Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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*EDIT- this was the ‘ 50s style bench/workstation build’ titled thread but it’s kinda evolved into all my workshop builds now....* I decided to separate this out from the other thread I started as it’s getting a bit techy. First, what I’ve already posted- There’s a few considerations when it comes to space saving. Personally, I don’t think any bench needs to be more than 2 feet deep, unless you a working on items on a daily basis that are more than 3 feet square. I’ve had ones that are in the past, and they just end up as dumping grounds. 2 foot is a nice arms length to the back of, and not too much space that it fills up with junk. Length doesn’t really matter, but a minimum is about 4 feet for it to be stable enough. As for height, that depends on how tall you are, but it should be between waist and elbow height, preferably closer to elbow. I’m quite tall so all my echoes are 3’6” plus the top as the normal 3ft/900mm is too low for me. It’s also good to factor your benches around the size of standard sheet materials, I.e. a factor of 2feet, 4 feet or 8 feet. A sheet of 3/4” plywood ripped in half lengthways and glued and screwed together is one of the best bench tops you can get, and one of the cheapest. I always have a vice mounted on one end of the bench with a open space next to it, or a space that has something that is easily movable, e.g. welder on wheels so I can move it out the way so I can come at something in the vice from 90 degrees if I need to. To me this kind of negates any need for the bench to be movable, which means you can secure it to the floor and walls to make it extra solid. But then I’m the sort of person who you’ll find standing on the bench swinging a sledgehammer at something in the vice from time to time, so I like to build em tough. You’ll notice my vice is at the left end of the bench, cos I’m left handed. If you were right handed I’d expect you to have the vice and the space at the end at the other end. The other point, and the reason I’m planning a new bench, is that if you look at my current bench, even with all the boxes stacked up under it and then one shelf that’s there, it’s still about 50% void space under there. It’s also ‘dirty’ space, as it gets covered in grinding cr4p and wire wheel bristles and metal dust, so I only really use it for storing materials offcuts and the like. For it to be truly effective space, it needs more shelving/drawers, and to be compartmentalised somehow to keep the dust and dirt out. Then I’ve basically doubled my storage space under there. Also, there’s the space above worktop height. My old old bench had shelves and racking above it mounted off the rear posts, but it tended to shake everything off the shelves if you where really wailing on something in the vice. For that not to happen the bench needs to be very substantial, and fixed down. But then it opens up the space above too. I had a tube light on the racking as well as your light source was then in front as well as behind, so no shadows. I tend to always have a backboard or at least an upstand on my benches now too, to stop stuff disappearing down the back/brace things against, but also to act as storage for all the tools you use so often they’re not worth putting away in a drawer, or are awkward shapes to store. On my bench which is mostly used for general steel fabrication but will get used for absolutely anything car related at some point, there is always tapes, steel rules, squares, 3 stacks of part used cutting, grinding and flap wheels, metric and imperial drill bit stands and some pens/scribes/dividers that never get put away anywhere else as they’re always in use. There’s 3 or 4 grinders and my favourite couple of hammers that rarely leave the bench too. Realising that these things always live on the bench and incorporating places to tuck them away that’s still within arms reach is an important consideration to planning the space.
