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Mar 24, 2020 20:50:46 GMT
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 My parts turned up from the Jowett Car Club's excellent spares scheme 'Jowett Car Parts' - I even got a gold box   New stub axle bushes fitted  Swivel pin refitted along with a new thrust washer  Fitted first and checked - then just needed to add a few shims to remove the top to bottom play  Much - much better  Front hubs can now be reassembled with the new (relined) brake shoes & adjusted up  And the suspension treated to a coat of Dinitrol 4941 (I had left this side unpainted as I knew it had to come apart for the stub axle bushes)  All the brake drums were given a brush off and a coat of matt black to tidy them up  So now the brakes could be bled - I use silicone brake fluid - regardless of what you read elsewhere if you have removed the DOT 4 correctly & fully from the system prior to refilling with DOT 5 then there are no issues - never had a problem with it (Don't get me started on the hydroscopic DOT 4 stuff - it should be banned)  I could not get my self bleeder to seal correctly with the reservoir and in the end called upon the services of my glamorous assistant SWMBO - she commented whilst going through the process that it reminded her of the times when her father enlisted her help for brake bleeding duties - he always undertook his own car repairs on what today would be considered very collectable  Dot 5 tag fitted to the reservoir  And for the first time in several months 'Back on its Wheels' Grille ? - Nah - it can wait until tomorrow when you all tune back in to RR |
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Last Edit: Mar 24, 2020 20:54:03 GMT by Deleted
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Oh I see. You have some deal going with HoTWire to get page views up, huh?  The only DOT4 I've come across that doesn't turn to water* within 4 months is the genuine Nissan stuff. |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 4:48:56 GMT by varelse
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Thumbs up from my office at home.....
Keeping us sane Chris.
Thanks.
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Oh I see. You have some deal going with HoTWire to get page views up, huh? The only DOT4 I've come across that doesn't turn to water* within 4 months is the genuine Nissan stuff. Yep nothing like the suspense of stringing out a build thread (within reason) - they love it on here  Fully with you on the DOT 4 - it truly is the devil at work and when you have 6 brake cylinders plus a master cylinder to maintain which are all rare & expensive to replace you need all the help you can get from the silicone alternative |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 8:49:42 GMT by Deleted
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hohocc
Part of things
Posts: 36 
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GN you mention using dot 5 is fine after correctly and fully removing the old dot 4. How do you go about doing this? I had always understood all seals needed to be changed too but that's merely what I've "heard", and not from experience.
Thanks, and nice work too.
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,921
Club RR Member Number: 40
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Automec are one of a few companies that I need to add to the good companies list. Helpful, good service and reasonable prices.
James
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GN you mention using dot 5 is fine after correctly and fully removing the old dot 4. How do you go about doing this? I had always understood all seals needed to be changed too but that's merely what I've "heard", and not from experience. Thanks, and nice work too. Many thanks for the comments I use the air feed self bleeder to go around the system via the bleed nipples to drain the system first - you can then go a step further by working back from the furthest point and disconnect the brake lines whilst the system is under pressure to ensure that any remaining DOT 4 is removed - I have heard of others flushing the system through with a solvent degreaser before today but I have never gone to that extent - never gone round replacing the seals either - However I always ensure that I thoroughly purge the brake system through so rather than use the half litre that the system would take I used a full litre to ensure that I had the system flushed through - I have never had an issue using this method - never had a cylinder seize with DOT 5 either and I must have used this method on well over 20 vehicles by now - Important info do not confuse DOT 5 with DOT 5.1 they are entirely different products and are not compatible with each other |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 9:03:19 GMT by Deleted
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Oh I see. You have some deal going with HoTWire to get page views up, huh? The only DOT4 I've come across that doesn't turn to water* within 4 months is the genuine Nissan stuff. As part of my job I run a large fleet of new cars and vans to high mileage ie up to 250,000 miles in 3 years, all as per the OEM instructions on DOT4 (and lets face it with all the Billions they invest in vehicle development there must be good reasons to specify dot 4, In fact if you put dot 5 in you invalidate the warranty) in 10 years I have never seen brake fluid needing changing when it's measured for moisture content at service. It may well be that infrequent use makes thing worse, the obvious answer is drive the car more! I've always used dot 4 and changed it every 2 years, it only takes 1/2 an hour at least the bleed nipples don't get a chance to rust up. If you are getting water in the fluid after a year I would check the venting. There is also another reason to change it regularly on moderns whatever the fluid, many share a reservoir for the clutch and brake fluid, the CSC's almost universally used nowadays allow a small amount of clutch dust to get past the seals and over time the fluid gets filthy, although there is a weir in the reservoir the brake and clutch fluid do mix on cornering etc. |
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Thumbs up from my office at home..... Keeping us sane Chris. Thanks. Rian - Hope that you are ok - I have something to send to you once I dare head off to the post office |
