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During lockdown I've built a Shed/Summerhouse to relieve the pressure for space on my Garage. Time has come to hitch it up to electric supply. I initially planned to use a spare MCB in the House CU, run some 4.5 T&E to the Shed where I'd fit a small CU and from there provide two circuits, one for a few double sockets and one for lighting. Having done some searching it appears I could be over engineering things. I'm not expecting to run anything heavy duty from the Shed, basic power tools etc, welder will remain safely in the garage and it appears 2.5mm is good for 20A. I've also seen it suggested that there's no need for a second CU, a simple isolator (Cooker switch) would be fine and the lights could be a simple fused spur off it.
I'm not concerned about spending to do it right, but equally see no point Gold plating the job either. How would other RR readers tackle the job?
Thanks
Sean
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Armoured cable (if running anywhere externally) from a spare breaker in existing board. Make sure this breaker is less than the max sustainable load for the cable. New board in shed with separate fuses for a ring and lighting circuit. A new metal bodied garage consumer unit is about £30, you could probably get an old stock plastic one for less but it won't comply with current regs (no less safe though in my opinion) Don't forget the armoured cable needs the external wire protection earthed.
No reason you couldn't do it the way you have suggested though as long as adequate protection in the way of fusing is in place. You would need to run the wire to the fuse switched lighting spur in the same thickness wire used in the main feed to the shed, don't be tempted to feed the spur with the 1mm sq you would normally use for a lighting circuit.
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A lot depends upon whether you wish your installation to be completely legal or just want it to work. If the distance from the nearest live feed is not too great you could simply run a heavy duty extension cable to a multi board in the shed. I've been running a milking machine and a couple of lights like this quite successfully for many years. You may need to shroud the cabling so goats can't chew on it.
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Thanks both, I'm wanting a fully compliant solution.
Did consider extension cable option but most of the effort is running/protecting the cable. Once that's done the incremental effort to do a proper job is minimal. Where cable is external I can contain it in Galv trunking so assuming I don't need SWA in that case. Trunking will also be used to carry extension of the House alarm system.
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Hi, the size of the cable is dictated by the distance of the run to the shed to some extent, to offset any volt drop.
Colin
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As mentioned above, the ideal cable to use would be an armoured cable (SWA), you could use other types of cable provided they are adequatly protected and also if exposed that they are UV stable. Putting a cable in galvanised trunking would work but you need to be careful that it doesn't end up full of water.
Personally I would use an SWA whether buried or cleated to a wall/fence etc.
Next you need to consider protection to the circuit, you must make sure that the circuit breaker feeding it is rated at less than the cable, this is where it gets tricky, there are many factors that affect cable rating so you need to consider not just what cable you use but how you install it. For example if you use a 2.5mm2 PVC SWA its rating would be 28A if clipped direct, 31A if on a tray or in free air and 29A if buried. Other types of cable will of course have different ratings.
You also need to consider the grouping of the circuit (i.e. how many there are together, whether is passes through any thermal insulation, what the ambient temperature of the spaces its running through are (For example if it runs with the heating pipes and they arn't insulated you need to consider this).
This all sounds complicated and it is but in general terms if you use a 2.5mm2 PVC/SWA (ideally 3 core with the third core as earth) and it runs on its own (not grouped), no thermal insulation and no ambient temperature issues they you should be fine with a 20A MCB (I would use a type C if you can).
You can then run this to a socket in the shed and provide a spur fused down to a maximum of 10A (preferably 5A or 3A) and wire a light in 1.0mm2 or 1.5mm2 twin and earth.
Unless the run is really long or the load really heavy you shouldn't have any issues with voltage drop with a 2.5mm2 (I used this for my garage and the cable is around 30m in length and I have no problems running welders off it.
You also must ensure that the supply is protected by a 30mA RCBO or RCD.
On final thing which won't apply to you but will apply to others is that if you have a steel framed building or have other incoming services to the unit (gas or water for example) and you main building/house supply is PME (will usally be written/labelled on the cutout) you must not connect an earth from the house to the outbuilding and instead must connect the outbuilding building as a TT supply which means that you have to isolate the incoming earth, provide your own earth rod and provide an RCD on the incoming supply to the outbuilding.
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Hi Colin, it's no more then 25m
Thanks
Sean
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Thanks homersimpson really helpful.
