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Sorry for the modern content but this forum has many extremely knowledgeable people on it and I'd really appreciate any help.
In short, we bought a lemon. It's a 2011 Audi A3 1.8tfsi with 70,000 miles and it uses huge amounts of oil. There doesn't seem to be any affect on performance (it actually goes really well) but does spew out blueish smoke once in a while. Without going into the subject of trying to resolve this with the people who sold it to us, I'm interested to get anyone's thoughts on how I might resolve the problem going forward.
The engine requires filling with oil every 500 or 600 miles! I know that this era of tfsi has a known piston issue whereby oil makes its way into the combustion chamber of the cylinders and my garage tells me that would be a £1500 to £2000 problem to fix. Here's the questions...
1) Could the issue be caused by anything else? (there's no leaks)
2) Is the garage''s estimate realistic?
3) I've seen suggestions that using heavier oil (10/40) would help (it should use 5/30) though my mechanic suggests that would be a bad idea in this engine. Is he right?
4) Does anyone have any recommendations for experts on this?
5) At the moment, I'm simply filling it up when I need to. It doesn't do that much mileage so it might cost me about £200 in oil per year but can I expect it to get worse or eventually cause a catastrophic breakdown?
Any thoughts appreciated
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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“They all do that, sir” - was the favourite discussion topic for 1.4 twincharger owners when I was running them.
VAG seem to think 0.5 litres per 500 miles was “acceptable” - most would disagree. I used to run A series Minis with knackered valve guides which used less..
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Overfilling (I.e. don’t fill it to the max line) was deemed one reason - which sounds nonsense but seemed to have some truth behind it as some people could get 3 different levels depending on how you checked - hot/cold/just after stopping/waiting 10 minutes...
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,829
Club RR Member Number: 174
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The bores will be knackered and oil control rings gummed up with carbon. It's common, they're rubbish. Only fix is a engine rebuild, cheaper to do it now whilst the rest is OK. Usually people don't notice or forget to top up and knock the bearings out.
If you can get your money back I would. Dreadful engines.
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May 30, 2020 10:57:00 GMT
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My sister has a Skoda with an 1.8 engine and this also consumed a lot of oil. It seems the oil scrape rings have a design fault and do not work. They replaced the pistons with a better ring design. It was a bill of around Euro 4000,- but she only needed to pay 15%. This happened 2 years ago and now the car is in the garage again as the rear crankshaft oil seal is leaking. They want euro 900,- for replacing this as it seems that the crankshaft seal was not replaced when the new pistons were fitted which was an engine out job which is a shame. I believe they should have replaced the crankshaft oil seal when the engine was out.
Peter
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Last Edit: May 30, 2020 10:58:22 GMT by petervdv
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May 30, 2020 11:03:01 GMT
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shouldn't be an engine put job to do a crank seal, transmission removal sure.
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May 30, 2020 11:53:14 GMT
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Overfilling (I.e. don’t fill it to the max line) was deemed one reason - which sounds nonsense but seemed to have some truth behind it as some people could get 3 different levels depending on how you checked - hot/cold/just after stopping/waiting 10 minutes... Thanks for the response - I've been filling it to what I think is the right level....but as you say, the level varies quite a bit subject to whether it's been driven! |
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May 30, 2020 11:55:05 GMT
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The bores will be knackered and oil control rings gummed up with carbon. It's common, they're rubbish. Only fix is a engine rebuild, cheaper to do it now whilst the rest is OK. Usually people don't notice or forget to top up and knock the bearings out. If you can get your money back I would. Dreadful engines. Yes....hopefully I'll be able to get some form of compensation or return....but I think it may be tough. That's why i'm trying to look ahead at feasible fixes. Such a shame as it's actually a lovely car. |
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May 30, 2020 11:57:57 GMT
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My sister has a Skoda with an 1.8 engine and this also consumed a lot of oil. It seems the oil scrape rings have a design fault and do not work. They replaced the pistons with a better ring design. It was a bill of around Euro 4000,- but she only needed to pay 15%. This happened 2 years ago and now the car is in the garage again as the rear crankshaft oil seal is leaking. They want euro 900,- for replacing this as it seems that the crankshaft seal was not replaced when the new pistons were fitted which was an engine out job which is a shame. I believe they should have replaced the crankshaft oil seal when the engine was out. Peter It's a very common fault from what I've read - I have thought of approaching Audi as I know some people got theirs repaired by them but I'm doubtful I'll get anywhere with that as it's 9 years old now. How old was your sister's skoda when she had it repaired the first time? |
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May 30, 2020 12:44:26 GMT
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2011 is also in the time period for cam chain / tensioner issues. If you're going to have it rebuilt, it'd be worth checking which tensioner is fitted (there have been 4 different ones).