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Oh I see. You have some deal going with HoTWire to get page views up, huh? The only DOT4 I've come across that doesn't turn to water* within 4 months is the genuine Nissan stuff. As part of my job I run a large fleet of new cars and vans to high mileage ie up to 250,000 miles in 3 years, all as per the OEM instructions on DOT4 (and lets face it with all the Billions they invest in vehicle development there must be good reasons to specify dot 4, In fact if you put dot 5 in you invalidate the warranty) in 10 years I have never seen brake fluid needing changing when it's measured for moisture content at service. It may well be that infrequent use makes thing worse, the obvious answer is drive the car more! I've always used dot 4 and changed it every 2 years, it only takes 1/2 an hour at least the bleed nipples don't get a chance to rust up. If you are getting water in the fluid after a year I would check the venting. There is also another reason to change it regularly on moderns whatever the fluid, many share a reservoir for the clutch and brake fluid, the CSC's almost universally used nowadays allow a small amount of clutch dust to get past the seals and over time the fluid gets filthy, although there is a weir in the reservoir the brake and clutch fluid do mix on cornering etc. Kevin - Regardless of what moderns use I would argue the case for DOT 5 in classics - they simply do not get used as much - cars get stored for long periods for various reasons and the engine cooling systems on older vehicles are nowhere near has efficient the ones in modern vehicle design - add to this the fact that older vehicles used metal brake reservoirs quite often in not the best locations with not the best design in the world for preventing water ingress (the one in the Javelin is fastened within the inner wing / wheel arch of the car - unprotected from water spray off the road wheel) - Hence in the Javelin's case the reservoir suffers not only from water ingress but also from the condensation factor - I don't think that you can compare what is used in modern vehicles vs the design & usage problems of older vehicles as a case for using DOT 4 and not expecting problems when doing so in a 50 + year old vehicle - DOT 4 in moderns I have no issue with and have mine serviced as per factory maintenance schedules |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 9:21:54 GMT by Deleted
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I did the same as you Chris when I replaced the DOT4 with DOT5 in my Mini. No seals replaced and not had a problem with it. One lot did lose it's colour which was slightly worrying when I looked at the reservoir and thought it was empty.
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Mar 25, 2020 11:14:58 GMT
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Kevin, might not be as much of an issue over there, but here even moderns on DOT4 reliably don't pass the moisture test.
Maybe the extra heat and humidity?
Anyway, get on with the updates!
Also, what's that brake lining material made of? It looks like Hessian weave...
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 11:18:56 GMT by varelse
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Duggy
Part of things
Posts: 129
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Mar 25, 2020 12:18:59 GMT
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What a lovely old motor.
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jpsmit
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,274
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Mar 25, 2020 12:35:54 GMT
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I love this car! I likewise use DOT5 on all my classics. A few years ago I had an issue with my Midget where the fluid was getting past the seals due to slipperyness. I very light honing helped but, I ended up going to the store and shaking each bottle (Yes I know shaking is wrong) and buying the most viscous product which in Canada (at NAPA) is Prestone.
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Mar 25, 2020 17:48:24 GMT
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Interesting to hear what goes on around the world as you say it must be the warm humid air being drawn in. Part of the spec for dot5 is that it's compatible with other fluids so there should be no problem with swapping over. I did think about using it for the minor but in the end went with what I knew.
This is going to be a lovely car when it's done the owner should be over the moon, Given all the extra work I hope you have managed to make a living on it!
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Mar 25, 2020 18:16:09 GMT
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Sorry Chris, not explaining myself very well. It was the 2 pack reference that prompted that. Not having an air fed mask would put me off spraying that. Obviously not an issue for the pro like yourself. I have a few and growing number of suspension items stripped and in zinc primer and wondering what top coat options I have. Thanks Sean Sean - Not a problem - You could use a 2 pack and brush it or even roller it on (mini gloss roller) Frost Restoration products do a 'Chassis Black' which is very good www.frost.co.uk/eastwood-extreme-chassis-black-satin-946ml/They do this in satin or gloss - by the tin or in a aerosol - none of which are cheap - buts its a do it once do it right solution for the home restorer that wants the right results - the satin in particular looks like a factory finish when done correctly From both personal & professional experience I would avoid Hammerite or POR 15 in any format Thanks Chris, exactly the steer I need Sean |
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Mar 25, 2020 18:58:28 GMT
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Interesting to hear what goes on around the world as you say it must be the warm humid air being drawn in. Part of the spec for dot5 is that it's compatible with other fluids so there should be no problem with swapping over. I did think about using it for the minor but in the end went with what I knew. This is going to be a lovely car when it's done the owner should be over the moon, Given all the extra work I hope you have managed to make a living on it! Like Chris, i have used the silikon braake fluid on all my cars for many years now and never faced a problem with it. It does not mix with the DOT4 conventional brake fluid. I once brought my MGB v8 to the MOT and had not put the warning shield on the brake fluid reservoir like Chris did. They filled it up a bit and therefore i know that these fluids do not mix as the conventional brake fluid was on top of the silikon one as a kind of layer. Now all the cars have the warning shield
I always exchanged all rubber parts when i swapped over to silikon but overhauled the entire brake system at the same time when changing to silikon
The Javelin is looking very good Chris! Thanks again for taking the time to post it all.
