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Sept 5, 2020 23:31:10 GMT
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I'm a fan of your writing style as much as your cars and am enjoying this thread.
How about giving the starter another try now there are only 2 pistons stuck? Maybe double up on batteries and give it 24V briefly? Would that not apply more torque than a breaker bar?
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Sept 6, 2020 10:48:46 GMT
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I can't remember if you have tried it or not but what about an ATF/ diesel mix into those 2 cylinders? You could build up a retaining wall with plasticine or something to keep it in the correct place with them being at TDC?
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Sept 6, 2020 13:36:46 GMT
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Don't forget with that setup the crank is turning the torus case, primary oil pump, you're turning the 1st epicyclic in reduction (1st gear) then spinning the driving torus when you try to turn the crank.
While not excessive, that's still an extra 20-30 lbft right there, possibly more with no oil pressure in the gearbox.
Phil
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Sept 6, 2020 15:42:51 GMT
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thank you all for the great suggestions , Phil is that still true of a hydramatic with a fluid coupling flywheel ,not a torque converter? is there a gear lever position that would create least drag ? i did an experiment , i clamped a big end in the vice , bolted on the cap , hand tight , and knocked the tab back up ,  and tried to see if i could undo it with a ring spanner ,with the tab still up...  hmmmm. next i put on the other bolt and tab ,but i torqued this up to 45 lbs ft .. then tried to undo it ...  so that looks maybe possible , bearing in mind these tabs are old and have been knocked down once before . regards robert |
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Sept 6, 2020 16:17:16 GMT
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thank you all for the great suggestions , Phil is that still true of a hydramatic with a fluid coupling flywheel ,not a torque converter? is there a gear lever position that would create least drag ? regards robert No, that's mechanically how it's coupled. The "dual range" that you have is essentially the mk. 2 version of my gearbox- it's the same body with a different valve block and a few minor revisions to allow it to handle higher torque. From memory the RR version shares internals with the big Cadillac V8 ones and are good for about 350hp and 450lb/ft. With no fluid pressure there's a full disconnect between the rear axle and the engine at the fluid coupling; you park the car in R to stop it from moving (that should engage the reverse pawl, and 3rd gear engages via spring pressure when the thing's not running do 3rd + reverse = locked up for park). So, in essence right now the gear position lever has no effect on the engine side of the transmission. Phil |
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Sept 6, 2020 19:20:29 GMT
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wow some big torque numbers there phil , i think it my be the case that the sapphire mk2 box runs lower line pressure ,than the rolls , so has a lower trq capability , i would like to increase line pressure , but cannot find a transpak for it .
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Sept 6, 2020 19:25:14 GMT
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Last Edit: Sept 6, 2020 19:30:08 GMT by ivanhoew
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Torque capability has little to do with line pressure in this case- the innards of the clutch pack do though and the bigger ones run 6 locating dowels. Mine is good for 250/300 and it only has 3 dowels per clutch, but each clutch has more friction rings.
If it has the standard GM data plate (driver's side) it'll be blue for the low torque version, green for the high torque version, that being the easiest identifier externally.
Heavy yes. Stout, yes. Different yes.
Phil
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excellent info Thank you Phil .i will get under with my rag and wd40 ,and find the badge , may just be a RR one though.
re line pr....i had understood that the oil pressure kept the clutch packs ,and bands ,loaded ,so the higher the pressure the greater resistance to slip ,and so the higher trq capacity ? bit like the pressure plate on a car clutch ,heavier=stronger hold.
regards
robert
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Sept 7, 2020 12:13:36 GMT
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The design of the clutch packs and grab bands is pretty good. Unless you have a faulty seal or something causing excessive leakage of oil, the standard line pressure is enough to clamp things solid, so much so that the weak point is the dowels that the clutches drive the driven portion of the pack, rather than the pack slipping...
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Last Edit: Sept 7, 2020 12:18:31 GMT by PhilA
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Sept 7, 2020 13:12:19 GMT
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ah gotcha , thank you .
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Sept 7, 2020 20:09:16 GMT
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Well alroighty . Today went quite well . i realised , i might be able to get at the upper tabs..  see red arrow .^^^^^ if i put an edge on my crowbar ,and attacked from the side .so ..  and voila ..  not sure if it shows but that's the tab half off ...  And that's the bolts on that one done , the other was a repeat , and, after i had overcome my surprise and had a little lie down ,all was well . Then i tried to knock the pistons out , no.4 was happy to slide out with a little persuasion, no.3 however raised up its ugly head ,and yea verily ,as LL would say , twas the devils piston sneering at my attempts to free it off .. One thing to note at this point is ,the crank now spins freely , and i was able to pop out nos.5 and 2 .which i did hoping their good example may strike shame into no.3 , and cause it to give up the fight , and turn its back on it satan loving ways ...er... That'll be a "no" then . so i spent a fair while under the car with my extension bashing away , to no avail , except a bit of ally came off the piston , so that maybe a dead un any way , then i whacked it downwards with a bit of mahogany and hammer , no movement , sprayed it up under its skirts #innap , and all in all.... it WOULD.NOT.MOVE. finally i thought well if its dead its dead , so i got a lump off alloy 3"x2" solid bar , and welted the top again , and stuff me , it went down about 1/2 and inch ,  i thought ooookkkkk , now lets get under and knock it outaa the park ...er no... Still won't move, but now its also a half inch lower....POX. To cheer myself up i took a pic of the Cretaceous period remnants of a forgotten world...  There are ,actually, some rings in there that move ! who knew !! tomorrow it may be Semtex or hole saw down the middle of the new BARSTARD MK2 piston from hell. regards robert |
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The Temptressjohnthesparky
@johnthesparky
Club Retro Rides Member 6
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Sept 7, 2020 20:13:13 GMT
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In the words of Meatloaf..... 5 out of six ain’t bad!! Ooh.... Ooh, ok I’ll get my coat then  |
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Sept 7, 2020 21:55:01 GMT
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Good news on the freely spinning things.
Enough persuasion and potions should see 2 free.
Phil
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Sept 7, 2020 23:18:55 GMT
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What do you mean you had to have a lie down? You’ve been doing all this banging on your back*
*thats what she said
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Given the jammediness of them they don't look that bad. I expected massive rust pits where the rings had sat as well.
Keep going...
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Sept 8, 2020 14:30:16 GMT
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do you have an SDS hammer drill and a spade bit or similar... with a bit of steel plate above/protecting the piston the repeated impacts might rattle it down
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Re drills..... do you remember those big v twin compressors , mounted on the back of a blue and white Tarmac tractor ,an international 2276 i think it was , then a long thick hose to a big pneumatic digger ,creating big holes in the motorway concrete ? Well that's the sort of force i think it would need to get this piston out , trouble is i cannot jack the car up high enough to get one under there .  |
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If you cut out the piston CROWN, leaving enough to seat a block of wood on, would it flex / deform enough to knock out ?
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Last Edit: Sept 9, 2020 8:34:18 GMT by westbay
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I,d be tepmted to get a tin of pipe freeze and empty it on top of the piston.
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