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Jan 30, 2020 21:33:32 GMT
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Looking through the list of manufacturers and various models, there's love on here for a lot of them, but of those vehicles you've owned, what would you say was the pinnacle of that maker?
eg. Volkswagen - Golf Mk3 because they introduced the VR6. (haha, yes, I know that's a doubtful one with the Mk3 but hopefully you get the drift).
VW Beetle - last of the aircooled, parts are still very available.
etc. etc.
Could be a good reference guide for people looking for another RR but not sure where to start???
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tristanh
Part of things
Routinely bewildered
Posts: 990 
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Jan 30, 2020 22:54:34 GMT
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Mk3? Are you having a laugh? Mk2 G60, and the mk5 and mk7 are just awesome too.
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Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,245
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Horses for courses. We all like different things.
Me? They will ruffle feathers will my choices! But that's us!
BMW - E90 3 Series and dare I say it, E61 5 Series! However, the E46 is the 3 Series that has my heart. Enough of a tweak from the E36 to make it a much nicer car in many ways. If you are being objective, the E90 is better. The E61 for me is irrational, but it's the only generation that had an M5 with superb sounds thanks to that V10 howl, along with some superb punch in the lower echelons in the mix; the 535d and the 550i; I do adore the 535d; it's just such a superb mile muncher. E39 may win this one but I've always found them way too small for the credit of being a 5 series.
Mercedes: It's got to be the W124. I know what you folks are thinking; I'm mad. But bear with me. The W108s and W123 did look superb, but even for the day, they did drive a little old fashioned. The diffs were way too short in stock form, they rolled and pitched around compared to something like a Triumph Innsbruck/Stag, which was surprisingly good and the Jags of the day had the edge on driving dynamics. The W124 changed that. It had game-changing road manners, and yet somehow kept all of that wafty feeling! Sure, it didn't have the majestic look of its predecessors, but it wasn't meant to. It was all about Merc being objective in their goals and going above and beyond to surpass them. Yet somehow, it still has a soul.
Yes, I do love a W124.
Ford; It's got to be the 00s. The 60s on got things started very well and that continued for me in the 80s; things weren't quite right with the cars then but they were thrilling! Who cared if they weren't a 205 GTi? The late 90s changed that with the introduction of the Ka, which made the best of a dog's dinner of a breakfast for a chassis (sorry Mk3 Fiesta owners!), and where the Focus was spawned; Finally, the Escort's successor had a chassis that was very good even for a few years later!. For me, the Mk1 Focus is a car to watch. Not now but maybe in 10 years' time. God I miss my 1.6!
Others? Well they will come.
It's funny, I've not referenced the pinnacle of anything above from the last decade.
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Good thread! When it was at its zenith Jaguar coined the marketing catchphrase Grace, Pace & Space - which summed up the facts that their cars were handsome and had presence, that they were fast and they were comfortable. In 1968 Jaguar unveiled their new XJ6 and set the motoring world alight, it used the proven and capable XK6 engine and hosted a number of cutting edge automotive innovations. Motoring journalists were particularly complimentary about the ride quality and handling. From 1972 the XJ6 had a larger and more capable stablemate - the XJ12 which utilised Jaguar's 5.3 litre V12 engine which had been put into E-Types just the previous year. Imagine in 1972 stepping into this mobile gentleman's club, cocooned within the burr walnut, Connolly hide and Wilton wool interior. The engine is started, only the revs counter betrays this fact, the car had a 0-60mph time of 7.4 seconds and a maximum speed approaching 150mph, all this in perfect silence. It was capable of conveying the driver and 4 passengers in comfort, silence and at great speed but with sports car handling. It had a number of contemporary competitors from other luxury car makers including Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Mercedes-Benz, etc. The XJ12 was generally a more refined and capable motor car but it blew the competitors out of the water on price which was another Jaguar trademark. Contrast this with contemporary family cars of the Ford, Vauxhall, Triumph, etc. variety and you would have had a 0-60 time at least double that of the Jaguar, seeing 100mph on the speedometer would have been a dream and if you managed to squeeze 5 adults into the car it would have been a noisy and uncomfortable experience. When released it was THE fastest 4/5-seater car in the world, I have never heard the term Supercar applied to the XJ12 but it had to be a hair's breadth from being one, perhaps just a little too well-mannered? Also from the same stable; the Daimler Double-Six was, arguably, the better car as it had everything the XJ12 had but offered higher level trim options.  This particular example was owned by HRH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and now resides with the Jaguar Heritage collection. The only clue from this angle that this car has the potent V12 is the V badge in the centre of the grille. Why the series 1 XJ12? The series 1 XJ was of its time but now looks a bit slab-fronted, most would contend that later XJ saloons are prettier. It set the standard and set that bar high, the XJ saloon would endure in recognisable form for an incredible 41 years. The one thing that the series 1 cars had in spades was charisma and nowhere is this more evident that in the interior, it has the 'old Jaguar' ambience, a dashboard with the tidy rows of gauges and switches. By the time the series 2 came along ergonomics had interfered and the dash was an untidy mish-mash of gauges clustered around the steering wheel and switches scattered everywhere. It might have made for an easier driving experience but it just didn't look right. For a few decades in its heyday Jaguar was a world-leader in many instances, with the exception of low volume specialist models like the XJ220, the series 1 XJ12 was the last Jaguar model which was a game changer & a pace-setter which influenced and helped improve a later generation of BMWs, Mercs, Bentleys, etc. It was a bargain when new, it still is!  Jaguar XJ series 1 interior, this is an XJ6 which was Sir William Lyons' personal transport. Also with the Jaguar heritage Collection. |
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2020 2:36:55 GMT by MkX
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Cant disagree with the xj12.
