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Sept 30, 2020 12:17:43 GMT
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So, imagine that a week ago you bought a "new" car. You've jumped through the bureaucratic hoops, paid you road tax, your extortionate insurance and the DVLA is informed......
Then, barely a week later, you get post. Demands with menaces from councils (yes, plural!) accusing you of traffic infringements with, apparently photographic evidence of your sins.......
But wait.... Cambridge? Where even is Cambridge? It's not round 'ere. You haven't been to Cambridge.... or even Chelmsford. In fact, looking at the dates and times of the alleged offences, one took place about the time that you saw the car for the first time.... in Exeter. More than 4 hours away as google flies....... At this point in time it would still have been in the previous owners name because you hadn't even agreed to buy it yet.....
And how has your new car been photographed in a Chelmsford bus lane, when it was actually more than 4 hours away in a works car park in Devon on the first day it took you to work?
The photos are quite convincing. Same make and model, same colour. Same reg number. Your car has an evil twin...... A worrying thought strikes.... perhaps your car is the evil twin...... perhaps the nice old couple you bought it from are actually scammers...... You rush out to check the VIN. But it's ok... the VIN matches your shiney new V5.
So how can your car be in two places at once? Simples...... some dishonest curse word saw the reg on Facebook market place and thought.... hey, that's handy, that's just like my car (or the one I've just swiped).
But what do you do about this? Obviously you have to write to the councils explaining why you have no intention of paying them anything. But a crime has been committed..... and this may only be the tip of the iceberg.
One might think the police would be interested. Devon police however it seems would struggle to care less. Crime no? curse word off son, that'll curse word our stats and it's nothing to do with us. Should you try the Cambridgeshire and Essex constabularies where the evil twin seems to be operating? What about the DVLA? The subject is taboo on their website. No mention. Zip. Zero. Nada.
You're on your own apparently. Guilty until you can (hopefully) prove your innocence......
So what should you do?
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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autojumbled
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 221
Club RR Member Number: 106
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Car ID cloned.....autojumbled
@autojumbled
Club Retro Rides Member 106
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Sept 30, 2020 13:02:23 GMT
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Write back to the councils and tell them its not you then prepare all your evidence:
* receipt for purchase
* maybe photo evidence you took on the same days of alleged offences? (with time stamped metadata)
* evidence it was in your work's car park?
* anything else.
Wait for councils to come knocking and provide the info....
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Car ID cloned.....fr€$h&m1nt¥
@freshandminty
Club Retro Rides Member 99
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Sept 30, 2020 13:06:38 GMT
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Redirect copies of all the post / fines to the police. Whatever they think cloning number plates is very much their problem.
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,833 
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Car ID cloned.....jamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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Sept 30, 2020 13:31:45 GMT
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Get a cheapo personal plate transferred onto it sharpish ?
Also report it to the DVLA sharpish ?
Complain loudly to the Police about criminal activity and them not being interested - cloning is a front for stolen cars, no insurance un-licenced drivers etc. etc.
James
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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2020 13:32:57 GMT by jamesd1972
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,829
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Car ID cloned.....stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Sept 30, 2020 16:53:26 GMT
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I had a weirder one donkeys years ago where somebody had registered a car at my house (no idea how they got the V5, must be a scam via the post man) and proceeded to rack up thousands of pounds of parking fines in Leeds City centre to the point we had bailiffs at the door even after contacting the council every single time we got a letter. After spotting he used the same 4 spots I found one with no CCTV coverage then after 3 days of passing by I spotted the car then went to work with a auto centre punch and put all the windows through and added some body sculpturing with my steelies. Last we heard of it.
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Sept 30, 2020 19:30:04 GMT
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There is a thread on another forum I’m on that is very similar , car is almost identical apart from a few features
One has chrome trim around the windows the other has a shadow pack so gloss black surrounds , ask for images and check them thoroughly
Years ago I was using my father in laws Peugeot 308 for a while, one day old bill knocked on his door saying his car had been used in a serious hit and run in Newcastle , he told them where I lived and they came a knocking.
Had a chat with them advised where myself and the car was, working in Peterborough , the following day they came and viewed the gate control cctv from work , watched the car enter the car park around 830 and leave again at 530 I never heard from them again
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Sept 30, 2020 20:47:45 GMT
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I had the same my car seen driving in birmingham same car same colour same reg but i had my car parked on my drive on cctv so wrote back to dvla including a picture from cctv they then told me i need a crime number as my plate has been cloned so off i go to local police station thats been closed down due to cut backs i have to go to the library where there is a desk with a police person sat at it for you to report crimes ...but only every other day and i was on the wrong day so back i go the next day with all my letters and proof for the very nice none police looking person to tell me i cant report it only dvla can report it because they own ?? the registrations so its there reg that has been clowned not mine ....my head explodes..and i write another letter telling the dvla what the police said and wait ... there reply was ..sorry clerical error. Utter curse word they sent me the picture of the car in birmingham how is that clerical error what they mean is we would have screwed you if you hadnt had cctv of your drive but we cant be bothered to chase down an actual criminal.
Best of luck i would go and try and get a crime number or a letter from the person on the desk that you have tried to get a crime number and put it in a letter saying your cars been clowned.
