ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 28, 2018 11:15:11 GMT
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As a few of you know the MOT changes have now happened. The two main points raised were the MOT exemption and the new Dangerous category.
The Dangerous category is an interesting one. Why? If you are caught on the road with a 'Dangerous' market against the fail sheet you can be fined £2.5k and get 3 points. It's one reason why people were saying "you'll have to leave the car at the garage for them to repair, or get it trailered away", because of course, the law will now be broken if you decide to drive your car with the Dangerous marker.
I decided to do some research into the Dangerous marker. It seems now a few things are automatically dangerous. Some are very obvious, others are not. In summary, here are the highlights I saw:
-Tyres below 1.6mm. If they are close to this I wouldn't risk the MOT.
-Tyres having the wrong load rating for the car.
-Suspension looking as it it can cause instability issues
-Rot looking like it can cause instability issues
-Gearbox looking like it might fail
-Brake servo not working
-Brake Load sensing valve not working or missing
-Parking brake working at less than 50% of the required value.
-Brake lights either not working or permanently stuck on. This includes the trailer socket where fitted
-For the diesel boys ; smoke looking as if it can obsure other road users.
Of course, the above will be done by the opinion of the tester. What looks fine to one tester may look dangerous to another.
Another point? The emmissions for pre-75 vehicles looks vague. On one hard VOSA are saying they are exempt. On another if you by their flowchart it suggests the the limits are now:
CO = <4.5%
ppm = <1200
I do have a Google doc. with all of the failure points which I am happy to share to see what individual points are down as dangerous items. I'm happy to add them here but it will be one very long post.
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2018 12:15:52 GMT by ChasR
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,946 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Aug 28, 2018 12:49:21 GMT
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Thanks ChasR  As for the flow chart, I don't remember the cutoff dates on the old system, but the 4.5% CO and 1200ppm HC seems familiar. And if it can't pass that at idle, theres something very wrong with the vehicle setup  As for the diesel test, that is just a complete fox face picture now! Had a 2007 Vauxhall Combo van in and that has a sticker stating 0.3 for the smoke test. It wasn't even below 0.8 to start with, and after a damn good service and an Italian tune up it only just got through the test on the fifth consecutive try  |
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Aug 28, 2018 12:53:52 GMT
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Interesting list, not that I'm affected but got to ask. What does a gearbox look like if it might fail? |
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2018 12:54:34 GMT by georgeb
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Aug 28, 2018 13:03:56 GMT
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive.
My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving!
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,233
Club RR Member Number: 160
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MOT Dangerous Items - Take Note!Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 28, 2018 13:23:42 GMT
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! The 'parking' brake is also considered a supplementary braking system should the nearly-impossible total failure of your service brakes occur. Hence hydraulic-only parking brake systems are a RFR. |
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Aug 28, 2018 14:22:10 GMT
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Or quite possible complete brake failure on single-circuit systems like the Morris Minor. A car you always check the handbrake on!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 28, 2018 16:00:46 GMT
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The Parking brake failure is one I thought was annoying. However, the more you think about it, the more it makes sense.
After all, the single circuit argument is a very good shout. Furthermore, on Citroens you could argue it is paramount to have a working handbrake. On cars with power brakes running on LHM the brakes do nothing if it runs out of reserve pressure. As in zero braking power at all. It makes a buggered up servo arrangement look amazing on a DOT x fluid car! The LHM powered brakes need the engine-driven LHM pump to put the fluid around in order for it to work. Just as it does for the suspension, steering and on the DSs with a semi-auto (well, automated manual) fitted, the gearbox.
I guess you could have different rules for different braking systems but it can soon get very confusing.
Now I've got used to falling on my own sword...