Renault....all went shi£-shaped when they dropped numbers and started giving their offerings names.
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating
'80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip
'97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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It's funny, I've not referenced the pinnacle of anything above from the last decade. That's exactly my point. When I'm looking at cars now, I'm just wondering what was the best version of them and thought I would put it out here as there's a wealth of knowledge. |
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I've been looking at older smaller Audi's recently and have come to the following conclusion:
I'm torn between the Audi 80 being the last of the true old Audi smaller saloons but not sure whether I prefer the B2, B3, or B4 the most.
The B3 seems to be a warmed over B2 so not really a game-changer, and there's no comparison between the B2 and B4. Hmmm, a toughie!
Although a B3 onwards could be daily'ed quite easily imho.
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Jan 31, 2020 15:07:21 GMT
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Last of the proper ford light commercial vehicles was the LWB mk3 transit, leaf springs all round and if you choose the diesel option no ECU.
SWB versions got IFS so don't count.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:05:09 GMT
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BMC BL. A great thread and a difficult one to answer. Everyone will have their own idea based on their age or personal experience. Aside from the mini which would be the obvious answer I would have to say the farina range. I put my hand up and say that's a slightly bias answer but they come from a time before BL tried to over-complicate things with hydrolastic suspension in the 70's, and before the 80's when build quality was questionable and the cars dissolve quicker than a sugar cube. The farinas are pretty simple cars and share parts with many other BMC cars. If you are looking for a 60's sports car, plenty of people go for a MG midget or MGB, but if you are looking for a family saloon, why not?    Ok, not a Westminster Estate, just thought id include it because its cool as...… cant actually think of anything. |
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2020 20:40:18 GMT by bmcnut
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ovimor
North East
...It'll be ME!
Posts: 904
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Jan 31, 2020 18:23:13 GMT
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 Last one 'ricer'.... Import  .... bean-counters specced the UK built 'E'  OVIMOR |
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2020 18:24:07 GMT by ovimor
Knowledge is to know a Tomato is a 'fruit' - Wisdom, on the other hand, is knowing not to put it in a 'fruit salad'!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,925
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jan 31, 2020 19:33:22 GMT
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Last decent Vauxhall - Mk3 Astra
Last decent Ford - early Mk3 Mondeo/end of line Mk1 Focus
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Jan 31, 2020 20:44:40 GMT
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Fantastic thread idea! Subjective, partisan, illogical - perfect. First 3 from me... all mine and had a range of later models and some earlier ones (so not really informed at all) but heartfelt all the same . . .  - for the looks  - for the uncomplicated fun  - for the embodiment of compact sports saloon |
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Carbs 'n chrome
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Jan 31, 2020 21:23:40 GMT
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Great thread, last proper Mercedes c class The superb W202  |
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Fraud owners club member
2003 W211 Mercedes E class
1989 Sierra sapphire
1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Jan 31, 2020 21:25:33 GMT
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The last real cortina the mk2.  I’ve owned all the cortina range....ford lost it when they discarded the McPherson struts and leaf spring set up on the cortina |
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2020 21:35:54 GMT by Mercdan68
Fraud owners club member
2003 W211 Mercedes E class
1989 Sierra sapphire
1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Jan 31, 2020 22:16:20 GMT
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going back to the first not the last , the xj and mr2 highlight a long held belief of mine that the first incarnation of a particular model is usually the purest of its type. mk1 escort , mini , golf...s1 landover...2 door classic range rover..v1 impreza..original celica etc etc.
