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This topic then about my Alfa project. This was the first project car I ever did (God, the painful lessons learned) and it is hovering around the 90% done status for some time.
It was bought for cheap from a guy that was considered a parting out fest. A very unloved and neglected car over all these years. Was build 28th October 1996 as one of the last 164's made. It's a base model TwinSpark, but by then the Italians put a lot of stuff in the base models. The base was a Super with bronze trim and a green velours sport upholstery. It wasn't until spring 1997 that the dealer that ordered the car was able to sell it. It became a leased company car. After the lease term ended, it was just one owner after the other and extended stays at car dealerships. Some of the contents found under the rear seats gave away some hints of the "not so posh" neighborhoods it must have been. No drugs or weapons but still... One of the owners replaced the hubcaps and steel wheels for an alloy. Sounds OK but these were the type of budget wheels found at a Halfords.
By the time I bought it, it was dented and scratched everywhere. It was green due to plant growth. And many electronics did not work; including the speedo. But hey; I liked Alfa Romeo's (had a 156 daily at the time), and I liked the maffia styling. And I think it is cool to have a car that does not fit in. More Lancia people then Alfa people like it; even today.
A lot of cleaning gave this result. Doesn't look so bad from this distance.
A previous owner picture
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Most of the electronics were an easy fix. Some blown fuses here and there, connectors that didn't connect and the speedo turned out to be the sensor in the gearbox that wiggled itself to freedom. The damages I fixed myself also. With varying result but at least it was less obvious. The first attempt at painting wasn't great but reasonable. In that shape I drove it to Austria and Italy. The exhaust silencer fell off so we reattached it with shoe strings. The V-belt escaped to freedom which I put back at the side of the road; did't dare to use the A/C anymore. Apart from that it was fine!
Really great travel car. It has the sounds and sporty feel of any Alfa but with the luxury and comfort of an executive saloon. Since the TwinSpark is pretty light-weight compared to the V6 it is the nicer handling car and still gives great performance. But on this trip we did notice the suspension was feeling a little old despite the low mileage of around 180.000km.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Next road trip was to Belgium (Spa). In short; I went there with a 5-speed gearbox. I returned with only 4 + a whine of a worn bearing. A slight issue was that it was short before winter and I needed it up and running before the 1st of January. Typically our winters are not so cold, and we only have light snow for just a few days. Typically... Not the winter that I was outside exchanging the gearbox.
Seems OK here.
Other side looks cold
Next day...
Stupidly enough I never realized that when the speedo sensor was out of the gearbox, the oil could have come out. So the gearbox ran dry and died.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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After the gearbox repair, we drove it around a little and did a few stabs at painting it better. At some point, I learned how to do so with a paint gun and home compressor. I removed the rear bumper and made it look nice. By removing the rear bumper is noticed some very minor rust on the floor pan. As it turned out, even a galvanized car at some point of neglect will start rusting. Hunting for the rust also meant dismantling some suspension components. I did remember it wasn't all feeling perfect, so I bought some replacement parts.
Things escalated a little. For 6 to 7 years, the 164 was off the road, and a full restoration was done. And apart from the parts I could take off the car and into the shed, all of it was done outside. Painting things by myself went very well on some panels and some I just could not get to a nice finish. In the last year, I gave up and sent it to a Bodyshop where they worked on it when there was nothing else to do. They sanded all of the (visible) body down to the galvanized or the blank metal and repainted it. It took them a full year, but they enjoyed it and delivered a fantastic job.
Yes that does look hopeless
Fighting off rust
Time to refurbish
I build a little electrolysis bath for the parts to get rid of rust and dirt
As a new one again. The picture does not capture the painfull search for parts around Europe and the USA.
Wiring harness cleanup. I love it that the 164 displays all the weird behavior of Italian electronics although everything that has to do with electrons on the car is either Bosch or Siemens. It must have been a requirement from Alfa to their suppliers.
