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"Fences built on the roadside should be built with the spars on the non road side of the post."
Does anyone actually do this? It would look like ar5e, especially if the palings were on the non road side of the spars which logically they would have to be in order to avoid the same non breakaway issue. Even if they weren't it would look slightly weird.
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I don't think insurance would be interested in a mod to a brake adjuster cam - not that they would look for it if it actually makes the brakes work properly. You’d think so, but one of the insurance companies was trying to charge extra for people fitting winter tyres a while ago because it was ‘a modification ‘! WTF.....? |
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 I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier but the way you have constructed your fence leaves you liable if a vehicle goes through it and one of your spars 'spears' the occupants. Fences built on the roadside should be built with the spars on the non road side of the post. This is because if a vehicle breaks the fence then the spars break away with the vehicle. If not then when the vehicle breaks through there can be no where for the spar to go and it ends up entering the vehicle. There was a while back when a child died in a Ferrari ? which was on private ground and he was taken for a run and the vehicle went through a fence like this and the spar entered the vehicle causing a fatality. I've briefly looked for the guidance on this but I can't find it as (I'm a retired road safety officer with local authority experience).but I urge you to be aware of this. Not sure about that chap. I would have thought that any legal claim like that would fail on foreseeability, as well as causation and the remoteness of loss. I would be interested to hear of a case like you describe I must say, not disputing what your saying, as I have never heard of such a case either way, but whilst I acknowledge the law is fairly thick quite a lot of the time, to imply negligence depending on the side of a post wooden rails are mounted sounds far too a high burden to me. It's also a nice fence  |
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2020 19:30:20 GMT by s1105117
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I don't think insurance would be interested in a mod to a brake adjuster cam - not that they would look for it if it actually makes the brakes work properly. You’d think so, but one of the insurance companies was trying to charge extra for people fitting winter tyres a while ago because it was ‘a modification ‘! WTF.....? Really?? FFS the worlds gone mad. |
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We used to supply the local council with "plastic wood" for fence panels, and when erected I used to get sent out to photograph them for the company brochure and website, they were all built (by the council) on the road side of the posts. This was only a couple of years ago.
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I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier but the way you have constructed your fence leaves you liable if a vehicle goes through it and one of your spars 'spears' the occupants. Fences built on the roadside should be built with the spars on the non road side of the post. This is because if a vehicle breaks the fence then the spars break away with the vehicle. If not then when the vehicle breaks through there can be no where for the spar to go and it ends up entering the vehicle. There was a while back when a child died in a Ferrari ? which was on private ground and he was taken for a run and the vehicle went through a fence like this and the spar entered the vehicle causing a fatality. I've briefly looked for the guidance on this but I can't find it as (I'm a retired road safety officer with local authority experience).but I urge you to be aware of this. That’s never gonna happen. For a start there’s about a 4 ft drop from the road height, so when/if a car goes through & then lands on its roof, is that his fault too? I’ve never heard such nonsense. For a start if someone goes through it, they are obviously negligent in the first place for curse word driving |
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I don't think insurance would be interested in a mod to a brake adjuster cam - not that they would look for it if it actually makes the brakes work properly. No but the Old Bill will if the vehicle is involved in a serious enough collision, I would have before I retired, it's an easy check. Then the insurance company might jump in on the report. |
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74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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I am quite prepared to be proved wrong, but it is my understanding that if you fence a boundary then the posts are on your side. Hundreds of miles of fencing in Northumberland including “A” roads all with rails to the road. Same with wire fences.
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Really?? FFS the worlds gone mad. 'this true - a couple of years ago at insurance renewal time I admitted I'd fitted locking wheelnuts, the broker had to go away and check if that was classed as a chargeable modification  Anyways, back on topic - keep up the good work & updates  |
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ftz313
Part of things
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I’m ex council road safety with substantial experience in accident investigation work & everything else that goes with that. I hold qualifications in road safety (admittedly most people don’t know such a thing exists) & if I were safety auditing this site I’d force you to change it or issue an instruction & charge you sadly if you didn’t comply.