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ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 981
Club RR Member Number: 13
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May 30, 2020 12:45:05 GMT
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Do a bit of Google time to get the fine details as I've forgotten them. I had to do some research last year as the son of a colleague had the same issue. The fix for him turned out to be simple and I only had to be used for advice and support, thankfully.
It was taken to Audi who filled it up and marked any area which oil could be removed from. He was then instructed to call them if the oil light came on and to report the mileage. They deemed it excessive (I think it was similar to yours) and they rebuilt it. That's the only fix as the rings are the issue (again, memory) and requires serious surgery. Who pays for that though... in his case it cost him nothing.
It's a known fault involving court cases in other countries. That's why I say do a bit of research as there is loads out there.
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Last Edit: May 30, 2020 12:47:35 GMT by ferny
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May 30, 2020 12:56:18 GMT
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My sister has a Skoda with an 1.8 engine and this also consumed a lot of oil. It seems the oil scrape rings have a design fault and do not work. They replaced the pistons with a better ring design. It was a bill of around Euro 4000,- but she only needed to pay 15%. This happened 2 years ago and now the car is in the garage again as the rear crankshaft oil seal is leaking. They want euro 900,- for replacing this as it seems that the crankshaft seal was not replaced when the new pistons were fitted which was an engine out job which is a shame. I believe they should have replaced the crankshaft oil seal when the engine was out. Peter It's a very common fault from what I've read - I have thought of approaching Audi as I know some people got theirs repaired by them but I'm doubtful I'll get anywhere with that as it's 9 years old now. How old was your sister's skoda when she had it repaired the first time? I do not know but i quess it was at least 6 years old and it had run 125.000 km. I am not sure if the 85% was covered by Skoda or the dealership who sold the car to my sister The approach of the factory seems to differ per country. I read a story of a dutchman wh had imported an Audi from Germany which had the high oil consumption. Audi in holland did not want to repair it under waranty but a German dealer could do it. |
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May 30, 2020 16:17:47 GMT
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Took them a while to sort this hence the constant updating of the direct injection engines.
The fix for Gen 2 engines is new pistons and rings as used in Gen1 or Gen 3 engines which don't suffer the oil issue as a rule
I run a Scirocco GTS 2.0 TSI with stage 1 remap to 275hp as a daily with the EA888 gen3 engine and have had no issues but it is low mileage and Gen3. |
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Last Edit: May 30, 2020 16:22:18 GMT by duggers
Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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May 30, 2020 21:14:15 GMT
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As already mentioned this is a very common issue, subject to class action and recalls in the US but, shamefully, not here.
That said, it might well be worth approaching Audi (via local dealership initially) especially if the car has a good dealer history and see what their take on it is. There is much written on the subject on the internet. Honest John and a couple of the Audi Forums as well as Pistonheads.
If your purchase is recent enough that you can "take it back" or at least demand some compensation then you might want to think about that too.
Frankly, though I've owned Audis since the mid 90s and had outstanding service from them, I seriously doubt I'd ever have one later than the very early 2000s. Too complex, too much defective engineering and unpleasant to work on.
