elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Ive either lost it or someone borrowed it but I cant find my old timing gun..
I have had it for years anyway so could do with an upgrade.
Can anybody recommend a good one and good value ?
Is it worth getting the digital ones that show engine speeds and you can set the timing on ?
Any advice appreciated
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I find it useful to have one where you can set the static advance on the gun. My engines only have timing marks on the belt cover, and they're really difficult to find in good condition, so I have to make a timing mark. Having a gun that allows me to set it at, say, 8 degrees btdc, means my home-made mark only needs TDC. It also means I can alter the gun until the mark is spot on tdc, and use that to read off what the current static timing actually is.
Can't offer a make, unfortunately, as my decent one is on a Crypton machine.
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Aug 11, 2020 11:28:54 GMT
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I purchased the Sealey TL85 I’m very happy with it. Good strong light output even on a bright day it connects up to the battery which is handy as well. Also you can set the advance. I got mine off eBay mine was new though.
All the best.
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Daily 2014 VW Passat & 1995 Vauxhall Cavalier CDX Summer months 1986 Vauxhall Cavalier L Project 1984 Vauxhall Cavalier GL
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 11, 2020 13:06:02 GMT
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Many thanks and good advice
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,981
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Aug 11, 2020 13:30:28 GMT
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 13, 2020 16:07:33 GMT
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Timing GunChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 16, 2020 21:52:35 GMT
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Some good suggestions.
A decent timing gun lets you see the dynamic advance. This can make a big difference to how the engine feels. The gun can show you
-Timing scatter (i.e if the advance mechanism is shot) -Timing advance (whether the timing moves as you rev the engine).
Timing is one of the biggest influencers on engine power. How much you ask?
Engine Masters did an AFR and timing showdown.
On an engine that made 430BHP in a decent state of tune, I think the following were the results.
Timing-all in -10 degrees : 300BHP ; this run actually have flames coming out of the exhaust, which was cited as one reason for harming turbo life potentially. -21 degrees : 370BHP -35 degrees : 430BHP
You could argue you could just lock the dizzy out and have 35 degrees but that can cause low speed driveability issues, starting problems (kickback) and potential knock issues at low rpm under load. With the above knowledge and the 123 programmable dizzy, the 2CV I owned was a lovely thing.
The fuelling made a difference but nowhere near as bad as the timing was, and that was from an AFR sweep ranging from 9:1 to13:1.
The moral of this? Static timing will only get you part of the way, as will tired ignition components. It has to be the right timing. Des Hammil's book really is great here.
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Last Edit: Aug 16, 2020 21:53:21 GMT by ChasR
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,981
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Aug 17, 2020 12:27:26 GMT
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The moral of this? Static timing will only get you part of the way, as will tired ignition components. It has to be the right timing. Des Hammil's book really is great here. When I swapped my Saab V4's points ignition with a VAG Hall system, the idle rpm went from 800 to 1200 with the same static timing and unaltered carb settings, so yes, fresh ignition components make a lot of difference! And I agree, get Des Hammill's book, it's great indeed.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 17, 2020 13:29:23 GMT
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Very good advice many thanks.... I know Dave Walker ( emerald ecu's ) say timing and ignition are behind most faults on car engines. Still not decided on which one yet !!
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Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 13:31:19 GMT by elfman
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Aug 17, 2020 13:32:00 GMT
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Very good advice many thanks.... I know Dave Walker ( emerald ecu's ) say timing and ignition are behind most faults on car engines. Still not decided on which one yet !! Most carburettor faults are electrical........
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 17, 2020 18:56:46 GMT
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Yes i believe that's one of Dave's sayings lol I am also looking at the 123 dizzy for my Amazon , I've ordered the AccuSpark Timing Lamp / Light, If i cant get it to run properly ill get the 123 dizzy soon Many thanks everyone
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Last Edit: Aug 17, 2020 19:23:38 GMT by elfman
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 19, 2020 18:54:00 GMT
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It arrived today good bit of kit for the price, had a quick go and the timing was about 10 degrees..