Sean
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Thanks homersimpson really helpful. Sean No problem, I bet you can guess what I do for a living :-)
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Aug 10, 2020 11:06:14 GMT
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As others have said, if its run externally I would be looking at a steel wire armoured cable, then you need to consider the total maximum load on the circuit, the method of installation of the cable and the length of run. Its not as simple as just banging in a 2.5mm2 T&E and flicking it on.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,971
Club RR Member Number: 29
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Wiring up a ShedMiataMark
@garra
Club Retro Rides Member 29
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Aug 10, 2020 14:55:03 GMT
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I run my shed (garden office) on effectively a hard wired extension lead, plug to a fused switch then 3 core cable to the shed. Worked fine, was using ethernet over power (PowerLine adaptors) but as the cable has deteriorated I can't get a signal in the shed. Need to rewire it properly with armoured cable run along the fence, either to a new fuse box in the garage or just a 3 pin plug.
p.s. don't do what I did and lay in a pipe under the path and leave a piece of string in to pull cable through with, then leave it a few years so the string rots away and I can't feed a cable through.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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logicaluk
Posted a lot
Every days a school day round here
Posts: 1,373
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I run my shed (garden office) on effectively a hard wired extension lead, plug to a fused switch then 3 core cable to the shed. Worked fine, was using ethernet over power (PowerLine adaptors) but as the cable has deteriorated I can't get a signal in the shed. Need to rewire it properly with armoured cable run along the fence, either to a new fuse box in the garage or just a 3 pin plug. p.s. don't do what I did and lay in a pipe under the path and leave a piece of string in to pull cable through with, then leave it a few years so the string rots away and I can't feed a cable through. I have an ingenious trick to solve this problem, a 5p plastic shopping bag, a ball of string and a hoover. Depending on the size of your pipe cut up the plastic bag to make a loose bung in the tube once the string is tied around it. Suck it through the conduit with the hoover, just remember to tie a rope to the end of the string before it disappears down the conduit. Dan
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Aug 30, 2020 11:11:00 GMT
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I won't quote it, but hompersimpson's advice is very good. He obviously knows his "regs"
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Aug 30, 2020 20:34:44 GMT
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On final thing which won't apply to you but will apply to others is that if you have a steel framed building or have other incoming services to the unit (gas or water for example) and you main building/house supply is PME (will usally be written/labelled on the cutout) you must not connect an earth from the house to the outbuilding and instead must connect the outbuilding building as a TT supply which means that you have to isolate the incoming earth, provide your own earth rod and provide an RCD on the incoming supply to the outbuilding. If the incoming water is fully in plastic between the 2 buildings does this still apply? Obviously there's no point in earthing to polypipe?
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Aug 30, 2020 21:07:54 GMT
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On final thing which won't apply to you but will apply to others is that if you have a steel framed building or have other incoming services to the unit (gas or water for example) and you main building/house supply is PME (will usally be written/labelled on the cutout) you must not connect an earth from the house to the outbuilding and instead must connect the outbuilding building as a TT supply which means that you have to isolate the incoming earth, provide your own earth rod and provide an RCD on the incoming supply to the outbuilding. If the incoming water is fully in plastic between the 2 buildings does this still apply? Obviously there's no point in earthing to polypipe? Thats a tricky one as I don't know if the guidance has been updated for outbuilding but certainly you no longer need to bond the water main to a property if its plastic where it enters the building.
Common sense would say that if its a plastic pipe between the two then you don't need to worry about it.
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Sept 9, 2020 13:07:50 GMT
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Where does everyone stand on this if you aren't qualified? I thought building regs said that if you aren't qualified then the most you can do is add to an existing circuit (so long as it doesn't exceed ratings etc etc.). You can't add a new circuit unless you have it inspected and signed off so i thought.
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Sept 9, 2020 13:26:13 GMT
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You can do what you want in your own property, however there may be issues when you come to sell it as obviously the work isn't certified. The way around this to reassure any potential buyer would be to get a periodic test carried out which would say the values are correct but obviously they can't comment on wiring runs or if you have done something daft like spurring of another spur or powering the electric shower using a 2.5mm cable etc.
Also if the place burns down with no apparent cause it's always listed as an electrical fire which may give your insurers a get out if they are made aware of any non compliant work.
Despite what is widely talked about no electrician is able to sign off sometime else's work without the whole install coming back on them, There's no option on the form to say I just tested and certified this.
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Sept 9, 2020 13:53:30 GMT
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I knew electricians won't and shouldn't sign off other peoples work as it leaves them liable. We had a house fire a few years ago which was due to an e-cig exploding whilst on charge, so not electrical as in house electrics. That being said, the insurers still sent round the forensics and he questioned everything plugged in at the time then inspected the house wiring. I know if you live in a house long term you can get away with doing what you want o to it but this made me thing besides selling there are other situations where your work may be questioned.
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Sept 10, 2020 22:04:03 GMT
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You can do what you want in your own property, however there may be issues when you come to sell it as obviously the work isn't certified. The way around this to reassure any potential buyer would be to get a periodic test carried out which would say the values are correct but obviously they can't comment on wiring runs or if you have done something daft like spurring of another spur or powering the electric shower using a 2.5mm cable etc. Also if the place burns down with no apparent cause it's always listed as an electrical fire which may give your insurers a get out if they are made aware of any non compliant work. Despite what is widely talked about no electrician is able to sign off sometime else's work without the whole install coming back on them, There's no option on the form to say I just tested and certified this. That's not correct, the model form in BS7671 requires either a signature for design, installation and testing or separate signatures for each. I'm an electrical designer and regularly have to add sign just the design section. A periodic inspection should pickup if a shower is wired in the wrong sized cable.
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