ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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If I need a moment of clarity, please state it. I normally don't post up about stuff this new. But I have no idea else about what to do, besides set fire to the car. I'm in the process of changing the aux belts on my Mondeo 2.5T. On this engine, if the belts slip off due to overstretching or they break, they can ruin the engine due to go into the cambelt. Mine have been squealing for a while. Below is a diagram of the belts  I've removed the belts. If anything, that was quite easy. Getting the news ones on is trickier. It seems the old ones must have stretched. The tensioner Torx key is mullered inside on the main belt. That's not a problem. I can buy a new one and put the belt on. It would be much much easier to do and not muller the key inside with two people but it's the way of the world. The Stretch belt I have no idea about. I am at the end of my tether. As you can see, the PAS pulley is a Duplex pulley, with both being the same size. Ford do have a tool for this belt, but this is not available in the aftermarket, I suspect due to too few Mondeo 2.5Ts being around (the Focus ST runs a different setup as that doesn't have a subframe like the Mondeo's in place. Below is the tool : 303-1288, with another from another model the car it's used on.   I have tried a Stretch belt tool (the circular type) on the AC compressor, but the belt will not stay on, and access is curse word for this! Loosening off the compressor on mine isn't an option as they are in there very very tight (1/2" Ratchet wouldn't budge them) and I suspect I'd break a casting on the engine if I went more brutal (breaker bar or rattle gun on a 10mm headed bolt). To me, the problem seems to be that the AC belt goes on the very inside of the PAS pump pulley, hence why the normal tools won't work. You heard me say this! I curse word hate moderns!! Or rather ones with a curse word design! The E61 535d and my E46 M3 belt designs are a walk in the park in comparison! Besides either ditching the AC or setting the car on fire, do you folks have any suggestions? |
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,237 
Club RR Member Number: 160
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If you buy a Continental belt kit it usually comes with tools to fit the belts.
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Can you not remove the pulley, fit the belt on the pulley, then refit?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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If you buy a Continental belt kit it usually comes with tools to fit the belts. Are these similar to these tools? If so, I can't see how they will work on my application. I'll get more photos to elaborate on the pully setup. Do you have photos of the tools? Are you referring to a cam belt kit or an actual aux belt kit? I didn't realise they did these The belts I have are from Ford (ContiTech are the supplier for Ford), as I can get the Ford parts at almost cost  .  Can you not remove the pulley, fit the belt on the pulley, then refit? In theory, yes I can. I can remove the PAS pump Pulley. It's not the best for access but I reckon a way could be figured out. I'd have to somehow push the pulley up in said tight location around 3mm however from this as the belt stretches to that length. In theory, it's possible. I'll grab some pics for today . |
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,237
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Ancillary belt kits. All the Ford Conti kits I’ve been supplied with in the past have come with a tool or two specific to the fitment. Granted only folded steel designed to do the job once only but they do work. That said I usually just walk the belts on without the tools if access is good being careful not to nip them on the pulley edge.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,832
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I made a special tool for these at work out of a gardening trowel lol. Chopped the spade end to half length, rounded all the corners off so it doesn't cut anything and welded a strip of steel on the convex side to stop the belt slipping off onto the handle. Just hook the belt on all the pulleys bar the easiest to access, then put the trowel through the belt and over the lip of the pulley and lever it upwards then slide belt on. Bit of soapy water helps it slide on. All the mechanics borrow it all the time even though we've got the proper tools as its loads quicker.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I may end up having to figure out how to make the trowel tool like stealthstylz ! Figuring out how it can work with this wanky double pulley may be another challenge! Anyway, I have some pics:  Yes, I know the subframe is a little rusty! But for a 1k car, I'm hoping I can get as many ks as possible out of it before it's done!  The Duplex pulley I mentioned. The belt goes onto the inner pulley. It's a 5PK628 belt which I believe stretches to 630.    And a shot of it looking down. Rich, I've tried to look for an ancilliary belt kit online for this car but I'm struggling to find one. I'll need another stretch belt anyway as I damaged the old only trying to walk it on (two ribs can be cut in places, only for the stupid thing to slip off at any opportunity. Can you see if one is available? Reg of this car is WD08 BBO. Hopefully that'll have a tool. |
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Last Edit: Jun 6, 2020 16:37:37 GMT by ChasR
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fraudownersclub
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,005
Club RR Member Number: 23
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Laser and Sealy do various applicator tools. Ford supply one when you purchase a belt from them
Ps if it’s manual it’s easier to select a gear and with assistant help rock/push the car whilst tool is fitted. To be honest they are a real pain and we do have use of a pit in our work shop.
