lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
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Sept 17, 2020 17:51:24 GMT
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Afternoon folks. Chinese motorbikes get a lot of stick and to be fair, a lot of said stick is fair, apt and has duly stuck. However. I've found myself in possession of such a vehicle. It came about how most of these things do: A mate bought it, I gave it some faint praise, he put it up for sale and offered it to me, I refuse on the grounds of price, delicious 'mates rates' price thrown on the table - I own it Its a Lexmoto Tempest 125 in the retro style flat tracker / scrambler flavour. Its an air cooled single, 2 valve overhead cam design which I believe to be based on the Honda XL architecture of the 70s and 80s. Or it could be Suzuki based. Or indigenous to China. Not sure on that one. Being a 2018 model it is fuel injected, using a single denso injector with a throttle body behind it. It has a throttle position sensor on the throttle body and a lambda sensor in the exhaust downpipe. It also has OBD2 diagnostics port. It has a 9.5: compression ratio and is rated at 9hp. It also seems under geared to me. Peak torque is at around 6k revs and peak power is at 8k revs but in the 5th (top) gear its indicating 8250 revs when you get it to 60mph. I'm thinking about going down 2 or 3 teeth on the back sprocket just to bring the revs down slightly. It makes some reasonable thumpy noises and is peppy up to about 50 but then it really tails off. I'm only 10 stone or so but its still a chore to get it to do 60 or 65. So far in the pursuit of ultimate power I've checked and set the valve clearances, checked and gapped the plug (very clean with no trace of soot or carbon), removed the silencer/restrictor from the airbox. It seems a little bit more free in the midrange but its still no different really at the top end. So what's next? I've had the exhaust off and it doesn't look to be the most restrictive thing in the world. There is a ring of weld a couple of inches from the inlet which reduces the diameter about 20% so I plan on getting the files out and removing that to restore the nominal diameter. I've not had the throttle body or inlet stub off yet but I will see if there is anything in the way of casting defects that can be smoothed and port matched. Has anyone managed to do anything with the injection on these things? It can't be the most complicated system in the world. I just want it to squirt a bit more pez in the pot pretty please. I just want to find a couple of horsepowers, perhaps bring it up to the 11/12 brake that most 4 stroke 125s seem to chuck out. I know most people will say just get another bike or chuck another engine in but that isn't really the point and it's not always about the easy route - that's why we hang around this parish and do difficult to justify things to obscure bits of metal. Any help, advice or banter would be just grand. Andy
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Sept 17, 2020 18:09:56 GMT
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They're usually built as a restricted 125 not as a full power 125 that has been throttled to get it learner legal. You could try going up one tooth on the front sprocket to bring the revs down (front sprocket is cheaper than rear). Otherwise without spending considerable time and effort there's not usually a lot more to find from them without going for new cams and a big bore kit.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Sept 17, 2020 18:41:45 GMT
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They're usually built as a restricted 125 not as a full power 125 that has been throttled to get it learner legal. You could try going up one tooth on the front sprocket to bring the revs down (front sprocket is cheaper than rear). Otherwise without spending considerable time and effort there's not usually a lot more to find from them without going for new cams and a big bore kit. Cheers for the reply mate. Yea I had heard that they are designed to be the output they are produced at rather than restricted. However, being based on some kind of mainstream Japanese engine I can't help but reason there is a little bit of something left in the pot to be extracted. I'll go down a tooth on the front sprocket as you suggest. I've seen big bore kits advertised mega cheap for lexmotos (around 140 quid) that take it to 155cc or something like that. The legalities are fine as I have a full bike licence and this is insured through my trade policy who accept modifications. If a cam was available I'd give that a go? My issue with the big bore kits I've seen is that they don't say specifically if it works with this particular Lexmoto 125 engine. Lexmoto basically being a broker of all sorts of different Japanese products use a multitude of different engines with the same displacement. Also, the kits come with a carb. Mine has electric injection squirtidge. Retrofit a carb you say? It's a possibility, but the injection works well and there must be a way of tweaking it?
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Sept 17, 2020 18:51:29 GMT
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Up on the front sprocket not down for lower revs. Down on the rear will give the same result.
The Japanese 4 stroke 125s are similarly difficult to do anything with, you could try cleaning the porting up a little and maybe fitting bigger valves if you have access to engineering facilties.