Will check a few more things tomorrow then take it for a run if its not raining cats and dogs ...
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 20, 2020 11:33:04 GMT
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This amazon is driving me around the bend... I got a timing gun, set it at the correct settings in the book ( it was slightly out) Drove it today and the damn thing is slightly worse. I had the exact same problem last year it runs ok until you hit a long hill, you would swear its not getting enough fuel, but checked all that and even fitted a new fuel tank to get rid of the crud in the old one.. problem still there.
I then changed the points, condenser, plugs etc and it was fine...
But a few weeks ago without doing anything too it the problem returned..On a long hill it just goes flat and missing....again you swear it was fuel..
But it only went when I changed the ignition parts.... i think its something to do with sitting around for so long during covid, but i did start it every week and warmed it up fully.... It cant be points and plugs again as its not done many miles since!!!
Something is breaking down under load ? I've had coils go before but usually they just stop....I'm really getting pi***d off with it now..
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Last Edit: Aug 20, 2020 11:37:40 GMT by elfman
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Aug 21, 2020 18:30:01 GMT
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Try checking the shaft for true and bearings for wear in your distributor.
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Aug 21, 2020 19:03:06 GMT
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Check the advance weights, mechanism, and mounting plate for wear. Converting to distributor less ignition is one of the best things you can do to an old car
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 21, 2020 19:45:34 GMT
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Cheers yes its the next thing to do on the list but i'm keeping a dizzy but might got for the 123 as it also does not look out of place on a classic.. that's as far as ill electronic.
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Aug 21, 2020 20:24:10 GMT
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Cheers yes its the next thing to do on the list but i'm keeping a dizzy but might got for the 123 as it also does not look out of place on a classic.. that's as far as I'll electronic. Remove the distributor if you can, and fit the coil pack in the same place. That will fool most people because the plug leads will still look 'stock'. If the distributor is needed for other things(like driving the oil pump on V6 Fords), then cut it down so the coil pack fits. There are lots of electronic parts on cars that really shouldn't be there at all. Control of the fuel and ignition are not on that list.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,981
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Aug 21, 2020 21:00:47 GMT
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If I'm not mistaken an Amazon has a Bosch JFU4-type distributor. You can convert them to a Hall system with parts from e.g. a Volvo 240 or a VW Golf distributor, see the link I posted earlier. My article is about Saab/ Ford V4 dizzies, but yours should be similar enough for it to be useful as a guide. Or maybe there are even Volvo Hall distributors that are a direct fit?
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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elfman
Part of things
Posts: 393
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Aug 21, 2020 22:49:22 GMT
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It now looks as if i have a 2ltr dizzy on my 1.8 engine ! Volvo fitted a few different types so that's something i have to look into.
Sorry boys i appreciate your help and advice and I'm sure it works fine but you might as well be speaking Russian.... I have no idea what a "Hall" system is...I did look at the link and the PDF and that's way to much fiddling around for my liking and patience, i also don't want to run anything with bits from this car and that car. One of the reason I have gone back to running a classic is to get away from all the electronic cr*p that's fitted to a lot of modern cars simply I hate it.
What i want to do first is try and work out why I have the miss-fire and loss of power (hopefully it is the advance weights so thanks for that advice) I have a few other ideas as well now.
When I up-rate the engine, better head, twin SU carbs, exhaust and cam etc all old school stuff, i "might" fit a bought electronic ignition kit and go for something like a complete 123 dizzy with everything built in, and only a couple of wires to connect up, or go for something like Lumenition which i run for years with no problems..again easy and simple to fit.
Ill leave the Hall ones you recommended to people who have more patience and understanding of the system than i do... but thanks again for the advice..
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,981
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No worries, Bosch Hall ignition is nothing but one of the many options out there. It's your car, your hobby, so up to you what approach you choose. 👍
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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