tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Feb 27, 2020 15:02:51 GMT
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It's been 5 years since I've been here. Two kids later...
Due to the kids taking priority, our car choises have been sensible to say the least. Main car V70, second car V50. (We live in Sweden)
I have an idea of saving 3k towards a project car, something I've longed for, previously only tinkering with daily drivers.
My circumstances are. No garage Large driveway Cant weld Basic mechanic experience, can change suspension components, gaskets, service parts etc
Any advise on a good beginners car.
Toying with the idea of pre 80s? VW Beetle (heard they are easy to work on) IMP or minx MG Gt or likewise.
Thanks
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Best beginners car.Mercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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Feb 27, 2020 15:40:20 GMT
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Morris minor , within budget if you look around and easy to work on Or look at rubber bumpered mgb gt
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1989 Sierra sapphire 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Feb 27, 2020 17:01:37 GMT
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Might be some inspiration here :
Parts supply and available knowledge is super useful so Morris Minor, Beetle, MG, Imp are all good choices.
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2020 17:01:45 GMT by HoTWire
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Feb 27, 2020 19:21:56 GMT
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I'd suggest anything BMC but I'm biased.
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,391
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Best beginners car.mylittletony
@mylittletony
Club Retro Rides Member 84
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"Can't weld" and all the cars you've listed will almost inevitably cause you problems. Do they salt the roads over there? Living in Sweden and already having a penchant for the Swedes, have a look at Volvo 140s (for a 60s car they're safe for kids) or Amazon. Mechnically straightforward and you could get a not-available-in-the-UK 142 fairly easily. They're handsome beasts:
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,248
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Best beginners car.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Feb 28, 2020 10:09:23 GMT
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I think you're on the right lines.
There are a few things I'd say, however:
-Even the mintest car out there will need things doing to it. But they will be easier to deal with and less likely to be bodged ; the latter is what can shaft you on many counts -Having goods parts availabiity is good, but sometimes can be a mixed blessing through poor quality or needing work to fit, albeit it's easier than when nothing is available -80s cars bar maybe Porsches do struggle with parts availability, especially Fords ; there's a reason why nice Fords are getting stolen and why they break for alot of money ; £600+ for an RS Turbo dashboard anyone?
With that, I'd say the MGB, but even a £3k MGB isn't what a £3k MGB used to be ; i.e £3k used to be able to get a very nice example. a £2k car back then is now more like £3k. You will need more than £3k IMHO to get a Beetle that isn't bodged to Kingdom Come, and boy a few have seen their share of bodges!
Dare I say it. It breaks your rules but I'm tempted to say get a Merc W124. The 6 pot cars may go for more but a 230E is a decent car to have with less of the thirst. £3k will get a very nice example, and they do drive superbly, especially considering their competition of the time.
Moggie is also a good shout.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2020 10:18:17 GMT by ChasR
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Feb 28, 2020 10:39:23 GMT
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I'd go with the old advice: Buy the best car you can possibly afford, even if it means perhaps a less desirable make/model.
Without anywhere to work and no welding experience, I'd say if you go for pre-80's then you're asking for trouble (or large garage bills!).
Have you considered something a little newer? The early 90's saw a real improvement in rust protection and reliability compared to earlier cars, so as a starter something from that era might make more sense.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2020 10:40:11 GMT by daklone
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Feb 28, 2020 10:48:58 GMT
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You can own a car with no garage, no welding experience and basic experience of other things. I've managed it for about 15 years or so. I can't say it's been a pretty sight, but I managed it. But what you have to do is to work out your own ways to get to and tackle problems, and sometimes you just have to accept that some things are probably going to be better off in the hands of a fully kitted out professional workshop - despite the inherent risks and the costs. There is a world of difference between basic tools + working outside, versus all the gear in an enclosed workshop, so a job that is very easy to tackle to many people will be difficult for you. I've spent days trying to achieve things that people assure me are ten minute jobs. Conversely I;ve also got things done very swiftly that I was told might take many days. You just have to figure out how you can do it using what you have. Knowledge of how to do it isn't really the issue because with enough research anyone can learn how to do anything correctly, in theory. It really isn't rocket science. But you're kind of one your own in a lot of ways because seeking advice on the internet won't help you if people say "oh yeah it's easy just get the car up on the lift and reverse-pump the Dorkage with a Matriculated Spork Aggravator attached to the airline... and use a 15 gauge Blithering Musticator to activate the Binary Chopwoggle on the Bifter Circuit". You might find you just have to hit it with a brick and get a hairdryer on it. I'd go for something very small and light so you can manhandle it about easy. Keep it very simple. A basic car with as few mod cons as possible. You can definitely get something for £3k. Until my latest car I've never spent more than £3k and I used to have my target set at 1k when I first started out on buying old stuff. Don't get something you love first time around, get something you can confidently mess about with without worrying you're going to damage anything. Get something already beaten up as long as it runs and isn't falling apart. You can make it into something you like over time. Make sure the chassis is good, all load bearing points are good, and the engine itself is good. Everything else can be changed. I'm a total dabbler and I've always bought cars that people are selling cheap because they don't run right. If it's just the carb or whatever you can have it running right within a week. You can't really check everything so you have to just take a gamble and know that things will crop up. A car can look fine but if you don't know when the bearings were last greased, or whether anybody has ever put any oil in the diff or what bolts have been used to hold the propshaft on... you can't check everything or ever be 100%, and nobody does a full inspection on a 3k car. I generally ask to go for a decent length drive and get it up to heat, up to speed, cycle through the cooling system lots of times, sit with it idling, run up and down the gears lots of times, hit the brakes hard , rev it, take some sharp turns, make it starts when hot and cold... basically reassure myself it's going to make the journey home. if it can make the journey home then you can deal with the rest once you're there. I reckon a rust free MG Midget would be a good starting point. It's hard to find one that doesn't have structural rust but nobody seems to want Midgets any more and there are always plenty for sale... and they're crazy cheap. Get an Ashley GT hard top for it if you don't like open tops, maybe think about a zeussed up A-series to drop in it for a bit more party later on. The later black bumper cars are unloved and therefore very cheap, but you can buy or fabricate a bumper delete panel set and then you're on your way to making it look like a classic cafe racer. Bonus pic of an Ashley GT hard top. Just lovely... Personally I think a1275cc Ashley GT Midget is a heck of lot cooler than an 1.8 MGBGT. MGBGTs are not all that to drive. Quite dull. A raspy lightweight little Midget though... it's a go kart, and it could be tweaked for more performance very easily compared to the 1.8 in the MGBGT.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2020 11:14:47 GMT by Deleted
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Feb 28, 2020 11:48:20 GMT
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I've spent days trying to achieve things that people assure me are ten minute jobs. Conversely I;ve also got things done very swiftly that I was told might take many days. You just have to figure out how you can do it using what you have. I absolutely agree with that; I usually figure that it will take me 3 or 4 times as long to do a job as 'the internet' says it will take. But with patience, enthusiasm and a bit of ingenuity you can do pretty much anything.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2020 11:51:27 GMT by daklone
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,248
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Best beginners car.ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Feb 28, 2020 12:10:38 GMT
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The danger with some non-runner with carb issues is you can get bit very badly.