These little intermediate results are desperatly needed to stay motivated
Interior clean-up
So many wires... Maybe a 164 was a little bit of a complex car as a first project
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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So much sandpaper. And poor intern that got to do the sanding at the Bodyshop.
All the little trim and other body parts meanwhile needed to be replaced or freshened up. A lot of trim I had to look nice, although it needed to be replaced. But sourcing the parts can be a nightmare.
Results! Painted in the original very dark blue that was on there from the factory. To me the best colour for a 164 Super and key to have that little maffia style.
Assembly! In winter again but this time I was prepared.
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Last Edit: Aug 7, 2019 12:52:37 GMT by engineer
V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,623
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It's a thumbs up from Fogey  |
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Last Edit: Aug 7, 2019 13:00:19 GMT by fogey
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Back in one piece! I have also replaced the Halfords wheels with a really nice wheel design from Alfa Romeo themselves. I stripped all the paint of it; painted all the recessed parts black and I sanded the front face in a circular pattern before finishing it with clear coat. So it looks like Diamant cut.
The list of things to do is still huge. Many smaller trim inside and out are still not perfect. Radio is not working, nor is the A/C. Exhaust has just been replaced entirely to one that does not rattle but has a nice "little-louder-than-stock" sound. But most of all I need to drive it. Each MOT so far the brakes were a little stuck from not driving it enough. I have entered a few classic car rallies already both day and night versions. Even won one that was full of Jaguar, MG and Mercedes classics with all the trip master and rally light equipment you can imagine; versus the stock 164 with just a GPS.
If all goes to plan (and Brexit does not give too much of an issue), I will visit some events in the UK next year with the 164.
This thread will further cover the attempts to get from the 90% to 100% state.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Think I may just bookmark this. |
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While the last things need to get done, I have been using it on a few classic car rallies. More and more of them have a young timer class.
This seems serious enough
Before nightfall (we had to drive till sunrise) plotting the route
Another one at the start of the season
The color is amazing. Sometimes blue, plain black and sometimes grey.
Didn't get much to do about the trim still. I kept having some technical difficulties. Rear-wheel bearings failed. A year later (one tank of fuel only) again a rear wheel bearing was shot. Must have been wrong out of the box. Had some issues with wheel bolt thread damaged; causing me to replace the spindle and bearing on the front. Some fuel leaks, most around the replaced fuel pump. That's a bit of a story. Before the car went for paint, I ran the engine to check no wires were forgotten. Ran well. 1.5 year later, the engine did not want to start. Fuel pump turned out to be stuck. After a few repair attempts, I gave up and bought a new one. It turned out that it is a particular Bosch design used only on 164 and a few Ferrari's. Naturally only for sale for Ferrari prices. After that, it still needed injector cleaning to get running again.
Also, the windshield wipers (I have a thing for bad luck with wipers and leaky exhausts) caused many issues until I replaced the whole system. And still, the adjustment is not perfect. As with any 164 Super, the driver's side wiper slightly makes contact with the bonnet. Adjusting the hood further forwards gives ugly panel gap. Wiper adjustment en rebuild is all done. I guess it was pretty much like that already at new. Only the Super models have this specific wiper system.
Other than that I really don't drive it enough. Brakes get stuck frequently and after winter storage it always takes some weeks before the electronics work fine again. But the winter storage is key to keep it nice and preserved. For winter I use my daily driver which I maybe should use less in summer. With this one I care a little less about where I park it. It's well protected and has some scratches and a few small dents as long as I owned it.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Awesome story mate. What a lovely part of Holland you showed us!!
Was that the GrossGlockner you visited before the restoration of the Alfa?
Thanks and good luck
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,617
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Glad to see the less popular Alfa & model spec. saved. The green velour interior nicely quirky & memorable in an era of black & grey.
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Well done on saving your 164. The pictures bought back many memories of my 164/Sprint 6C saga. I dismantled a rusty V6 164 and re used the running gear. I tried to re-use the instrument panel but the complex electrics beat me!
