 123GT
09' Ford Focus 1.8
20' VW ID4
71' Benelli Motorella
65' Cyrus Speciaal
The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys
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Kron
Part of things
Posts: 260
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Jan 19, 2021 10:49:14 GMT
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Actually I've just noticed you have some block piers - perfect to brace the other way using joist hangers to link it all together. This is my thought, so I’m glad you’ve mentioned it this way round. I was (hoping) to run 5x 150x50 or similar joists across the width with some jiffy hangers from the walls. I’d run one between each block pier, and one between the brick walls in between (so one between door and pier 1, one between each pier, and one between pier 2 and rear wall). I’d run them under the existing trusses to act as support. Boarding would then be onto the existing trusses, with a hatch access somewhere to one side. The space wouldn’t be used for anything truly heavy, but it would need to take my weight for loading/unloading any boxes that get shoved up there. Happy to take advice from anyone that is clued up on structural stuff! What are your thoughts with regards to the diagonal 'stringers' on the top of the trusses? can these be removed once you have replaced them with boarding? I think from memory they probably have lateral restraint straps from the stringers to the wall. If your boarding up to the walls or indeed adding the 150x150 as mentioned would these negate the need for the restraint straps? |
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Jan 19, 2021 11:27:41 GMT
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This is my thought, so I’m glad you’ve mentioned it this way round. I was (hoping) to run 5x 150x50 or similar joists across the width with some jiffy hangers from the walls. I’d run one between each block pier, and one between the brick walls in between (so one between door and pier 1, one between each pier, and one between pier 2 and rear wall). I’d run them under the existing trusses to act as support. Boarding would then be onto the existing trusses, with a hatch access somewhere to one side. The space wouldn’t be used for anything truly heavy, but it would need to take my weight for loading/unloading any boxes that get shoved up there. Happy to take advice from anyone that is clued up on structural stuff! What are your thoughts with regards to the diagonal 'stringers' on the top of the trusses? can these be removed once you have replaced them with boarding? I think from memory they probably have lateral restraint straps from the stringers to the wall. If your boarding up to the walls or indeed adding the 150x150 as mentioned would these negate the need for the restraint straps? Honestly, I hadn't even considered moving them. My view is to leave everything in place that is already there and just add to it. Those diagonals may make overboarding a bit more awkward, but i'd rather not remove things that don't need to be removed. |
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Jan 19, 2021 12:22:22 GMT
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I bought a pack of 20 London brackets from scrwfix and a 8x4 sheet of marine ply that I had ripped into 8x1's. Then made shelves around the garage, has high up as i could. Was about £70 for 32ft of shelving that freed up all my floorspace.  Hopefully this year will see this garage knocked down and rebuilt 1.2m wider with a home office added where the small store is atm. Subject to planning and neighbor not getting too upset 🤦🏼♂️ |
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 12:45:34 GMT by joem83
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Jan 19, 2021 12:23:43 GMT
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Through the wonders of modern technology (and the fact that I’m largely a CAD jockey), I’ve knocked up a quick 3D model as I see it. Floor space is accurate, but pier position and truss sizing may be slightly out. I’ve added the 5x 150x50 joists in roughly the positions I was planning and it doesn’t look quite right. I’m a firm believer in “if it looks right, it is”, and this just doesn’t.   To me, having the front and rear joist in place is a bit overkill. The roof space at these points is minimal, so any loading above would be less so. I understand there may be a benefit in general support though. The two joists off the piers are a given I feel, but I wonder if it would be better to then run two equally spaced ones in the gap between the piers rather than a central one? This would then leave a natural location for a hatch, and also provide more support in the area where there is less existing support - and also at the highest point where it is likely to see the greatest loading. Your thoughts? |
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Kron
Part of things
Posts: 260
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Jan 19, 2021 13:08:30 GMT
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I like the idea of the three joists as two are below the triangulation points and I assume the points of the most transferred load and the third is supporting the joist with the maximum span.
Agree that the joist at either end seems to be overkill and wouldn't be adding much. The joist over the opening may also interfere with the door?