I have been at least twice now. On a Midget it came to it being a new engine making things easier to deal with. On a 944, a sticky rapper turned out to be a very shot bore. Yup, it needed a new engine.
I have also got lucky at times but with such things it’s very much buyer beware.
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Last Edit: Feb 28, 2020 12:11:10 GMT by ChasR
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Feb 28, 2020 12:30:07 GMT
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This all depends on what you want out of a car.
Do you want something sporty or just something retro? Do you want your kids to be involved in it?
80's and before, you will certainly be looking at welding. If its a patch in the sill, that is going to be a pain for a garage which is why many do it at home. If its an entire sill, this may be worth you getting a pro to do it.
As someone has said, 90's cars started to have better rust protection however they also started to use more electrics. This may or may not suit you depending on your knowledge.
I started with a VW Scirocco Mk2 (still got it). Sporty drive, practical with kids, relatively good rust protection compared to 60's and 70's horrors, mechanical fuel injection which set me up with a load of knowledge that put me in good stead for learning things later on with more modern stuff.
If you look at early 90's cars, you can get some interesting japanese stuff, although some parts aren't easy to come by depending on model. MX5? MR2? Nissan 100NX? Mitsubish FTO? Or the more sensible route, Honda Civic coupe? Toyota Celeca? OR turn to Europe, Mk3 Golf are cheap and easy to work on, mk3 Caverlia, Opel Tigra?
It all depends what you think you a capable of doing. The typical MG's and Triumphs are attractive as they are very nuts and bolts, but they still alot of fiddling with and it depends how good you can find to start with.
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Feb 28, 2020 13:27:42 GMT
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Few people have mentioned golfs. I reconditioned (whole fuel system, all brakes, whole exhaust, cooling and many other parts) a 1979 passat on my driveway with no initial knowledge. Given the massive supply of vw parts, reckon if you go mk2 golf in OK condition, you'll be in a good position.
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1979 Mk1 Passat Estate 1.6 LS 1996 Mk3.5 Fiesta 1.3 Classic 1997 Mk1 MX5 1.8i 2005 Mazda 3 TS
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rodharris83
Club Retro Rides Member
Day Dreamer...
Posts: 768
Club RR Member Number: 4
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Best beginners car.rodharris83
@rodharris83
Club Retro Rides Member 4
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Feb 28, 2020 15:56:03 GMT
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Few people have mentioned golfs. I reconditioned (whole fuel system, all brakes, whole exhaust, cooling and many other parts) a 1979 passat on my driveway with no initial knowledge. Given the massive supply of vw parts, reckon if you go mk2 golf in OK condition, you'll be in a good position. If it was me I would look at something like this... link
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Feb 29, 2020 14:49:38 GMT
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Feb 29, 2020 18:47:29 GMT
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I learned a lot from my first Fiat 500 ( a '72 )
A smaller, lighter, slower car will teach you more about handling ( it gives you more time and space to save it before you crash into things ), and they are great in the snow.
Heater takes a long time to get going though...
Parts are cheap and available, they are easy to work on, and they are fun.
Cant find one anymore for under 3K ( unless it needs a lot of welding ), but maybe a 126?
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,673
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Feb 29, 2020 21:53:06 GMT
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I learnt everything about cars due to the vw beetle - They were plentiful and cheap in the early 90's and knew nothing about other cars at all - the scene helped and my social life was based on these cars. Not one part of these cars was difficult - engine out in 30 mins with 8,10,13,19mm spanners and a trolley jack - clutch replaced in 45 mins was my record. Would definitely not recommend one now though! I still pull over and help people with them if I see them broken down - the sad thing these days is that they tend to have no knowledge of the car whatsoever....
I reckon MK2 golf, MK2 polo are the best useable starter classic nowadays - even the mk3 golf/polo can be included as they don't seem as loved yet - The MK3 estate is a favorite of mine.
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Wow, what a response! Thanks!
I'm sorry I haven't replied to your suggestions yet, when I get the time I will.Time is in short supply here with two kids under 2½ 😳
Will respond soon.
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Wait until you have three children under five. Then you'll know what busy is.
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Mk2 golf is a great shout for a useable classic.I don't know how plentiful they are but a Volvo 340 has always had a soft spot with me as well.
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