I find it profoundly depressing that a company that could make powerful, efficient and very long-lived engines in the 80s and 90s seems to have lost the ability in the mid 2000s.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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May 31, 2020 14:41:02 GMT
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Took them a while to sort this hence the constant updating of the direct injection engines. The fix for Gen 2 engines is new pistons and rings as used in Gen1 or Gen 3 engines which don't suffer the oil issue as a rule
I run a Scirocco GTS 2.0 TSI with stage 1 remap to 275hp as a daily with the EA888 gen3 engine and have had no issues but it is low mileage and Gen3. Thanks duggers. This could be handy if I end up going down the route of a full replacement |
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May 31, 2020 14:42:58 GMT
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As already mentioned this is a very common issue, subject to class action and recalls in the US but, shamefully, not here. That said, it might well be worth approaching Audi (via local dealership initially) especially if the car has a good dealer history and see what their take on it is. There is much written on the subject on the internet. Honest John and a couple of the Audi Forums as well as Pistonheads. If your purchase is recent enough that you can "take it back" or at least demand some compensation then you might want to think about that too. Frankly, though I've owned Audis since the mid 90s and had outstanding service from them, I seriously doubt I'd ever have one later than the very early 2000s. Too complex, too much defective engineering and unpleasant to work on. I find it profoundly depressing that a company that could make powerful, efficient and very long-lived engines in the 80s and 90s seems to have lost the ability in the mid 2000s. Nick Thanks. I've considered approaching Audi. It wont be the first time theyve had it come in!...but I'm not too hopeful I'll get anywhere with the age of the car and I'm the 4th owner. Worth giving it a go though |
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lrman
Part of things
Posts: 41 
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May 31, 2020 16:17:29 GMT
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If it has full service history which means oil changes every 19000 miles/ 2 years then at 9 years old you can still get goodwill from Audi which means Audi pay 70% and the dealer pays 30% of the repair cost. There is a separate claims process for this oil issue so you can still get a contribution towards repair if you can prove it has been serviced correctly by a independent. Best thing to do is book it in for a consumption test and if it fails the dealer will find out what it may cost you to repair. You can also contact Audi UK first but you need the consumption test doing before they will really do anything. I’m a Audi tech so fire away if you have any more questions.
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May 31, 2020 16:24:37 GMT
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I have a 2005 A3 2.0 TFSI, we've had it 3 years, it's done 120,000 miles, and it does use more oil than any other car I've ever owned. I was aware of expected higher oil consumption on these engines and given the mileage, i wasn't overly bothered.
I check it approximately once a month and it generally needs about 150mm+ of oil, i found it was pointless checking the level at any time other than stone cold, as it was difficult to see where the level was on the dipstick.
We only do about 5000 miles a year, but now i always do an additional level check before any long motorway journeys, as early in my ownership, i got complacent, hadn't checked it for a while and the low oil light came on, on the motorway!
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'76' Datsun 260z 2+2 UK RHD.... owned since '95' none of that rust free LHD import shenanigans!
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May 31, 2020 17:00:14 GMT
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If it has full service history which means oil changes every 19000 miles/ 2 years then at 9 years old you can still get goodwill from Audi which means Audi pay 70% and the dealer pays 30% of the repair cost. There is a separate claims process for this oil issue so you can still get a contribution towards repair if you can prove it has been serviced correctly by a independent. Best thing to do is book it in for a consumption test and if it fails the dealer will find out what it may cost you to repair. You can also contact Audi UK first but you need the consumption test doing before they will really do anything. I’m a Audi tech so fire away if you have any more questions. Cheers @irman. Really appreciate your inside knowledge and may well pick your brains more! I think it has full audi service history until the last 2 or 3 which seem to be regular garages. |
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I had a 2010 a4 with the 2.0 Tfsi engine it , these suffered the same fault of excessive oil use
Before I purchased the car it had been repaired with a bill of around £4-5k
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