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Last Edit: Jun 22, 2020 21:17:27 GMT by Dez
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Well seeing as the weather wasn’t particularly conducive to doing DIY today, I did some researching and planning on what I want in my megabench. I watched some YouTube vids of people making benches, but they’re mostly for woodworking, look decidedly home-made, or are what I call ‘poseur benches’, all burnt wood, industrial aesthetic that performs no function and engraved logos, more likely to live in your front room than ever get oil or rust on them. Don’t get me wrong I like industrial looking things, but the aesthetic should be a product of the function, not shoehorned in there afterwards by adding false rivets and cheesy paint effects. Then I spent a while on the garage journal looking at ‘50s deco-styled(we’ll actually streamline moderne, but let’s not split hairs) units and massive workstations from the likes of Alemite and Graco. Given I mostly work on 30s-60s Americana, this is an asthetic I can subscribe to. My workshop already has a bit of a ‘50s engineering shop vibe going on and such units would work nicely. And there’s Nowt wrong with it looking nice as well as being functional. This is the sort of thing that caught my imagination- Bearing in mind unrestored ones are going for $3k plus, any ideas of importing one were soon set aside. I wouldn’t dare use it! So, I started sketching out what I’d like aesthetic wise but also figuring out how I can make it 100% functional, without making it overly complicated to make. I’m thinking I will make two of these, both 12 foot long, one metal topped and one wood topped, and get rid of a few smaller units I have. Then I got into the nuts and bolts of actually putting one together, sizing materials and quantities surveying. This will be a massive build and will probably have to be done in stages, but as I intend to keep these for the rest of my life i think it’s worth investing the time and effort sooner rather than later.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I’ve been doing some more research, i that I’ve been poking round this pinder versatool cabinet I have to see how it’s made. It’s my favourite of the existing workshop furniture I have. These cabinets really are great quality, quite heavyweight steel and well designed and finished, so it was interesting to see how it’s put together. I got this back when they could still be picked up cheaply, I think this was about 50 quid. They fetch £250+ now. It’s looking a little neglected after the fire (which it survived by the skin of its teeth, hence it looking a little sooty!), it’s the next one due a strip down and paint. The thing that makes these old industrial cabinets for me is the rounded edges on the doors. It makes them look ‘proper’ Interestingly they’re not going to be as hard to make as I thought. The inner edge has no return, it’s just a cut edge. Only the inner door sharp centre fold has a return, none of the others do. The rounded corners are also just hammered and dollied over and welded together then ground up, which I was surprised at. what is means is if you have a metal folder with an adjustable blade, you can make these doors pretty easily. It just so happens I have. Also note the hinges are also just steel piano hinge spot welded on. Cheap and simple. The other big thing I wanted to have a look at on this cabinet is the swing out drawers. I really like these, and I’m thinking I will make the drawers on my cabinet/bench swing out rather than on runners. It’s easy and cheap to do with ball bearing fire door hinges and a few magnets for the latch. And is interesting/different but still functional. You do loose a small area of shelf in the back corner because do the radius, but you don’t have cr4ppy drawer runners to deal with. After what pardonthewait was saying about dust ingress even on proper cabinets, I’m now thinking about adding a seal to the bottom edge of each drawer, that seals the drawer below when closed. Just a rubber lip seal or something on each one to close the gap should work well.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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I have now been quantity surveying this build.
For the steel framework, i.e. no drawer or door construction, with a 6mm steel over 36mm wood top and 3/4” ply backboard and sides, but no top shelf/lighting factored in, I’m already over 450kg and £700 in materials.
I was starting to wonder if that was a trifle excessive, but then 12 feet’s worth of stainless SGS cabinets with top boxes would be 350kg and £1600, and they’re rubbish in comparison.
Final figures will probably be about 600kg empty and the best part of a grand in materials.
As this is going to be a major undertaking I think I’m going to have to phase the construction to make it viable. I best end up with this as a bench for life, I wouldn’t have to make it again!
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Last Edit: Feb 13, 2020 11:31:15 GMT by Dez
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Feb 13, 2020 10:22:49 GMT
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I think you may be staring a trend in workstations. Art Deco FTW.
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Feb 13, 2020 10:44:37 GMT
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Art deco and storm proof with such a weight. Very cool!
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Current: 1983 Volkswagen 1200 Mexico 2021 Kia Niro Hybrid ----- Former: 1989 Volkswagen Jetta 1990 Volkswagen Golf Madison 1996 Volkswagen Golf Wagon Happy Hour 2006 Fiat Panda 100HP 2006 Toyota Avensis Wagon
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 13, 2020 11:32:20 GMT
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Art deco and storm proof with such a weight. Very cool! I’ve got a new workshop build planned a few years down the line, if I put this in there first I can just fix the walls to it and have done 😂
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Feb 13, 2020 12:32:13 GMT
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Art deco and storm proof with such a weight. Very cool! I’ve got a new workshop build planned a few years down the line, if I put this in there first I can just fix the walls to it and have done 😂 Ciara and Dennis have nothing on you.
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Current: 1983 Volkswagen 1200 Mexico 2021 Kia Niro Hybrid ----- Former: 1989 Volkswagen Jetta 1990 Volkswagen Golf Madison 1996 Volkswagen Golf Wagon Happy Hour 2006 Fiat Panda 100HP 2006 Toyota Avensis Wagon
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Feb 13, 2020 14:03:39 GMT
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Looking forward to seeing this built. Design looks great. Hope you have lots of vintage tools to fill it with.
