lrman
Part of things
Posts: 41 
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Apr 14, 2020 11:20:35 GMT
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Seem to remember another bike engined build on here that had all sorts of kill switch issues. Doable in the end, but all sorts of interlocks had to be bypassed. Uselessly, I can't remember which build. Sorry.  I think it was Johnnybravo’s build for that Italian thing he was putting a bike engine in. Edit to add link forum.retro-rides.org/thread/200406/wheels-on-wagon-back-work |
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Last Edit: Apr 14, 2020 11:23:57 GMT by lrman
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Apr 14, 2020 12:18:48 GMT
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I'm not sure, I think it the latter. It also has a micro switch on the clutch that I think stops you starting it unless the clutch is in, this could be used fro something else also. I need to get some fluids in and exhaust on so I can start it at some point. Clutch switch is pretty standard nowadays on bikes, stops you accidentally lurching it off the stand if you brush the starter switch. Not being a biker I didn't know that, that would be a bit of a comedy moment for everyone except you if that happened.  |
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TessierAshpool
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 520
Club RR Member Number: 168
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Apr 14, 2020 13:17:19 GMT
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bigearmuffs it's a horrible feeling when a bike falls of the stand, done it a couple of times - not due to the starter, but parking on an odd camber or mud, or the tarmac melts on a hot day. And it always dents tanks, scuffs engine cases and cracks fairings.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Apr 14, 2020 13:55:56 GMT
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The system interlocks stuff. It’s to stop fall-down/fall-over muppetry.
Basically, if the bike is in neutral it will start and run as normal. Doesn’t matter whether the stand is up or down, or the clutch in or out.
If the bike is in gear, it will only start if the side stand is up, and the clutch is in.
So, if you’re in gear on the side stand, and you hit the starter, nothing will happen.
If you roll to a stop in gear, with the clutch in, and kick down the stand, the engine will stop.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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TessierAshpool
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 520
Club RR Member Number: 168
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Apr 14, 2020 15:28:35 GMT
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glenanderson yes, seems to be the way all (most?) manufacturers have gone now, and I imagine the Blackbird will be the same. Older bikes I've had seem to be a bit of a mixture, some with no safeties, some with just side stand etc. All the first bikes I rode had nothing, so holding in the clutch on start became habit, and when I learnt to drive I carried it over to cars even when I do the gear lever wiggle 
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Apr 24, 2020 18:33:19 GMT
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engine looks at home in there!
re: solid mounting of the engine. bikes are not my forte in the slightest, but maybe the engine is a stressed member? i.e integral part of the structure of the bike itself, rather than a structure with an engine bolted in it.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Apr 24, 2020 19:36:10 GMT
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re: solid mounting of the engine. bikes are not my forte in the slightest, but maybe the engine is a stressed member? i.e integral part of the structure of the bike itself, rather than a structure with an engine bolted in it. Very often that is the case. The engine itself provides the rigidity and strength of the whole machine, with the “frame” simply a spine that ties all the components together. |
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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re: solid mounting of the engine. bikes are not my forte in the slightest, but maybe the engine is a stressed member? i.e integral part of the structure of the bike itself, rather than a structure with an engine bolted in it. Very often that is the case. The engine itself provides the rigidity and strength of the whole machine, with the “frame” simply a spine that ties all the components together. I read up on the blackbird quite a bit to work out why it didn't have engine mounts as some bikes do - "Twin balance shafts mean it’s so smooth it can be rigid mounted making the Honda Blackbird lighter and stiffer overall." MCN Review of engine So yes it is part of the frame and structure itself. |
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Finished the exhaust, it ended up being easier to cut the back bumper off for now as the back boxes took some positioning, Honda engineers had great foresight for this build as the standard exhaust goes nicely around the diff, I allowed a joint to allow for separation if required. Put the prop back on had to modify the chassis a bit for clearance. Re did my gear selector as it had to much play, the change in force from forwards to up, and back to down puts quite a bit of strain on the pivot, so it has to be solid. Positioned the steering wheel. Chopped all the floor out to start again, I need to build a floor, bulkhead and dash, I will use 1mm aluminium sheet as a template that I can fibre glass to.  All the weight is now pushing the suspension down, I will adjust the coil overs when finished to suit the total weight.    Need to have a think about fuel tank location, it's either between the exhausts as the back or under the drivers seat, and the latter is probably best to counter the engine weight. |
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Not sure why the exhausts don't look like they stick out enough, it must be the angle, they stick out about 1 inch from the bumper
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glenanderson yes, seems to be the way all (most?) manufacturers have gone now, and I imagine the Blackbird will be the same. Older bikes I've had seem to be a bit of a mixture, some with no safeties, some with just side stand etc. All the first bikes I rode had nothing, so holding in the clutch on start became habit, and when I learnt to drive I carried it over to cars even when I do the gear lever wiggle Funny you should mention this, I was always taught to depress the clutch, find neutral , this was in the days when brakes were not quite as efficient as they are today and you would always leave a parked car in gear. The clutch being depressed would reduce the drag from the gear box thus reducing the load on the starter, so in theory more power would be available to the ignition system. My nephew who is now learning to drive has never been told by the driving school to find neutral , just press the clutch or the engine won't start, go figure?? |
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I digress, I'm following this build, I have a Fox ready to strip down if only I could get to my storage, I intend to keep it fairly standard but with better brakes, heart transplants may be considered dependent on what I find on stripdown.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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My old BSA M33 didn’t have “primary” kickstarting. If you pulled the clutch in you just span the outer clutch basket. If it was in gear you’d go forwards a bit. You had to be in neutral, with the clutch out to start. Most British stuff from the pre-unit construction era was the same. It was quite handy for freeing up stuck clutch plates mind. 😉
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Need to rivet the sheet to the floor (waiting for longer rivets) and cut the floor sides back about 4" so I can fibreglass close to the rivets and then its flatter. It's a start -  Sticky outy bits -  |
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I digress, I'm following this build, I have a Fox ready to strip down if only I could get to my storage, I intend to keep it fairly standard but with better brakes, heart transplants may be considered dependent on what I find on stripdown. I was planning on keeping the original brakes, having reflected on the capability of the engine I have now changed my mind on this What are your plans for the brakes as I am now investigating options, on ebay they do a disk conversion for the rear of robins but nothing for the front of Kittens, I am guessing we will have a similar set up. Any pics on project. |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,353
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Aren’t the fronts based on Triumph Herald parts? Can you use Vitesse bits?
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Aren’t the fronts based on Triumph Herald parts? Can you use Vitesse bits? I really have no idea which parts bin has contributed to it's dna. I might have a go at retro fitting something modern. I have calipers and disks on my MGB and they are pretty woe full even though all the parts are new. |
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I think they are Vitesse/Spitfire parts so plenty of upgrade options available. Issue will be clearance for brakes with wheel size. What wheels will yours be running? 🙂
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Blackbird will have clutch and side stand switches but as others have said you can easily sort them out with a bit of wiring mingebaggery.
By the way good choice of engine I know of one that did 125000 miles with simple maintenance, oil changes are key.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Blackbird will have clutch and side stand switches but as others have said you can easily sort them out with a bit of wiring mingebaggery. By the way good choice of engine I know of one that did 125000 miles with simple maintenance, oil changes are key. Thanks, I thought of motorbike engines as short lived but I joined the Bird Forum and I learnt the Blackbird is quite a unit, as you say some reliable high milers, with mine at 37k it should have some good life in it for the Kitten. It's got new oil and filter at the moment and I will keep on top of that. |
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