You are leaving yourself liable to prosecution should there be an incident & I also note there’s some yellow backed chevrons at the site-so it’s obviously an area of concern.
It’s also worth commenting that not all incidents are a result of negligent driving & can be for ex medical.
I’m genuinely trying to help as this was my ‘trade’ before I retired a couple of years ago. Sorry to be a bore.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2020 20:07:35 GMT by ftz313
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Do you have any statistics that back this up? IE a number of deaths directly related to being impaled by a fence post during a crash? I cant believe with councils whinging about tightening budgets they employ someone specifically to check which way around theyve mounted their fence, on their property. If he had built a 3 foot thick wall there with no give whatsoever, resulting in death if hit hard enough would that constitute a problem with the council as well? Or should we just line all our properties with tyres now so idiots and drunk drivers can bimble on their way after a knock? Sorry to rant, I just cant believe there is a department pulling chaps like this who are improving the area over something so trivial. If your going fast enough to be impaled I'd be more worried about the drop.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2020 20:15:04 GMT by astranaut
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Its funny to read about the level of spares choice for the Landie...
In contrast.
I own an escort 1972 Estate) and its either not available new, its for an RS (££££), or its a "Rally" part (£££)
I got sick of it. My slave cylinders are spec'd for the Hyundai Accent. My lights are RING 7" cos "escort" ones are x4 times the money.
Tedious but it means I can keep it going.
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Are you able to reference the relevant legislation please? As a roading engineer's draughtsman of twenty years experience I find this interesting. Our standard detail for roadside safety fences (as an aid to visibility of hazards, not guardrail) has 6x4 timber posts with 8x2 timber rails on the roadward side of the posts.  |
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If that is a genuine worry then should it not be the authority's responsibility to erect Armco on the corner to protect from the drop? I doubt it was an issue before the highways authority changed the layout and raised the level of the road.
Looked on the M23 this morning and there's a mix, where it is holding back livestock its on the inside of the field to stop animals simply popping the rails off by leaning on them, some is morticed post and rail with the rails in the centre of the post and some is rails to the road.
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In my previous day job for a specialist civil engineering contactor (senior management) we worked with numerous local authorities & national government authorities (primarily The Environment Agency) alongside many other trust based organisations such has English Heritage, National Trust, Natural England, Canal & River Trust - our main role was river, canal & water body engineering - many of our contracts required hundreds of metres of post & rail fencing to be erected where roads, pavements & paths were within close proximity of the river / canal / water body - never have I come across such a specification / reasoning or instruction to install fences for the reason given - I don't however dismiss the fact that it doesn't happen either - but rather than explain further - you would be better watching the investigation of this isolated motorway incident that was recently screened by the beeb - its quite sobering www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000dws5/the-crash-detectives-series-2-episode-2 |
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2020 22:08:17 GMT by Deleted
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I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier but the way you have constructed your fence leaves you liable if a vehicle goes through it and one of your spars 'spears' the occupants. Fences built on the roadside should be built with the spars on the non road side of the post. This is because if a vehicle breaks the fence then the spars break away with the vehicle. If not then when the vehicle breaks through there can be no where for the spar to go and it ends up entering the vehicle. There was a while back when a child died in a Ferrari ? which was on private ground and he was taken for a run and the vehicle went through a fence like this and the spar entered the vehicle causing a fatality. I've briefly looked for the guidance on this but I can't find it as (I'm a retired road safety officer with local authority experience).but I urge you to be aware of this. Well, putting the rails on the side facing the road may under rare circumstances not count as best practice....but it's certainly general practice. As you can see from this photo, my fence exactly matches the one across the road: fence rails on the outside. In fact, it matches every post and rail fence in the area. When I was preparing my own fence I went on a kind of fact-finding tour of the local fences, to see how other people had done it, so I could follow the local fence vernacular. I actually found a huge amount of variation in terms of overall height, rail spacing, post arrangements at corners, etc, but the one common feature everybody seemed to go for was - rails on the outside.  