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Feb 13, 2020 17:40:06 GMT
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Funnily enough I was looking at something like this after seeing the retro style rollcab that one of the forumites bought himself. Well cool 😎
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 13, 2020 20:13:27 GMT
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Looking forward to seeing this built. Design looks great. Hope you have lots of vintage tools to fill it with. I do have a few yeah. Working on vintage cars often means vintage tools.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 13, 2020 20:55:14 GMT
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Well as this is retro rides, I can’t actually start the thing without backtracking and doing 3 other things first, can I? 😂 Part of my overall holistic workshop approach I’m taking this year is that if something is in the workshop, it has to pull its weight. So it has to work perfectly and be something I actually use often enough to justify. First victim/beneficiary of that is this- Its a hydraulic hacksaw. More specifically It’s a speedax 9”. Everyone who’s got 9 inches likes to show it off, right? Just be careful who you show it to or you’ll end up on a register. Not sure why it’s a 9”, it must either be able to cut 9” or has a 9” stroke or something. It’ll do 4” square anyway so that’s all I really care about. For scale, the bit of blue box section in it is 50x50, so it’s a big ol’ lump. I bought it a bit before the fire, tried it once, found a problem, every other job I needed to do was in a hurry so I didn’t get round to fixing the issues before using it properly. In the fire it just got a bit wet as it was in the unburnt corner, and it’s sat in the salvage storage area ever since. But since I’m going to need to cut up a large amount of steel stock for this build, now would be an opportune time to sort it out. It actually seems a fairly decent bit of kit, it’s doesn’t seem to have any discernible wear, and has a proper belt driven coolant feed setup. It plugs in and works-ish, but the issue i’d identified was belt slip on the drive belts. I replaced the belts and it didn’t help much, but as you can see here the adjuster is maxed out. So i decided the easiest thing to do was just cut that bit of angle off with the adjuster slots in, and let a bit of angle into it next to the back plate, so it resets the adjusters about halfway down the slots. I took it off, stripped all the pulleys off and wire wheeled em all up and cleaned and regreased all the bearings. Then I cut and ground the huge amount of weld off attaching the bit of angle. It looked like this has been messed around with at least twice before judging the old welds going on. Cleaned up and location marked for the extension. And in place. The angle was fractionally bigger than the bit on there so I just sloped the outer edges to meet up, you’ll see what I mean in a mo. Other bit back on and ground up. I then refitted it, did it up a bit tighter and the belts don’t seem to slip now. Not that I really got to try it properly, as the hydraulics had got loads of water in where they’d put the fire out, turning the fluid to emulsion- Lovely. The hydraulics are odd on one of these in a couple of ways. One, it has an open hydraulic reservoir inches away from a swarf-creating blade. Hardly ideal but it seems to not effect it too much. The other thing is the term ‘hydraulic hacksaw’ itself. The name would suggest that the hydraulics would be in some way responsible for the cutting, wouldnt it? Well they’re not. The to-and-fro of the blade is created by nothing more exciting than an electric motor, a few pulleys and a crankshaft operating on a blade frame on a slide by means of a connecting rod. What the hydraulics do is control the descent of the blade. If you look at the size of the counterweight above the blade, it weighs a ton. Under its own weight it just jams the blade into the workpiece way too hard, snags up and either breaks the blade or slips the pulleys. I’m still struggling to understand exactly how the hydraulics work, but I’ve not fully stripped the valve block yet. What I think happens is this- There is a small piston driven off a second crankshaft on the main driveshaft, that seems to pump oil into the bottom of the big piston that holds up the hacksaw arm. It has a knob with a needle valve that seems to go into the end of the smaller piston, acting as flow control. But then it’s not really a pressurised system as there is also a bypass hole on the bottom of the big cylinder that bleeds back into the reservoir. If the pump stops the arm would drop. So I guess it’s never fully capable of stopping the arm descending, it just slows it so it drops gracefully/gradually, and you can adjust that with the flow control valve. This is the reservoir once removed from the saw and stripped down. Yes, absolutely everything is cast iron! I’ve now got all the bits in the parts washer and will continue tomorrow once all the emulsified oil has been cleaned out.
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Last Edit: Feb 13, 2020 21:00:17 GMT by Dez
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bricol
Part of things
Posts: 290
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I'd best not mention how many of those swing out drawer cupboards they've slung out into the scrap bin at work . . . and replaced with best quality tin-plate from a catalogue.