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating
'80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip
'97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,615
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Honda has 2001-02 as a major parting line.
Earlier ED-EK Civics & their matching Integras featured their more elaborate double wishbone front suspension that reverted to cheaper struts, and later even Jazz derived torsion beam rear axles as obvious examples of cost & 'easy' packaging choices, as their desirability started to wane, not that it did so suddenly enough to claim the following models were undesirable... but the replacements were not replaced as brand image and the desire for sporty models deteriorated further.... Looks and sporting low packaging were also hampered by the perceived need to add 4" in height for easy curtain-airbag packaging while the industry wide desire for greater crash-structure strength added weight. Meanwhile the NSX, CR-X & Prelude passed on without replacement, despite the desirability of the new S2000 and K-series engines.       |
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2020 5:42:41 GMT by 79cord
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I do like some modern Fords but the last Granada/Scorpio I would consider buying is the Mk3:  ..and also the Mk3 is probably the last Fiesta I would like to own:  |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,925
Club RR Member Number: 174
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I wouldn't say they're the last decent Honda. The last decent "sporty" Honda yes, but for doing run of the mill car stuff, even upto present day models they are the best.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Last decent Mercedes was the w114/115 series. Mostly cos it was about 15 years ahead of its time when it came out mechanically, but also because of the build quality. Any later Mercedes feels cheaply built in comparison (cos they were).
Last decent bmw was proably the e28 for the same reasons.
E30s are sort of ok but are a much different class of car and are compromised in a lot of ways because of it.
Last decent vw was the lupo, mostly because it was a hangover of the mk2/mk3 golf bloodline in mechanical terms. They’re a very simple car but pretty well made compared to their competitors. I think the styling has aged well too.
Last decent Nissan was the c32 laurel (last big/midsize rwd straight 6 saloon for the uk market). Well built, lots of options and plush interiors.
Or at the other end of the scale the k10 micra. Simple, effective and fairly solidly built.
Last decent Lincoln was the 4th gen Continental. If you want to experience the zenith of luxury motor car production, buy one of these. Amazing spec, no compromise luxury, sharp styling, technologically advanced, amazing build quality. They make rolls Royce/Bentley etc look like middle class saloons.
I have no interest in English fords, to me they’re all rubbish.
But proper American fords started to go downhill after the early 60s. I like first gen falcons, and they’re surprisingly nicely built for the period when rampant cost cutting was reducing build quality at a very fast rate, but I think they paid attention to it as they were going out on a bit of a limb getting Americans to buy a compact unibody to start with, so they knew they had to be well built.
I currently have a ‘50 shoebox and a ‘57 fairlane side by side in the workshop, and although the fairlane is better technologically than the shoebox, the build quality is shoddy in comparison. It’s all on hidden stuff, but the factory welding on the chassis of the fairlane gives me the eye twitch. Outside the fit and finish is great, but it’s obvious they dropped their standards on the bits less people look at.
But then both are poor compared to a pre-war car which is really nicely finished everywhere.
Even back in the 50s cars were turning from a mechanical wonder into a consumerist product.
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Last Edit: Feb 1, 2020 10:29:35 GMT by Dez
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Last decent Vauxhall - Mk3 Astra Last decent Ford - early Mk3 Mondeo/end of line Mk1 Focus Really? Questions like this are completely subjective so there are no real wrong answers but I am surprised at your comment on the Astra. I mean 90s Vauxhalls had a pretty poor reputation for reliability and build quality but then again if you had a decent one and looked after it then you would have had good experiences that influenced your decision. Maybe I'm just biased against them because of all those faded red rusty heaps on their last legs (wheels), like this:-  I suppose it also depends on how you define "decent" too. Is it based purely on performance and style, particularly the hot versions of the marque, or are we taking a more rounded view based on design, real world practicality, reliability, etc. If you've had actual experience of owning and driving the cars in question and their older and newer equivalents then I will concede that your answers have more weight than ones based on looks and what we've read in magazines and the web. I can agree that the MK1 Focus is a good car, better than the last of the Escorts, but I've no idea if it was the "last" good Ford. |
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