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Jan 15, 2020 11:09:00 GMT
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Fair enough if that's your intention.
If a meter has been wired it's really obvious so that isn't the issue, the normal process disconnecting is to pull the incoming fuse where it connects to the mains. It's possible that this had been done but someone has replaced the fuse livening it up.
Earthing via an earth stake is normal but you may not need it depending on the incoming supply, it won't do any harm though.
The second meter could well be connected via the first if they were planning on charging the second unit on what they used rather than giving them a completely independent separate supply.
Not sure what the regs say about commercial installations for what needs signing off and what doesn't, if it looks basically sound (or you can make it so) you could have a periodic test done which will show up any problems and give you peace of mind against it frying anybody.
It's it a 3 phase supply? It may well be which would be handy for commercial use. If you stick up some photos of the incoming side where the meter tails connect it may help.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2020 11:09:53 GMT by dodgerover
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Jan 15, 2020 11:50:10 GMT
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Splitting the building into two units does put a different slant on the situation. Still, I reckon it's important to write to them, nothing like a hard copy that's dated & signed for.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Jan 15, 2020 14:09:11 GMT
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I'd say Woofwoof is correct in his approach. A cautionary tale: A (shady) businessman near me owned several nightclubs, he decided he wanted to offer catering from one of these. At some point during the early '80s the gas main near him was being renewed, he knew a few of the guys on the work detail and bribed them to run off an unmetered supply to his premises. During the 1980s this business grew, it had a large kitchen catering night and day using 'free' gas, he built a motel on the side of it using his 'free' gas to heat the rooms. After a few years the gas board were in a panic, they had hundreds of cubic metres of gas unaccounted for and were convinced they had a major gas leak, they systematically dug up every main in the area to inspect and made their discovery of this unauthorised supply. Circa 1990 this businessman received a bill for over £80K's worth of stolen gas and was given the option to pay up or to go to court for theft of a service where he would likely be jailed and still have to pay up. I understand the situations are different, he wilfully engineered this situation whereas you have inherited it. I have had much the same conversation very recently with my brother who has bought a commercial unit with a running water supply & sewerage connected but the water board insists it is not on service. Just cover yourself by being able to prove you've done everything you should realistically have done so it doesn't bite you in the posterior one day in the distant future!
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2020 15:32:49 GMT by MkX
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Jan 15, 2020 15:01:40 GMT
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I'd say Woofwoof is correct in his approach. A cautionary tale: A (shady) businessman near me owned several nightclubs, he decided he wanted to offer catering from one of these. At some point during the early '80s the gas main near him was being renewed, he knew a few of the guys on the work detail and bribed them to run off an unmetered supply to his premises. During the 1980s this business grew, it had a large kitchen catering night and day using 'free' gas, he built a motel on the side of it using his 'free' gas to heat the rooms. After a few years the gas board were in a panic, they had hundreds of cubic metres of gas unaccounted for and were convinced they had a major gas leak, they systematically dug up every main in the area to inspect and made their discovery of this unauthorised supply. Circa 1990 this businessman received a bill for over £80K's worth of stolen gas and was given the option to pay up or to go to court for theft of a service where he would likely be jailed and still have to pay up. I understand the situations are different, he wilfully engineered this situation whereas you have inherited it. I have had much the same conversation very recently with my brother who has bought a commercial unit with a running water supply & sewerage connected but the water board insists it is not on service. Just cover yourself by being able to prove you've done everything you should realistically have done so it doesn't bite you in the posterior one day in the distant future! Lol, Birmingham by any chance?
