jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,921 
Club RR Member Number: 40
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1965 Clark Cortez jamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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Can I double check on you the bolts from home depot are the right strength ? I know they do more than B&Q do over here (got me some of their SAE ratchet spanners last time I was over) but just want to make sure you are covered.
Nice win, the other side still to do ?
James
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Can I double check on you the bolts from home depot are the right strength ? I know they do more than B&Q do over here (got me some of their SAE ratchet spanners last time I was over) but just want to make sure you are covered. Nice win, the other side still to do ? James I'll make a bet those are 8.8 |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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1965 Clark Cortez glenanderson
@glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member 64
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Washer(s).
Job done.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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1965 Clark Cortez glenanderson
@glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member 64
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Can I double check on you the bolts from home depot are the right strength ? I know they do more than B&Q do over here (got me some of their SAE ratchet spanners last time I was over) but just want to make sure you are covered. Nice win, the other side still to do ? James I'll make a bet those are 8.8 Yeah, this. ☝️ |
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Or just put a nyloc nut on it? A big thick washer looks like the order of the day there :-) I'd go for a washer or two as well. Well, this made me feel better. Thanks guys! Can I double check on you the bolts from home depot are the right strength ? I know they do more than B&Q do over here (got me some of their SAE ratchet spanners last time I was over) but just want to make sure you are covered. Nice win, the other side still to do ? James Can I double check on you the bolts from home depot are the right strength ? I know they do more than B&Q do over here (got me some of their SAE ratchet spanners last time I was over) but just want to make sure you are covered. Nice win, the other side still to do ? James I'll make a bet those are 8.8 I'll make a bet those are 8.8 Yeah, this. ☝️ AR$E, I didn't even think of this! The bolts are SAE Grade 5. Which, if I trust the randomly found table below it's equivilant to Grade 8.8? I'm going to assume I need Grade 8? Thank you all for looking out for us!  |
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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If your bolts are grade 5 then your list says they are appropriate for suspension and steering. I am sure that someone with far more knowledge than I will be along shortly  |
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Last Edit: Aug 10, 2021 0:13:16 GMT by wildrover
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That table showing the ratings is really useful for anyone not in the day to day business of nuts, bolts and stresses.
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8.8 will be fine, the worry is often the bolts sold in diy chains over here are ungraded. I would put some threadlock on the nuts though, there is a lot of vibration and flex in a complex joint like that which is likely to shake non locking nuts loose.
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All this talk about grades of bolts reminds me of that time I stuffed a friends Mk2 Escort into a guardrail.
I came around the corner on a track, the way a Mk2 likes to be driven, tail out & opposite lock.
Suddenly and inexplicably, the car jumped sideways and there was a deep imprint of guardrail along the entire side of my buddies car.
I felt horrible, although I didn't really understand what happened.
When we put the car on a trailer, it became clear the outside wheel's steering arm had fallen off.
So the wheel just flopped back and burried itself in the inner fender mid corner, making me a passenger.
The friend who owned the car had bought it from another friend who'd built it, and he'd put those steering arms on with cheap soft bolts instead of the correctly graded ones Ford uses.
I expected my friend ( the owner) to be upset, or at least unhappy.
He wasn't.
He had plans to take it to the big track the next weekend, where the speeds would have been much higher.
I guess he felt he'd dodged a bullet...
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Aug 10, 2021 13:20:24 GMT
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SAE 5 / 8.8 feel, taste, sound and smell different from the lower grade stuff.
Tap the lower grade ones together and they go CHIK. Tap these and they go CLINK.
DON'T taste them, that yellow cadmium coating isn't good for you.
Ditto sticking the bolt up your nose but they don't get the oxide coating that smells when you handle it.
But, all aside SAE 5 are good for that application- the old bolts will use the same lines marking system on top (none, 3, 6) and might still be visible, if you want to calm your nerves.
The English engineer in me says that's not enough thread in the nuts. The American engineer in me says that's acceptable.
As for the castellated nut, was it supplied with one? It should have been. The original nuts were usually taller, with more thread area. You should find that's a fairly standard thread, finding a taller nut shouldn't be too difficult, would suggest places that deal with trailers and such for slightly heavier duty nuts and bolts than HD sell.
