Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Mar 24, 2020 16:52:40 GMT
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Boring long post, please bear with - could use some advice.
Just picked up a new car (2004 Porsche), paid 5 figures from a car trader plus trading in my old car.
Very quickly I've identified a number of faults (documented and video'd), and they are entirely not interested despite it being well within the first 30 days.
They haven't offered to repair (and have written a detailed reply saying I was told/should have known about all these faults as I am an enthusiast!) and are ignoring my requests for a refund. In fact they are claiming that if I challenge them they will countersue because the car I traded in was apparently faulty and needed a £1.5k top end rebuild!
So my questions are really around my best options...
Get it repaired and sue them for the costs through small claims? OR
Go to BIG court for all my money back?
Does their countersuit have any merit?
I can't find any example of the customer being sued, it seems laughable but I thought I'd ask.
Obviously I can't go into specifics but I've got nothing but time to ponder these things ATM.
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ems1
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 295
Club RR Member Number: 5
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Mar 24, 2020 19:05:03 GMT
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If you've got a car from a trader the law is on your side, I've just copied this from another site:
If you buy a new or used car from a dealer and experience problems with it, you have some statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The Act states the car must be “of a satisfactory quality”, “fit for purpose” and “as described”. (For a used car, “satisfactory quality” takes into account the car’s age and mileage.)
You have a right to reject something faulty and you are entitled to a full refund within 30 days of purchase in most cases.
After 30 days you lose the short-term right to reject the goods.
You’ll also have fewer rights, such as only being able to ask for a repair or replacement, or a partial refund.
Make sure everything is in writing by e-mail or letter, or if by phone record it (I 'm not sure if this can be used as evidence)
It's probably going to be difficult getting replies from Citizens Advice or Trading Standards due to coronavirus but try e-mailing or calling them anyway.
As for your trade-in it looks like scare tactics / blackmail. If it has been repaired they should have a paper trail showing what was done with invoices for work done / parts purchased and also if the head has been off you'll notice new head bolts, etc.
Find any adverts for the car from newspapers or internet for evidence. "Sold as seen" won't hold up if that was in their advert.
My brother had a similar problem a few years ago, when the engine packed up within days, it dragged on and he had to take them to court but he got his money back.
You might have more rights if you paid part of it on credit card.
Good luck and don't give in to their bullying
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1985 Manta GT/E 16v
2001 VW T4 Caravelle
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Mar 24, 2020 19:42:49 GMT
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Their counter claim is b*llshit. “They should have known it had issues as they’re car dealers”
re your trade in.
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2020 19:43:49 GMT by vincento
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Mar 24, 2020 20:01:35 GMT
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Their counter claim is b*llshit. “They should have known it had issues as they’re car dealers” re your trade in. 100%. |
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Mar 24, 2020 20:05:55 GMT
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Just picked up a new car (2004 Porsche), paid 5 figures from a car trader plus trading in my old car. Very quickly I've identified a number of faults (documented and video'd), and they are entirely not interested despite it being well within the first 30 days. They haven't offered to repair (and have written a detailed reply saying I was told/should have known about all these faults as I am an enthusiast!) and are ignoring my requests for a refund. Here's my 2p's worth. If I was in your situation I'd contact the solicitor asap. You don't have to see him, a phone call and follow up email would do for now. Don't mess about time wise, strike while the iron is hot and get a an engineers report (Porsche specialist or similar) on the condition of the car, I'd make sure it's dated within 30 days of purchase. |
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2020 21:18:29 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Cheers guys.
Solicitor contacted and a mechanical inspection requested from a local-ish Porsche specialist.
Problem will be getting the car inspected by a garage that's open, and despite being important to me it's not really an essential journey right now. I fear this may take some time...
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You would have to show you did everything reasonable to get the report asap, obviously the court will under stand re the corona etc, if you paid any of it on credit the credit company have some liability. I would be a bit concerned at the dealer folding as overheads will be crippling them with no income, he may be riding it out until they fold. Don't mention them on here. Are you in the AA etc? From memory some of these companies offer inspections and legal advice, your solicitor won't be cheap but you should be able to claim costs, but its one thing winning its another getting paid, the solicitor should look at the solvency of the company to see if its worth taking on. I have won couple of complaints by threatening small claims court as win or loose you only pay about £100 costs cant be calmed, sadly for you £10,000 in the maximum claim Personally I think you should be rejecting the car as even if they repair it would you be happy? Bed time reading www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-moneyI think this is the up to date stuff but would have to check with winchwoman as she has a better memory than me. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/29 |
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Their counter claim is b*llshit. “They should have known it had issues as they’re car dealers” re your trade in. Spot on. |
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Mar 30, 2020 19:16:20 GMT
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Any progress?
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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If the car was a retail sale they have to give 3 months warranty if they are in fact a dealer and not some 'private' seller.
If you bought it trade you have no comeback. A 30 day warranty does not stand for a retail sale.
As for the trade in they are trying it on.
Rip them a new one.........
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Car was booked in for a proper inspection yesterday, but that went out the window with the lockdown. Two different garages have 'confirmed' (one on the phone, one via email) that the car is obviously faulty and what needs to be done to repair the car. Skype call scheduled with lawyer this morning postponed due to 'technical issues' until tomorrow. Will keep you posted... |
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Rip them a new one......... That's the plan...waiting on what the lawyer says would be the best course of action to ensure I don't lose out. I'm lucky that I don't rely on the car - it can sit gathering dust in the garage. I'm not spending a penny on it unless I'm guaranteed to get it back or, better, they just do the right thing and fix it. TBH I don't want them working on it at all - I'd rather go to my specialist and have the garage foot the bill. Or pursue the full refund + costs that I know I'm entitled to. |
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I wonder if the faults would show on a video? Might as well gather your thoughts and keep your powder dry for now and gather every scrap of evidence
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Apr 25, 2020 19:38:32 GMT
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Just a mini update if anyone is interested.
Spoke to a solicitor and he suggests that the best course of action is to get the car repaired then chase the garage through small claims.
Whilst it's clear I have a strong case he said the cost of legal fees chasing a full refund would outweigh the value of the car, and the garage may well just choose to fold under the weight of fees + refund. Can't say I was entirely happy as this makes a mockery of the Sale of Goods Act, but I can't ignore advice. He laughed at any idea of a counterclaim as I as the purchaser do not have to abide by the act. Which is obvious.
On a more positive note - and something I didn't know - is that because I officially rejected the car within the first month I have fully 6 years to take them to court.
Now, I've actually repaired some of the bigger things myself so receipts for every single part and every bit of travel are being carefully and thoroughly collected and when I'm content with the car that's when to launch the case through the courts.
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Apr 26, 2020 19:06:55 GMT
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Did you actually get a report stating what is wrong with the car yet, if not get it done ASAP, in pretty sure to go through small claims you need to have given them a chance to put it right or made multiple attempts to get them to do so.
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,903
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Did you actually get a report stating what is wrong with the car yet, if not get it done ASAP, in pretty sure to go through small claims you need to have given them a chance to put it right or made multiple attempts to get them to do so. Rest assured I've gone through the process of outlining the faults via several letters and formal requests. They replied, declining to even look at the car. So they've acknowledged the issues and refused to address them which from my point of view is actually more helpful than denying the issues exist. Unfortunately the car was booked in for an inspection on March 31st - but by then we were in lockdown. But I've spoken to two garages and got a string of emails confirming what they suspect to be the faults. I've completed the jobs they suggested and - hey presto! - problems solved. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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If you don't mind me asking.
-Is the car a 996.
-What faults does the car have?
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