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Aug 10, 2019 15:46:11 GMT
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Thanks!
It was indeed the Grossglockner. And there are really nice places in the Netherlands when you ignore the highways.
Green velour is the rarer choice. Blue was more common. Still, either is beyond what you can get now. In the 164 I think the velour looks better than leather.
Electrics of the 164 are pretty much the most complex of any car I worked on. Just after 164 all the CAN bus things arrived that made the wiring much more simple. Most diagrams are available however in good Italian style the diagram does not always match what is actually in the car. Still; finding a place to put the V6 in a Sprint.. that is an achievement! I have seen it done to an old Giulia but a Sprint has even less space.
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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Aug 10, 2019 17:25:25 GMT
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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pabblo
Part of things
Posts: 435
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Aug 12, 2019 11:33:26 GMT
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What an amazing transformation, would of been a shame if it had been dismantled. So nice one for saving it, from certain doom in a scrap yard!! And to do all that work to breath new life back into it, I'm looking forward to seeing more on this an the Suzuki & Corvette |
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Last Edit: Aug 12, 2019 11:34:51 GMT by pabblo
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haydnw
Part of things
Posts: 141 
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It's good to see another Alfa on here, particularly a 164  Well done on saving your 164. The pictures bought back many memories of my 164/Sprint 6C saga. I dismantled a rusty V6 164 and re used the running gear. I tried to re-use the instrument panel but the complex electrics beat me! I followed your build thread on alfaowner.com years ago. Small world! Is the car still around somewhere, I haven't seen it or heard about it for some time? |
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1992 Maserati 222 4v (needs work)
1993 Alfa Romeo 75 3.0 Cloverleaf (needs lots of work)
1996 Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 V6 24v Cloverleaf (testing my patience)
1990 Lancia Thema 8.32 (needs a bit of fettling)
(Ex) 1999 Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24v
(Ex) 1998 Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 24v
(Ex) 1999 Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24v
(Ex) 1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Q4 3.5 'Savali'
(Ex) 1991 Alfa Romeo 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
(Ex) 1995 Alfa 145 1.6 Boxer Zender
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Aug 13, 2019 10:28:20 GMT
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Very nice! I have a liking for these. I love a road version that looks like....  download by quickrack, on Flickr |
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Aug 13, 2019 12:47:42 GMT
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It's good to see another Alfa on here, particularly a 164 Well done on saving your 164. The pictures bought back many memories of my 164/Sprint 6C saga. I dismantled a rusty V6 164 and re used the running gear. I tried to re-use the instrument panel but the complex electrics beat me! I followed your build thread on alfaowner.com years ago. Small world! Is the car still around somewhere, I haven't seen it or heard about it for some time? It went back and forth via E Bay and has finally ended up at Luden Automotive where they plan to refurbish it ...sometime. They posted a short "You tube" video of the engine being started some time ago. Sorry for thread diversion.... |
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Aug 20, 2019 17:56:23 GMT
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Hello, engine 2.0 TS?
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Yes it is a 2.0 TS. The TwinSpark was a 2.0 always untill they downsized it for the 155. It is in many ways similar to the Nord engines that have been around since the late 50s |
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V-8: 1988 Corvette - 5.7 TPI
V-4: 1973 SAAB 96 - 1.5
4-boxer: 1975 Alfa Romeo AlfaSud - 1.2
2-boxer: 1965 Panhard 24BT - 0.8
4-line: 1982 Suzuki SC100 Whizzkid - 1.0
4-line: 1997 Alfa Romeo 164 Super - 2.0 TS
4-line: 2010 Renault Wind - 1.2 Turbo
4-line: 2021 Citroen campervan - 2.2 HDI
4-line: 2022 Alpine A110 - 1.8 Turbo
2-line: 1973 NSU Prinz 4L - 0.6 --> for sale
2-line: 2021 Honda Rebel 500
EV: 2024 Nio ET5T
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