Peter
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Mar 25, 2020 19:03:39 GMT
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 With the car back on its wheels and off the stands I could apply the Dinitrol to the underside faces of the chassis legs at the front these take the brunt of road chippings / spray along with the fact that they are hollow box section that take quite a lot of heat due to the close proximity of the exhaust manifolds so they are forever going through the hot / cold cycle which can lead to condensation  Hence I always ensure that they are treated  Grille then - this is the lower one - just a matter of assembling it in the correct order to the backing plates  A retaining screw in each corner fastens it to the car on a clip basis - one quarter turn releases them  Then the upper grille assembly  And fitting  Lifts up to allow easy engine access  Or can be removed completely within seconds  Likewise with the lower grille to provide very easy access to the engine bay |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 19:04:12 GMT by Deleted
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Mar 25, 2020 19:14:42 GMT
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Kevin, might not be as much of an issue over there, but here even moderns on DOT4 reliably don't pass the moisture test. Maybe the extra heat and humidity? Anyway, get on with the updates! Also, what's that brake lining material made of? It looks like Hessian weave... No idea what brake lining material is but I can confirm it does work I have it fitted to my own Javelin - it states on the packing that its 'None Fade' |
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Last Edit: Mar 25, 2020 19:15:15 GMT by Deleted
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,975
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Mar 25, 2020 19:17:01 GMT
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Oh I see. You have some deal going with HoTWire to get page views up, huh? The only DOT4 I've come across that doesn't turn to water* within 4 months is the genuine Nissan stuff. As part of my job I run a large fleet of new cars and vans to high mileage ie up to 250,000 miles in 3 years, all as per the OEM instructions on DOT4 (and lets face it with all the Billions they invest in vehicle development there must be good reasons to specify dot 4, In fact if you put dot 5 in you invalidate the warranty) in 10 years I have never seen brake fluid needing changing when it's measured for moisture content at service. It may well be that infrequent use makes thing worse, the obvious answer is drive the car more! I've always used dot 4 and changed it every 2 years, it only takes 1/2 an hour at least the bleed nipples don't get a chance to rust up. If you are getting water in the fluid after a year I would check the venting. There is also another reason to change it regularly on moderns whatever the fluid, many share a reservoir for the clutch and brake fluid, the CSC's almost universally used nowadays allow a small amount of clutch dust to get past the seals and over time the fluid gets filthy, although there is a weir in the reservoir the brake and clutch fluid do mix on cornering etc. Reminded me of a previous career in the police service - the base station I worked from had both local patrol and traffic - the traffic boys got a new "toy" that measured the water content of brake fluid as part of post accident investigation (they'd had a few accidents where people had claimed to lose the brakes but post accident the pedal had seemed firm with no fluid loss and whilst they suspected boiled fluid due to high water content they had no quick and easy method of checking) Anyway new toy and keen to get some representative data - they'd checked all the police cars and everything passed the test - they wanted to see what results they got from a selection of other cars so notified all the staff (Civy and Police) that they would do a free check on the Saturday morning using their new toy. They got a good turn out and probably tested maybe 20 plus cars All the cars failed except two - one was a 14 mth old car and mine that was 17 years old and whilst they weren't surprised at the 14 mth old car my result wasn't expected and I had to explain why my bag of curse word MG Midget had an almost perfect result Explaination I'd spent several years on motorcycles before I started driving cars and with small volume of fluid in the lines and heavy braking/heat build up I'd boiled the brakes once and even pulling the lever back to the bar the retardation was negligable and I had was is politely called a "moment" - once I found out that brake fluid was hydroscopic I realised my loss of brakes was actually down to poor maintenance rather than driving like a loon so brake fluid has always been a annual change on motorcycles and bi-annual on cars. |
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