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,971
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Jan 19, 2021 13:14:12 GMT
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What are your thoughts with regards to the diagonal 'stringers' on the top of the trusses? can these be removed once you have replaced them with boarding? I think from memory they probably have lateral restraint straps from the stringers to the wall. If your boarding up to the walls or indeed adding the 150x150 as mentioned would these negate the need for the restraint straps? Honestly, I hadn't even considered moving them. My view is to leave everything in place that is already there and just add to it. Those diagonals may make overboarding a bit more awkward, but i'd rather not remove things that don't need to be removed. I wouldn't board out the roof truss area under the tiles - mainly because if you have a leak you can see it when you are in the loft area - nothing I put up in my loft takes any harm in summer or winter temps and the plaster boarded ceiling with insulation above and loft boarding above that means the temp in the garage is easier to control - cooler in summer and warmer in winter |
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Jan 19, 2021 16:32:11 GMT
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I like the idea of the three joists as two are below the triangulation points and I assume the points of the most transferred load and the third is supporting the joist with the maximum span. Agree that the joist at either end seems to be overkill and wouldn't be adding much. The joist over the opening may also interfere with the door? I've re-jigged this now to drop the outermost joists (easy to drop back in if needed), although I don't think they'll interfere with the door as that is a good chunk below the current truss level. Admittedly i've not measured this but will make sure I do if I am going to put these in place. I've added a further one to the centre section, which would then leave me with a central 'hatch' opening of around 930mm x 530mm. The 530mm is much narrower than i'd like but that is controlled by the existing truss gap. Four joists between the piers/truss triangulation points give me around 955mm joist centres which seems a good spread for the higher roof area. Honestly, I hadn't even considered moving them. My view is to leave everything in place that is already there and just add to it. Those diagonals may make overboarding a bit more awkward, but i'd rather not remove things that don't need to be removed. I wouldn't board out the roof truss area under the tiles - mainly because if you have a leak you can see it when you are in the loft area - nothing I put up in my loft takes any harm in summer or winter temps and the plaster boarded ceiling with insulation above and loft boarding above that means the temp in the garage is easier to control - cooler in summer and warmer in winter I think Kron was referring to the diagonals that sit above the bottom brace of the trusses in each 'end section' rather than the one that runs against the underside of the tiles. I was never planning on boarding under the tiles. So i've had a shuffle with the joists, i've created a space envelope roughly the extents of a MK2 Golf and I've created quick and dirty models of the shelves, roll cab/chest and mocked up a work bench (approx 2m x .75m, with an upstand on each end and to the rear so nothing rolls off). The shelves are as per the current racks that I have, and each one can be split into two sections.....one half would be relocated 'upstairs'. This would give me a good fixed workspace and a place for the vice. This would then be an ideal place to pop a couple of sockets on the wall and a 5ft LED baton directly above. Other sockets would (at the moment) run down the block piers to around mid-height. I'm wondering if two 6ft twin LED batons running along the length would be sufficient for the rest of the space?   |
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Last Edit: Jan 19, 2021 16:35:14 GMT by cliveyp
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Jan 20, 2021 12:58:28 GMT
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With the 5x2s that should be ok (by eye) structurally with the proviso you don't stick a massive load up there, the usual things like bikes Christmas things suitcases will be fine, just not axles etc.
Those fink style trusses are an absolute minimum and at maximum spacing (which it looks like they are) designed only to hold the load of the roof, if you get up there you will feel them distort under your weight.
You could always double the 5x2s if you felt better about it.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:24:17 GMT
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With the 5x2s that should be ok (by eye) structurally with the proviso you don't stick a massive load up there, the usual things like bikes Christmas things suitcases will be fine, just not axles etc. Those fink style trusses are an absolute minimum and at maximum spacing (which it looks like they are) designed only to hold the load of the roof, if you get up there you will feel them distort under your weight. You could always double the 5x2s if you felt better about it. Thanks. Sounds about right...the builder was adamant that the roof area was not to be used for storage as the trusses were designed for the roof and snowloading only. Do you think the 4x joists across between the block piers is enough, or is it still worth adding the extra ones at each end (between pier and door/pier and rear wall)? As for stored things, we're looking at the usual old toy cars, light camping things (not the 20kg tent), old books/photos etc. So (hopefully) we'd be all good! |
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