will look at workshop on Tuesday and see what we have 👍
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#fraudownersclub
#richartsltd
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Laser and Sealy do various applicator tools. Ford supply one when you purchase a belt from them Ps if it’s manual it’s easier to select a gear and with assistant help rock/push the car whilst tool is fitted. To be honest they are a real pain and we do have use of a pit in our work shop. will look at workshop on Tuesday and see what we have 👍 Cheers. I didn't get a tool from Ford for mine and Laser don't seem to do a 303-1288 equivalent tool for these. Pretty bloody annoying. If the Stretch belt went onto the outer pulley things could have bee easier. Bear in mind the stretch belt only fits onto two pulleys: -Inner PAS Pump Pulley -AC Pump pulley. It's got to be the wankiest design I've ever seen on a pulley. |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Have you tried fitting the A/C belt on to the double pulley first? Then turning it slightly whilst encouraging it over the A/C lump with the blunt side of a pry bar?  I seem to recall having changed the belts on one of these, but unfortunately I've been asleep since then  |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Have you tried fitting the A/C belt on to the double pulley first? Then turning it slightly whilst encouraging it over the A/C lump with the blunt side of a pry bar? I seem to recall having changed the belts on one of these, but unfortunately I've been asleep since then I did try this, albeit with a larger breaker bar, but I do have a smaller breaker bar I can try to make this easier. I may put it together (the main belt) and give this other belt to a garage, but I also wonder how they will manage to do it without mashing the pulleys. Since the belt is already damaged, I'll give it another go with the smaller bar. When I tried it before, the belt just tried to slip off. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Well,
I may have found out something. I welcome any feedback on how to do it.
The PAS pump pulley apparently separates in two. If that is the case, that could be the gamechanger for fitting the belt on.
I'll let you know what happens.
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Last Edit: Jun 7, 2020 17:07:00 GMT by ChasR
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,237
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Well, I may have found out something. I welcome any feedback on how to do it. The PAS pump pulley apparently separates in two. If that is the case, that could be the gamechanger for fitting the belt on. I'll let you know what happens. Looking at the pulley, that makes sense, the bolts will hold the second pulley face onto the first as most PAS pumps have perma-fitted pulleys on modern aplications usually. |
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OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
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I had something similar to this on a VW diesel of some sort. Can’t for the life of me remember what it was. Only way I could get the belt on was by splitting/removing a pulley and then fitting it that way. Much like you’ve said in your last reply.
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VW T4 rings a bell, vee belt on the crank pulley and spacers to tension it by closing the 2 halves together ?
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OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
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VW T4 rings a bell, vee belt on the crank pulley and spacers to tension it by closing the 2 halves together ? Yes I think you’re right there. It was longer than a year ago so I can’t remember for the life of me. Took a bit of head scratching at the time but the pulley looked very much like one of the pulleys above. Well remembered. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jun 12, 2020 22:29:54 GMT
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Well, I got the belt on!
What did it take?
-Taking off the second part of the pulley
-Making a tool from an oil filter removal tool
-Buy a long-length 3/8 Drive flexible ratchet (this was very key)
-guiding the belt on.
With these things, it took less than 10 minutes to fit the belt.
If you folks want images, I'm happy to share them. From it being a super frustrating job, it was OK in the end, albeit the tool creation was key.
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dazcapri
North East
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Posts: 1,056
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Yeah pictures please we like pictures on here
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Mk3 Capri LS
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Plus one for photos please.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jun 13, 2020 19:42:32 GMT
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Right. It's taken a while as I've also been working on the M3  . Anyway, here is what I did. 0) I dicked around with the stretch belt tools and trying to turn the pulley over with a crank locking tool. It was way too fiddly and way too frustrating. Clearly, I needed another plan 1) After removing the outer PAS pulley, leaving the inner one still a perma pulley, well, it looks to be anyway.  2) I figured somehow that to get around the access and leverage issue I'd need -Something to spin the the PAS pulley around. Like a couple of people, I tried to spin it by hand. Access from the wheelarch was curse word. So that was a no-goer. Up top? Forget it! For some reason I had a moment of clarity. I figured I needed something that could properly guide the pulley around and work in small spaces How would I do this? -Something which could grab the pulley itself -Something which could also be manipulated in small spaces. No, not that you filthy lot! Enter Stage Left:  Yup, I welded on a prong to that oil filter tool, right after cutting it up! I know there was spare welding wire poking out, and the welding could have been tidier! But I did literally knock it up Quickly! That and without cutters to hand and time running short, I just wanted to get the tool done now I could visualise it in my head. I also bought a 3/8" long flexible ratchet from Halfords. OK, it wasn't a bargain, but at least I made a decision. After some trial and error measurement off the pulley in the car (it's not great for space!), I evenually had the tool made. 3) With that in place, I fitted on the new tool onto the pulley.  4) I then got some thick cardboard to use so as to reduce the changes of nipping one of the belt teeth.   5) With that done, I put on the 3/8" Wrench and walked the belt around carefully, whilst keeping the bottom of the belt when going onto the AC pump straight. This part took all of 5 minutes. Seriously!  With that done, I put the old belt on and am now rewarded with; -A car that no longer squeals like crazy when the engine is cold/car has not been used for a while -A little more confident that the cambelt has one less reason to go . Today has been a great car day. I'll allude to the other reason soon enough . |
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