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Jan 15, 2020 15:27:17 GMT
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I'd say Woofwoof is correct in his approach. A cautionary tale: A (shady) businessman near me owned several nightclubs, he decided he wanted to offer catering from one of these. At some point during the early '80s the gas main near him was being renewed, he knew a few of the guys on the work detail and bribed them to run off an unmetered supply to his premises. During the 1980s this business grew, it had a large kitchen catering night and day using 'free' gas, he built a motel on the side of it using his 'free' gas to heat the rooms. After a few years the gas board were in a panic, they had hundreds of cubic metres of gas unaccounted for and were convinced they had a major gas leak, they systematically dug up every main in the area to inspect and made their discovery of this unauthorised supply. Circa 1990 this businessman received a bill for over £80K's worth of stolen gas and was given the option to pay up or to go to court for theft of a service where he would likely be jailed and still have to pay up. I understand the situations are different, he wilfully engineered this situation whereas you have inherited it. I have had much the same conversation very recently with my brother who has bought a commercial unit with a running water supply & sewerage connected but the water board insists it is not on service. Just cover yourself by being able to prove you've done everything you should realistically have done so it doesn't bite you in the posterior one day in the distant future! Lol, Birmingham by any chance? Llantrisant, although I'm sure Brum has its fair share of shady nightclub proprietors!
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Jan 15, 2020 16:46:05 GMT
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I'd say Woofwoof is correct in his approach. A cautionary tale: A (shady) businessman near me owned several nightclubs, he decided he wanted to offer catering from one of these. At some point during the early '80s the gas main near him was being renewed, he knew a few of the guys on the work detail and bribed them to run off an unmetered supply to his premises. During the 1980s this business grew, it had a large kitchen catering night and day using 'free' gas, he built a motel on the side of it using his 'free' gas to heat the rooms. After a few years the gas board were in a panic, they had hundreds of cubic metres of gas unaccounted for and were convinced they had a major gas leak, they systematically dug up every main in the area to inspect and made their discovery of this unauthorised supply. Circa 1990 this businessman received a bill for over £80K's worth of stolen gas and was given the option to pay up or to go to court for theft of a service where he would likely be jailed and still have to pay up. I understand the situations are different, he wilfully engineered this situation whereas you have inherited it. I have had much the same conversation very recently with my brother who has bought a commercial unit with a running water supply & sewerage connected but the water board insists it is not on service. Just cover yourself by being able to prove you've done everything you should realistically have done so it doesn't bite you in the posterior one day in the distant future! Ahhh, the heady days of John Bright Street by any chance? Lol, Birmingham by any chance? Llantrisant, although I'm sure Brum has its fair share of shady nightclub proprietors! Oh right. Not John Bright Street then.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2020 16:49:01 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 15, 2020 16:47:42 GMT
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Edit: Deleted. Condensed into previous post.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2020 16:48:40 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 15, 2020 19:43:28 GMT
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Edit: Deleted. Condensed into previous post. You were thinking of the same person as me then, co incidence that fire happens when it was up for redevelopment. Many a drunken hour got spent in Edwards, the Foundry and Sinatra's before it got made into the posh wine bar but kept the drinks prices the same.
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Jan 15, 2020 19:53:07 GMT
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Edit: Deleted. Condensed into previous post. You were thinking of the same person as me then, co incidence that fire happens when it was up for redevelopment. Many a drunken hour got spent in Edwards, the Foundry and Sinatra's before it got made into the posh wine bar but kept the drinks prices the same. Yes, same. The notorious family of Brum's nightlife. My time around there was in the mid 80's, so the family's portfolio consisted of Edward's no7 (winebar) Edward's no8 (Nightclub), and on the opposite corner Boogies Brasserie (wine bar) and Boogies (nightclub). Villa fans occupied Edward's, Blues fans were in Boogies. The fights were in the street between them at turning out time. I was telling @elkyholic on here about those days and in particular about a bouncer called Nobby. I wont say exactly why I was telling Elky about Nobby on a public forum, but I wonder if Nobby was still a prominent feature on the doors in later years, and for the same reasons. I left for London in 1989 and never had another night out in brum after that.
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Last Edit: Jan 15, 2020 19:54:50 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 15, 2020 19:58:52 GMT
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I would have been there 90-94. I've been back a few times but it changed so much I don't know anywhere now. curse word knows what happened to my life, this isn't how the future was supposed to be.