A swift fence tour via Google Streetview shows that rails-on-the-outside is pretty much the standard method. Just looking at the route I take to drive from London to my garage in Wales, I find these selected highlights... Here's a fence on the Bath Road at Colnbrook, Middlesex, on the slip road at Junction 3 of the M4, and a fence on the approach to the M50 bridge at Dymock in Gloucestershire. All have rails facing the traffic. On this stretch of the A438 at Clyro, Powys there's a fence with rails facing the carriageway on both sides. Crumbs, it's double fence-jeopardy! They'll be calling this stretch of road Death Alley! On this section of the A419 at Swindon, there's a post and rail fence between two carriageways - so one road gets fence rails on the outside, the other road gets fence rails on the inside. Presumably, if you crash your car through the fence on the rails-facing side, you can sue Highways England for culpable fence-negligence....but not if you crash through the fence from the other side. A nice little legal distinction there. You'd think someone would have invented a fence with neutrally-positioned rails for this kind of situation, wouldn't you? On the M4 itself, most of the fences alongside the motorway have rails facing away from the carriageway, except at locations where a watercourse goes under the motorway in a culvert. At these places extra sections of fence have been added, some very recently judging by the colour of the wood. These sections of fence run much closer to the carriageway - and they have the rails facing the traffic. There's a lot of new construction along the M4. It's in the process of being converted to a Smart Motorway. Presumably this will make accidents so much less likely to happen that they don't need to worry about which side the fence rails go on any more. There's no legal obligation to put fence rails on one side or another, and evidently, out there in the real world, no best practice method of doing it, either. It's a fencing free-for-all. I suppose it's possible that if a car went out of control on the corner by my garage, and if the car then mounted the pavement on the inside of the bend, and if it then yomped over the stone wall (not fully built yet, but it will be soon), and then if it smashed though the fence, and if a fence rail became detached, and if that rail came off at an angle which allowed it to go through the car window or windscreen, and if it then caused injury to the occupants of the car..... ....then, I suppose, it's possible that an opportunistic lawyer might spot a chance to sue me for putting my fence rails on the 'wrong' side. But, frankly, I think the chances of that scenario playing out are so remote I'm perfectly happy to take the risk. There must be many thousands of miles of post and rail fence alongside roads which have rails on the 'wrong' side, including some stretches of 'wrong side rails' fences that have been put up very recently by the road authorities themselves. I've got less than 40 feet of fence. I don't think I'm the problem here. |
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Belleville washers are made out of spring steel and are dished or coned. You can use them back to back in a stack ,or singularly to act like a spring . We use them on sheet metal punching machines to be solid,ie coilbound when you punch,but then to act like a spring to retract the punch after the hole has been punched. Used singularly it’s like an anti rattle spring that applies a bit of tension to the parts it fits in between. A glorified low height spring. 😊
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2020 5:18:18 GMT by Deleted
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I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier but the way you have constructed your fence leaves you liable if a vehicle goes through it and one of your spars 'spears' the occupants. Fences built on the roadside should be built with the spars on the non road side of the post. This is because if a vehicle breaks the fence then the spars break away with the vehicle. If not then when the vehicle breaks through there can be no where for the spar to go and it ends up entering the vehicle. There was a while back when a child died in a Ferrari ? which was on private ground and he was taken for a run and the vehicle went through a fence like this and the spar entered the vehicle causing a fatality. I've briefly looked for the guidance on this but I can't find it as (I'm a retired road safety officer with local authority experience).but I urge you to be aware of this. That must be a very well guarded secret then. I had a brief look for any mention of this on the Web and could find not a single reference to it. Please could you post up a link to the relevant legislation on this. Cheers Johnny 😊 |
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When I worked in car rental one of our desk girls was killed in a Granada ( shows how long ago it was) by just this sort of accident, she was horrifically impaled on a fence, and died instantly. There was obviously a big enquiry regarding the accident and circumstances, but no mention was made of the fence at all Was this then a bad mistake by the authorities of the time, or is this a more recent legislation? As I said, the accident occurred in the early ‘90’s, when a Mk3 Granada was a new car Not trying to get at anyone, I too am genuinely interested? EDIT- heavyspanners, i don't suppose you needed planning permission for the fence, or did the council ( borough or parish) have anything to say about it? |
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