If you measure up the existing piston and crack case mouth then you should be able to work out if a big bore kit will fit
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2020 18:52:39 GMT by dodgerover
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Sept 17, 2020 19:22:42 GMT
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Yea, casting correction to let it be its best self is my first port of call. Blueprinting a 9hp Chinese engine, who would have thought it haha.
If I can see one of the big bore kits in the flesh I'd have a good idea if it fits or not.
I still think the stumbling block is the injection though, and the inlet system seems tiny for a 125
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Frankenhealey
Club Retro Rides Member
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death
Posts: 3,875
Club RR Member Number: 15
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Sept 17, 2020 19:46:06 GMT
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Tales of the Volcano Lair hereFrankenBug - Vulcan Power hereThe Frankenhealey here
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93fxdl
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Posts: 1,999
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Sept 18, 2020 20:23:29 GMT
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The engine is usually a Honda cg125 clone, a 150 big bore is the easy/cheap starting point, mine cost about 25 quid, silencers may be restrictive, there is not a great deal of go faster bits available in the uk, they are hugely popular in Brazil and have a huge tuning scene there, about the only place you Can get cams. Can get a 250 version of the engine, also a weird big bore can be done using a Honda stationery engine piston. Many of the Cheap engines run weak for emissions so richening up can gain some power Ttfn Glenn
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Last Edit: Sept 18, 2020 20:54:36 GMT by 93fxdl
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93fxdl
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Sept 18, 2020 20:37:13 GMT
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Sept 20, 2020 8:51:58 GMT
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Must be somone doing aftermarket ecus for these? That seems to be the sticking point to me. You need control
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Sept 20, 2020 11:22:14 GMT
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Built for domestic markets where the ability to get six people and some hay bales on and do 100mpg is more important than actually any real performance. I love the way i've seen local ones with the worlds loudest exhaust can on which makes it sound like thunder but still go like a bicycle
I do miss the days of porting,up-jeting, spannies and gearing to get your little two stroke wailing like a banshee and going pop every 1000 miles !
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Last Edit: Sept 20, 2020 11:23:43 GMT by duggers
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Sept 20, 2020 12:25:05 GMT
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19mm inlet whilst small isn't that restrictive, given the application, they're probably trying to get torque rather than top end power. Have a look at the 4 stroke tuning section of 49cc scoot forum for ideas. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/The ultimate CG 125 engines used to be around 220cc+ using either the ATC piston or generator piston and playing with the stroke, from memory at this point you have either already moved the barrel mounting studs (and oil feed) out or the liner is literally wafer thin.
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,337
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Sept 22, 2020 11:07:32 GMT
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OOracing do a 300c drop in lump for the Skyteam Ace, if it's the same derivative of Chinese engine that will give you 20+rwhp (allegedly)
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Sept 29, 2020 23:06:15 GMT
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OOracing do a 300c drop in lump for the Skyteam Ace, if it's the same derivative of Chinese engine that will give you 20+rwhp (allegedly) Everything I saw on this OOracing seemed to be relating to the honda stepthrough / Cub type engine with the horizontal cylinder. Mine is similar in appearance (exactly the same as the first image, even down to colour actually!) to the CG125 XL125 vertical cylinder engines. Mine is definitely OHC though (had the rocker cover off) unlike the CG. 93fxdl - any info on your 150 big bore kit and where to get it? If it will fit my lump i'd consider it, although it really must need more fuel somehow. The lack of any colour at all on the plug makes me think the EFI is setup quite weak, as was mentioned, for emission reasons. Someone must do a plug in cheat box or know some trickery!
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
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Club RR Member Number: 84
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Sept 30, 2020 7:09:17 GMT
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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You are an absolute diamond! thanks mate, I'll have a look into it all through them
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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I had a Lexmoto for a while. Re-jetting the carb, air filter, exhaust and trimming off excess bodywork made ZERO difference to the performance. There ain't no substitute for cubic centimeters!
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Turn the bars upside down and ride it lying flat on the tank with your feet on the pillion pegs...
That was my preferred method on my '82 low comp CG125.
I was looking into a 125 to commute on earlier this year and when looking at options for making Chinese 125s more A- road friendly rapidly concluded that I'd be better off with a 250, so went and bought a 400... So can't really offer any sensible advice.
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I wonder about fitting a small turbo?
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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I bought my 150 kit from Amazon, but prices seem to have gone silly, try searching eBay for cg 150 kit Ttfn Glenn
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Best thing to do would be strip it and measure the piston up to see if you could make a big bore piston fit
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