Sorry to the OP for clogging up his thread.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,010
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Jan 15, 2020 21:27:52 GMT
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I've not been paying for electricity and gas for a few years, despite making every effort to do so. The previous tenant had an account with Scottish Power and I had all the relevant details like customer number, meter numbers, meter readings etc. For whatever reason they still couldn't get it sorted, despite me phoning and emailing them (well, their call centre in India) periodically. After a year or so I've told them I gave up, to which they once again replied they'd get it sorted "shortly". Nothing noticeable happened of course.
About three years later I got a letter from a bailiff, requesting a large sum of money. To be paid immediately. I called them up and explained what efforts I'd made to pay my bills. They were very friendly and told me this happened all the time. After I put down the phone I called Scottish Power again, and lo and behold, they did indeed get it sorted very quickly this time. They could only legally back-bill a year (that may be different for commercial properties?) and they offered me a very reasonable payment plan. A week later I was with a different supplier anyway...
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Jan 15, 2020 23:16:55 GMT
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I've not been paying for electricity and gas for a few years, despite making every effort to do so. The previous tenant had an account with Scottish Power and I had all the relevant details like customer number, meter numbers, meter readings etc. For whatever reason they still couldn't get it sorted, despite me phoning and emailing them (well, their call centre in India) periodically. After a year or so I've told them I gave up, to which they once again replied they'd get it sorted "shortly". Nothing noticeable happened of course. About three years later I got a letter from a bailiff, requesting a large sum of money. To be paid immediately. I called them up and explained what efforts I'd made to pay my bills. They were very friendly and told me this happened all the time. After I put down the phone I called Scottish Power again, and lo and behold, they did indeed get it sorted very quickly this time. They could only legally back-bill a year (that may be different for commercial properties?) and they offered me a very reasonable payment plan. A week later I was with a different supplier anyway... Scottish Power are fairly notorious for stuff like this, I had a case at work (I'm a junior solicitor...it was an accident!) With them, similar issue for a period of about 5 years. Lots of written evidence required. I also have had a fair few people trying to bring legal cases about strips of land such as that to the side of the unit. Usually I tell then to p!ss off but the law on it is old and as precise as a brick. Only when a boundary has had final determination by a court is actually fixed. Boundaries in UK law can move about, even if they're walls, and title plans are subject to the general boundaries rule and as such are simply to illustrate one title against another. The original deed is he best document, but is often erroneous or lost. It is possible that it was just a bit of land that was simply forgotten, happens quite a fair bit, but most likey will belong to one or other of the properties nearby. However, as said best left alone as it isn't worth hassle. I've seen people try and litigate over land that fits under a sheet of A4 (that is genuinely true). I hate it (I'm not a particularly successful lawyer, no interest in cr@p!) Anyway, awesome garage as I've said, rather envious, gates look awesome.
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2020 8:03:13 GMT by s1105117
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Jan 15, 2020 23:53:50 GMT
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As said above, if you are going to possibly rent half out then that is different. I'd want the electric checked & sorted as well.
Write letters & send registered mail, then keep using the utilities as stated you then have evidence that you have tried to be correct & above board.
Utility companies are useless, we moved business premises 20 months ago, our old unit was flattened and a new site built on it.
We kept getting letters and phone calls for meter readings, and they wanted the meter returned! They could not accept that we had left the site and it no longer existed. The power supply belonged to the landlord anyway, and they could not understand why we would not give a meter reading!!
We got it sorted eventually but god it was like dealing with a brick wall.