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Sept 30, 2020 21:57:14 GMT
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The cloned car is likely to be being used for some sort of criminal activity, usually as a "Pool car" for local burglaries or drugs offences. I would suggest from now on putting a specifically shaped and distinctive sticker in both the front and rear windows of your own car so the clone will show as obviously not being your vehicle. The Police are probably a bit rubbish about it because the department you're going to is general policing. If any of the initial documents come from a Police Central Ticket office (speeding fines for example) you need to write back to them explaining the situation. Each office should have Enquiry Officers (note that these are Police Staff, not officers - there is a difference), and they should be able to dig a little deeper for you. They are usually old school ex-police officers who love delving into stuff and getting results. What should happen is they will then liaise with the Police National Computer system team and ask to put a marker on your registration, and with a bit of luck the perpetrators will get picked up because their car will ping up every time they go near an ANPR camera or a traffic car. If it's just Council stuff then I would have no idea where to start. Couple of links for contact details for you: www.cambs.police.uk/information-and-services/Road-safety/Cameras-tickets-and-collisionswww.essex.police.uk/contact/af/contact-us/us/contact-us/contact-the-speed-camera-team/ |
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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2020 22:02:53 GMT by mrbounce
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Thanks to all for you comments and thoughts. It’s my sons car and he’s been struggling to contact the DVLA as it seems to be phone or nothing and their phone hours more or less match his work hours. I’ll try ringing them tomorrow. I may also try reporting to the police in the areas the offences occurred.
He has written to the councils concerned and we’ll see what shakes out.
Thanks
Nick
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Last Edit: Oct 1, 2020 20:29:31 GMT by vitesseefi: iPhone autoscramble
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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I rang the DVLA today. Waste of my time. You can only report it by post. But of course you have to ring them (30 mins on hold!) to discover this as there is nothing on their website on the subject, or nothing I can find anyway, and I've been looking.
The attitude was that it wasn't really their problem...... talk to the police. Strange. Pretty sure they usually claim that registration marks always remain their property ultimately, so you'd think they'd be interested in fraudulent use - if only because it's costing them VED! I will be commenting on that in the letter I write.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Ok thanks. Not found that before. This it what it has to say on the subject "10 What to do if your vehicle has been ‘cloned’ If you’re receiving fines or charges you’re not responsible for because someone else is using the registration number from your vehicle, your vehicle may have been cloned. Cloning involves copying the identity of a similar (not-stolen) vehicle already on the road. Criminals find an exact make, model and colour of the car they have stolen, and use the same registration number on the stolen vehicle to make it look legal. If you suspect your vehicle has been cloned: • Contact the police so they can try to trace and prosecute the culprit to prevent this illegal activity from continuing. • Return any fines or letters to whoever issued them, along with any evidence you have to prove your case. • Write to us at DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1ZZ, giving us the crime reference number the police gave you. We will keep a record of the matter for future reference." Not all that useful really as the police make it fairly difficult and time consuming to report. We've done 4 forces so far and mostly they don't seem to care. Essex deserve an honourable mention for getting back within a couple of hours and actually offering some half useful advice (cover your car in stickers!). None are offering the crime number that the DVLA seem to want. As for the DVLA.... we shall see, but I don't suppose much will happen and and what does likely to be slow. Meanwhile, the offences keep coming in  Currently our policy is to report them all to whatever police forces area the latest "offence" has occurred. Trouble is, once you get lovely people like Parking Eye involved, they probably aren't going to give a stuff whether it was you or not, they just want the money and you are the name they have. Yes... we had a demand from them today. Nick |
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Car ID cloned.....Phil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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I’d be putting a £99 NI plate on it today if I were you.
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Seems the bandit vehicle crashed and wound up in a police impound yard. Presumably the driver did a runner.
Sir had a text from his insurer asking why he hadn't reported his accident..... so he rang them to explain that he hadn't had one! Photo required to show his car safe in the works car park and they were happy. We'd quite like closure from whichever police force finished up with the car - if only so we have something to wave at those with their hands out for money - but may never get it.
Hopefully that's the end of it provided there aren't any other demands still in the system.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Car ID cloned.....fr€$h&m1nt¥
@freshandminty
Club Retro Rides Member 99
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Seems the bandit vehicle crashed and wound up in a police impound yard. Presumably the driver did a runner. Sir had a text from his insurer asking why he hadn't reported his accident..... so he rang them to explain that he hadn't had one! Photo required to show his car safe in the works car park and they were happy. We'd quite like closure from whichever police force finished up with the car - if only so we have something to wave at those with their hands out for money - but may never get it. Hopefully that's the end of it provided there aren't any other demands still in the system. Nick At least they got their comeuppance. Would be great if your son receives their insurance pay out  |
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This happened to me with a van I bought,I started to get parking fines through the door for 2 areas in London. I thought I had nothing better to do than phone up the 2 councils and tell them that I live in Scotland and had been at my work on both the times the parking offences had occurred, but that wasn't good enough for them so I had to pet the photos from them which I compared to my van which luckily for me the van in the pictures was a long wheel base high top connect with windows in the back doors and mines was a short wheel base with no rear windows. So I had to send pictures of my van and eventually I got letters from both basically saying that they would let me off this time which I thought was well funny as you could clearly see it was a different van. Also I had to report that my van had been cloned to police Scotland who gave me a crime number and they reported it to DVLA who sent me a letter to confirm this and I also had to contact the Metropolitan police in London to report it as the crimes were taking place on their patch and they also gave me a crime number, it all got sorted in the end it just took a few phone calls and a few emails.
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Currently our policy is to report them all to whatever police forces area the latest "offence" has occurred.