Phil
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Last Edit: Aug 10, 2021 13:22:28 GMT by PhilA
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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If your bolts are grade 5 then your list says they are appropriate for suspension and steering. I am sure that someone with far more knowledge than I will be along shortly Thanks wildrover - This is kinda what I was thinking but honestly, I'm not sure about bolt grades at all! That table showing the ratings is really useful for anyone not in the day to day business of nuts, bolts and stresses. , yea there's a few different tables out there and it's not really something I've had to look into before. 8.8 will be fine, the worry is often the bolts sold in diy chains over here are ungraded. I would put some threadlock on the nuts though, there is a lot of vibration and flex in a complex joint like that which is likely to shake non locking nuts loose. Threadlock is a good idea, I know I've got a tube of it knocking about. All this talk about grades of bolts reminds me of that time I stuffed a friends Mk2 Escort into a guardrail. I came around the corner on a track, the way a Mk2 likes to be driven, tail out & opposite lock. Suddenly and inexplicably, the car jumped sideways and there was a deep imprint of guardrail along the entire side of my buddies car. I felt horrible, although I didn't really understand what happened. When we put the car on a trailer, it became clear the outside wheel's steering arm had fallen off. So the wheel just flopped back and burried itself in the inner fender mid corner, making me a passenger. The friend who owned the car had bought it from another friend who'd built it, and he'd put those steering arms on with cheap soft bolts instead of the correctly graded ones Ford uses. I expected my friend ( the owner) to be upset, or at least unhappy. He wasn't. He had plans to take it to the big track the next weekend, where the speeds would have been much higher. I guess he felt he'd dodged a bullet... That's crazy,I think both he and yourself were very lucky! I'm sure things could have been a whole lot worse! SAE 5 / 8.8 feel, taste, sound and smell different from the lower grade stuff. Tap the lower grade ones together and they go CHIK. Tap these and they go CLINK. DON'T taste them, that yellow cadmium coating isn't good for you. Ditto sticking the bolt up your nose but they don't get the oxide coating that smells when you handle it. But, all aside SAE 5 are good for that application- the old bolts will use the same lines marking system on top (none, 3, 6) and might still be visible, if you want to calm your nerves. The English engineer in me says that's not enough thread in the nuts. The American engineer in me says that's acceptable. As for the castellated nut, was it supplied with one? It should have been. The original nuts were usually taller, with more thread area. You should find that's a fairly standard thread, finding a taller nut shouldn't be too difficult, would suggest places that deal with trailers and such for slightly heavier duty nuts and bolts than HD sell. Phil I know you said not too but I may have a cheeky taste test... I'm the kind of idiot that tests 9V batteries with my tongue! I'll try to resist and go for the clink / chik test instead. Before I go any further with anything I'll check over the old bolts to look at the markings. I agree about the bolt length, the ones provided with the new ball joint were actually too short, the ones we fitted were the same length as the original bolts but with the flange of the ball joint being slightly thicker the bottom of the bolt just comes to the end of the nut - I might see about some slightly longer ones... maybe. The castellated nut was supplied with the new ball joint. I've still got the old nut so I will check them against each other and go from there. _ Thank you all so much for your help and advice! I honestly really apprecaite it! Andy (and L) |
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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That's crazy,I think both he and yourself were very lucky! I'm sure things could have been a whole lot worse! The lucky one was my passenger. We hit the guardrail on his side... |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,880
Club RR Member Number: 39
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1965 Clark Cortez Darkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Is that black outer part a hard thin plastic over the rubber boot? |
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Aug 11, 2021 10:13:43 GMT
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for the bolts you could ditch the washers, you only really need them when bolting up thin or soft metals to spread the load and if they are the spring type that used to be fitted to stop nuts coming undone it was found they did the opposite hence why nobody has used them in production for 30 odd years.
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Aug 11, 2021 12:28:13 GMT
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Is that black outer part a hard thin plastic over the rubber boot? It does look like it doesn't it? If so it needs to be removed. |
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Aug 11, 2021 12:39:09 GMT
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yes it looks like the protectors they fit as part of the packaging, left like that surely it will fill up with dirt and wear the gaiter away.
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Aug 13, 2021 12:31:43 GMT
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Guys... Come on! Of course I've not left a plastic cap on the ball-joint! It's the rubber boot.
(I know it doesn't look like it's sat right, it's not for some reason, I need to look at it more)
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Last Edit: Aug 13, 2021 12:45:35 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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Aug 14, 2021 10:09:44 GMT
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Are you sure ??  No offense intended ... |
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Last Edit: Aug 14, 2021 10:10:41 GMT by westbay
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Aug 23, 2021 21:53:07 GMT
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Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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LAndy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,061
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Aug 30, 2021 13:38:50 GMT
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Ey up y'all! Time for some more Cortez updates. Fortunately today's story is one forward and only one back! - We have to consider this a success these days! After a couple of weeks off the Cortez yesterday we returned to complete the upper ball joint on the passengers side, with everything tightened back up and in place the boot is now sitting a lot better and flat so is sealing - which was a relief. While working on the passenger side suspension we also adjusted the torsion bar, which took our front ride height from 790mm (top of arch to floor) to 820mm. With that done (and still more adjustment available in the future)we decided to do the drivers side. It was during this that I discovered this BS...  The drivers side lower ball joint has now failed (There's also a split on the back side of it)! This must have happened recently as we've been in and out of the wheel arches for months and not noticed it before. L was not impressed!  Fortunately, now we have the right tools we quickly set about removing the old ball joint - We now have a new rule -- If something is broke and we're not 100% sure on the replacement part we remove it first, then purchase. It came out pretty easy with only the pin causing us some issue due to being so old and rusty, we ended up just undoing the nut and shearing the pin. Our OTC ball joint separator made relatively light work of the job, had to really crank some pressure through it this time! Though it did need a little persuading into position!   As usual the Cortez demanded a sacrifice and as usual it was I that ended up offering myself.  Nothing too serious, the Cortez was obviously in a giving mood yesterday. Soon enough it was out.  (This is L's hand, I haven't painted my nails in a while!) ... We never did adjust the torsion bar! Once back home we discovered that - as usual - this part is hard to find and is generally accepted as NLA. Fortunately for me some random Californian on Ebay happened to have two, so I got them both, now we just need to wait for them to arrive. |
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Last Edit: Aug 30, 2021 13:41:20 GMT by LAndy
Previous retros: 92 AX GTi 92 Scirocco Scala 94 80 sport 87 Golf Cab GTi Current retro: 1965 Clark Cortez YouTube Website Instagram |
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