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As above, but make sure to keep dated copies of anything you send to utilities, things have a habit of going missing or not being delivered, even signed for Ask me how I know.....🤔
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Jan 16, 2020 13:53:49 GMT
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Fair enough if that's your intention. If a meter has been wired it's really obvious so that isn't the issue, the normal process disconnecting is to pull the incoming fuse where it connects to the mains. It's possible that this had been done but someone has replaced the fuse livening it up. Earthing via an earth stake is normal but you may not need it depending on the incoming supply, it won't do any harm though. The second meter could well be connected via the first if they were planning on charging the second unit on what they used rather than giving them a completely independent separate supply. Not sure what the regs say about commercial installations for what needs signing off and what doesn't, if it looks basically sound (or you can make it so) you could have a periodic test done which will show up any problems and give you peace of mind against it frying anybody. It's it a 3 phase supply? It may well be which would be handy for commercial use. If you stick up some photos of the incoming side where the meter tails connect it may help. No 3-phase - i'll get around to covering the electrical side of things in a future post, hopefully with a bit of news from the supplier. Interestingly enough I was buzzed by a low-flying helicopter a while back (it was like something out of Apocalypse Now) which turned out to be National Grid checking the overhead supply lines. Apparently they fly along the overhead wires with a thermal imaging camera, and problems show up as hot spots. They literally followed the drop wire right up to my building, and hovered above it. I didn't know whether to wave or take cover!
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Jan 16, 2020 15:07:23 GMT
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I think it's time to have a close look at the toilet. At some point a lean-to extension was built on to the back of my garage, to make a space for a toilet. It wasn't built very well, and just to make matters worse when the roof was renewed a few years ago the toilet roof was dismantled but never put back. I think this was probably because the then-owners discovered that the main support beam was rotten. Possibly they planned to replace it, but that was never done. It's still there, still rotten. The roof slates are stacked up inside the garage...and the toilet itself has been open to the sky ever since. The space did scrub up quite well, and the toilet itself does flush (with a bucket of water). I assume the flush ends up in the cesspit, but as the cesspit has been partly filled with gravel it's not really possible to check if the pipework is functioning correctly. Still, the water is going somewhere...The only access to the toilet was a silly little door - about four feet high - which had been let into the wall between the toilet and the extension-part of the garage. I would like to replace this with a less-silly door suitable for humans, not hobbits, and in any case the brickwork was pretty shaky. So a certain amount of demolition took place. The brickwork could simply be pushed over by hand. Of course, full PPE was worn at all times. Here's the rotten toilet roof beam. I don't dare remove it, because I suspect that one bolt, which attaches the toilet roof beam to a main roof beam, is the only thing that's stopping the entire extension-part of the building from folding up. Once I get some Acrow props in strategic locations, it can be carefully dismantled. But for now, it has to stay. Silly little doorway (and surrounding brickwork) demolished. Temporary wooden support added to shore up sagging beam. There's a brick wall - the back wall of the building, such as it is - under all that ivy. The roof of the building slopes right down to about 3 feet off the ground at the back, meaning I've got lots of floor space but no headroom. The view through the roof. The toilet (and indeed most of the main building) backs directly on to my neighbour's garden. I don't have any access to the rear unless I ask him. That's not really a problem - I shouldn't need to access the back wall very much - but it's going to make things a little awkward when I build a new toilet roof. Originally the eaves overhung his garden, but I'd like the new roof to be fully on my side. So I think I'm going to tweak the design a little bit, rather than just doing a like-for-like replacement. By the way, the tent that is just visible in my neighbour's garden is his work space. Apparently this is the only place he can get a Wi-Fi signal, so he sits out here with his laptop - or, at least, he was doing that during the summer. Not sure what he does in the winter. Personally, I would've just put up a booster of some kind. Maybe an aerial installed somewhere high up in his house would work. A tent next to an open-air toilet is a workaround, not a solution! Nobody had cleaned out the gutters for a few years, so I scraped out the accumulated compost. Looking in the opposite direction, over the slate roof of the main building. Re-roofed in about 2011 by the motorcycle mechanic's girlfriend, I'm told, and she did a good job. She seems to have dropped her mug, though. I thought the most painless method of cleaning out this gutter, given that I have no access at