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2018 22:00:06 GMT by ChasR
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,838
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Aug 28, 2018 20:07:09 GMT
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I don't have a brake servo. Does that automatically make me dangerous?  |
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2018 20:07:46 GMT by luckyseven
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 855
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Aug 28, 2018 20:53:51 GMT
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! The 'parking' brake is also considered a supplementary braking system should the nearly-impossible total failure of your service brakes occur. Hence hydraulic-only parking brake systems are a RFR. One size does not fit all with this one. If you try to use a handbrake on a Land Rover or Range Rover which has a transmission parking brake as an emergency brake, you are liable to either destroy the transmission or completely loose control of the car when all four wheels briefly lock before something breaks and lets them suddenly turn again. |
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71
2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet
1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon
1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump)
1992 Toyota HiLux Surf
1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty)
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty)
2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager
2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 28, 2018 21:23:51 GMT
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I took a car for a VIC check that I'd recently bought, and the inspector put a prohibition notice on it for a non-functioning emergency brake. The handbrake did work, not well enough to do handbrake turns in the road at speed, but was fine as a parking brake even on a slope.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 28, 2018 21:58:59 GMT
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I don't have a brake servo. Does that automatically make me dangerous? I am guessing here, but I reckon it will be a case of where a brake servo is fitted but not working well. Likewise, my 2CV doesn't run a brake servo. |
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Aug 28, 2018 22:12:00 GMT
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! Every time I MOT'd my old 2CV the parking brake came back at around 1-5%. Last time it was MOT'd I just stopped using it in an attempt to maintain it (as I never got anything replaced on it, my mechanic had some trick I can't quite remember). In gear and against a curb is good enough for me! |
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fulvia1436
Club Retro Rides Member
Finally started a thread for my Fulvia life
Posts: 341
Club RR Member Number: 63
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! Is the hill start no longer part of today's "Driving Test"? |
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'59 Austin A40, '59 VW Beetle, '63 Mk1 Cortina, '57 Austin Gypsy, '68 Fiat 850 Coupe, '68 Alfa Duetto Spider, '72 Lancia Fulvia 1.3S, '73 Lancia 2000 Sedan ie., '72 Lancia 2000 Sedan, '67 Lancia Fulvia 1.3, '83 VW Passat GL5 Estate, '81 Volvo 245 Estate, '85 Lancia Thema 8V Turbo Estate, '99 Lancia Kappa 20V Turbo Estate, '00 VW Sharan VR6, '06 Fiat Multipla 1.9 JTD, '10 Fiat Multipla 1.9 JTD, '66 Lancia Fulvia 1.3
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! Is the hill start no longer part of today's "Driving Test"? Better to dig twin trenches / lay rubber than roll back and hit something. My daughter has yet to master the hill start in my manual Falcon but she almost never stalls it or lets it roll back. |
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Aug 29, 2018 10:24:09 GMT
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Is the hill start no longer part of today's "Driving Test"? If you live in Sheffield (or anywhere hilly), you get used to being able to do the flick (named by my mate, who moved out of Sheffield to Cambridge & then moved back and couldn't do it anymore) . You can do hill starts without a handbrake and without rolling back. |
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Last Edit: Aug 29, 2018 11:49:43 GMT by joem83
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colnerov
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,829
Member is Online
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Aug 29, 2018 11:48:11 GMT
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Not quite sure how a weak parking brake makes a car dangerous to drive. My understanding is that you're only supposed to use it when you're not driving! Is the hill start no longer part of today's "Driving Test"? Hi, The driving test is about demonstrating the ability to use the controls. The MOT is about the controls working properly. You can't do one without the other. Colin |
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Aug 29, 2018 12:45:57 GMT
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I thought the handbrakes only other use after parking was to impress girls outside McDonalds?! Hadn't thought far enough ahead for actual other uses.  |
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,946
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Aug 29, 2018 12:56:32 GMT
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I thought the handbrakes only other use after parking was to impress girls outside McDonalds?! Hadn't thought far enough ahead for actual other uses. Thats why it is a Dangerous failure! Nowt worse than trying to do a handbrake turn and only getting a bit of a scuff from a limp singular locking wheel  |
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Aug 29, 2018 14:47:25 GMT
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I was under the impression a handbrake on a Mk1 Escort was an auxiliary steering device, no?
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74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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Aug 29, 2018 20:30:08 GMT
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Is the hill start no longer part of today's "Driving Test"? If you live in Sheffield (or anywhere hilly), you get used to being able to do the flick (named by my mate, who moved out of Sheffield to Cambridge & then moved back and couldn't do it anymore) . You can do hill starts without a handbrake and without rolling back. If you don't mind killing the clutch. |
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