I did get hold of one, and it turned out not to be as useful as more conventional one. for it's size, you couldn't store much in it due to the size of the shelves - the depth of them required for the strength. Plus you then needed enough room to open the door to swing the shelf out.
Flogged it on and repurposed some simple sliding tray cast-offs. Simple folded sheet metal drawers of differing depths, hung from, and sliding on the folds on the upper edges of the sides on simply flat runners in the cupboard. Flip out arms stop it coming too far, or flip them in and slide it right out.
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Feb 14, 2020 18:54:04 GMT
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Looking forward to the bench/cupboard build, if its anything like your vehicle builds it will be a work of art!
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Feb 14, 2020 19:53:16 GMT
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That's a great idea, ill be watching this closely. I could do with one in the house, made of wood.
#goes to shed#
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 14, 2020 20:50:54 GMT
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I did get hold of one, and it turned out not to be as useful as more conventional one. for it's size, you couldn't store much in it due to the size of the shelves - the depth of them required for the strength. Plus you then needed enough room to open the door to swing the shelf out. I won’t be putting doors in front of the shelves, I’ll be putting drawer fronts onto the swing out shelves, so that won’t be an issue. I happy they’ll do what I want em to do.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 14, 2020 20:59:50 GMT
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Further hacksaw news. I cleaned and dried everything and set about reassembling. Looks like this con rod on the bigger cyl has had a life, it’s snapped and been repaired. This is the valve block with the two piston bodies. The brass thing in the side is the bypass/bleed off valve, you can see the hole above it is drilled at an angle so the needle valve runs down to it. This is the inside of that smaller cyl with the brass bit cross drilled through it. Simple but effective. On the bottom there’s this simple ball valve (on the left), that allows the piston to suck fluid up from the reservoir it’s submerged in, then closes so it pushes it the other way into the bigger cyl. Again, simple but effective. I removed it and washed it out. Here it is all reassembled after cleaning. It’s amazingly simple really. It fits back in there. The big murky dark reservoir visible underneath is for the cutting fluid. All refitted. I then filled the fluid back up, unscrewed the flow control thingy to bleed it, and let it pump itself a bit til all the air was out.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 14, 2020 21:17:21 GMT
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Look, it works! You will notice the pump does actually pump enough fluid to hold the blade up. It’s not until i open the valve a bit more the blade descends. But you will also notice at the end it jams. It took me a while fiddling and messing about to stop this, it turns out it just needed the slider for the frame adjusting and oiling, as well as the flow control on the hydraulics tweaking a bit. This is the third cut I did, it takes 35 secs from blade contact to go through 50x50x3 box section, which I think is pretty good. That’s cutting dry, I still have the coolant pump to sort yet. After that I dragged out some massive 120x60x6 RHS (that’s rectangular hollow section to the uninitiated, the technical term for non square box section), and had a go on that to see how it handled it. It’s material I had saved for another workshop project, a massive chassis table I’m making, but more on that other time. You’ll see I manually fed some cutting oil here to help the blade on the thicker material. And the good news is that not only did it go through the heavy material with no hassle, It produces a very nice cut- I’d also taken some time to set set up the vice on the saw so it was perpendicular to the blade. I’m pretty happy with that degree of accuracy. So, apart from recommissioning the coolant feed, and a bit of paint maybe, I’m good to go on the bench build really. I was going to make a couple go roller trestles to help with materials handling, but it turns out I have a pair of axle stands that are exactly the same height as the saw bed, so I don’t need to really. May still do it further down the line though.
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Last Edit: Feb 14, 2020 21:20:47 GMT by Dez
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Interesting rebuild Dez. I've got a similar type of saw in my classroom at school but the blade has been broken by a ham-fisted child before I started work there. I really must get on with ordering a new one...
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim 1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started. 1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 18, 2020 21:28:43 GMT
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Interesting rebuild Dez. I've got a similar type of saw in my classroom at school but the blade has been broken by a ham-fisted child before I started work there. I really must get on with ordering a new one... I found a load of blades in my (deceased) grandads shed when I went round to see my gran a few months back. God knows why he had them as there wasn’t any saw they’d fit, but they’re brand new enots ones from the ‘60s or so. Not sure if 10tpi is a bit aggressive but they seem to do ok.
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