ground level, would be to pull out the mess with a set of drain rods, which I've got at home. But before I could return to the site with the rods we had a few days of heavy rain, and the next time I was at the garage I was told by the neighbour that the gutter had overflowed and caused all sorts of flooding in his garden. I stood there looking suitably sorry about it all, but I suspected he was laying on the drama a bit thick. One of the things he mentioned was that my gutter had no stop-end, thus causing lots of water to cascade down his shed roof. He told me he had gone out and bought a stop-end....and then he paused expectantly, presumably so I could jump in and say, "Oh, cheers, mate, I'll reimburse you for that." But I didn't say that. Because I don't think he bought a stop-end at all. There's quite clearly one already in place in this photo! Here's my idea for rebuilding the toilet. I'm going to build a new lean-to building just inside the footprint of the present one. The bits of wood on the floor here show roughly where the walls will go. This will create a narrow pathway around the outside of the building, giving me a bit of outside access at the rear where at present there is none. The existing walls will be reduced in height and remain as boundary walls. Obviously the toilet will become smaller, but that's no problem. It's a toilet. It doesn't need to be a massive space. The brickwork on the existing lean-to walls is fairly terrible, but that doesn't matter. This will be nothing more than the back garden wall eventually, and further down the brickwork is good enough for that. I'm going to take the top few courses off, and cap it off with some coping slabs. Somebody had covered the tops of the walls with sheets of lead - presumably a temporary measure until they got the roof back on. But the roof never went back on, so the temporary repair became permanent. In this pic you can see I've added a downpipe which eventually will discharge into some sort of gulley in my new back path. Exact drainage arrangements are still tbc, but the pipe will be outside the building, not inside, in the end. Well, as I always say, if you've got a soggy piece of wood handy, you're never stuck for a screwdriver holder. New downpipe, old everything else. The toilet itself and the basin will have to be moved, of course - and I'd like to know where all those pipes go. I'll be keeping the blue basin, of course. That's a fine period detail!
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brachunky
Scotland
Posts: 1,339
Club RR Member Number: 72
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Jan 16, 2020 15:36:28 GMT
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What about fitting a simple shower incase you are all sweaty in the summer?!!
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Jan 16, 2020 15:56:53 GMT
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What about fitting a simple shower incase you are all sweaty in the summer?!! Definitely part of the plan!
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Jan 16, 2020 19:28:33 GMT
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Not sure what space you have in that loo but you may want to check if there are any regulations you need to comply with if it will be used by the unit you intend to rent regarding minimum size plus door width and disabled access, at present you should have grandfather rights and not have to comply but the 'new' unit bit may have to. The septic tank that's full of gravel, that couldn't be an old bulk petrol tank could it? The insurance people sometimes used to insist on them being backfilled before they would issue cover. If not I can't think why it would have gravel in it unless it managed to wash in from somewhere? Or it has been replaced by another one somewhere else? Chucking a bottle of food colouring in the toilet and flushing would let you check it isn't discharging straight into the stream. You could build up the outside of the toilet roof wall higher then have the rain running into the same existing gutter? I would normally say avoid internal gulley's like the plague but in this case it would gain you a bit of extra head room in the lean to and probably give the height for a shower against the new wall? When you rebuild if you don't need to reuse the bricks I would go up in high density concrete blocks - it will be so much quicker. Interestingly enough I was buzzed by a low-flying helicopter a while back (it was like something out of Apocalypse Now) which turned out to be National Grid checking the overhead supply lines. Apparently they fly along the overhead wires with a thermal imaging camera, and problems show up as hot spots. They literally followed the drop wire right up to my building, and hovered above it. I didn't know whether to wave or take cover! As well as looking for faults they would be looking for stolen power running cannabis grow rooms, an isolated industrial unit where the power is supposedly off would be a reasonably obvious target, they were probably checking the entire place wasn't glowing red hot from the lamps running from a bypassed meter.....
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2020 19:36:35 GMT by dodgerover
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Earth Rocker
Part of things
Among the living.....Just!!!
Posts: 215
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Jan 16, 2020 22:17:39 GMT
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Keep the updates coming, really enjoying it..
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