Milord
Part of things
Posts: 156
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So I have a bit of a technical problem with my Opel Kadett and was wondering what you all thought about it.
I bought the car about 10 years ago, after which I stored it in a garage. But even before that the last registration dates 1994. So it has been sitting quite some time.
I've taken it out of storage a few months ago and tried to work on it whenever I have the time.
I've cleaned the fuel tank, changed all fuel lines, and replaced the fuel pump. Further I gave it a good service where I changed all fluids, plugs, leads,...
After that I was able to start it and had it taxed and tested.
I took it out a couple of times for local errands in the past few months, it never ran 100% but it was OK.
2 weeks ago my E39 was in the shop and I needed transportation to work (+-50km single run) so I took the Kadett. I only got about halfway after which the car stalled and wouldn't start again. First my throttle response went, but the car still idled, then after a few seconds it died altogether. I hitchhiked to work and made arrangements to have it towed. When I came back tot he car 8h later to help tow it I was surprised to be able to start it. I drove it home without it missing a beat.
A friend of mine then tuned the engine for me, where he gapped the valved correctly, timed the ignition and fine tuned the carburettor. He did also tell me that he felt the engine was making some pressure on the coolant system and he suspected my head gasket to give in soon. He also noted that even though it was tuned correctly there was still a bit of a misfire. This was last week.
Past weekend I tried to drive it to a local show a good 10km away, But at the very last red light before the show the car stalled again. This time it would not start after a few hours of rest, so I had to tow it home.
Yesterday I tried to start it again, but it doesn't do anything. (except turn over) I tried to put some gasoline in the carb directly but even then I can't get it to run more then a few seconds. After my 5th or 6th try it wouldn't do anything anymore, not even with fresh gasoline in the carb.
Now my question it the following: could all this be because of the head gasket? I personally never head of a car not starting with a head gasket problem? Could there possibly be some other problem?
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Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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get a spark tester and use it next time it breaks down
when its running ok wiggle all the ign wires see if it cuts out
has the carb been taken apart and cleaned inside? hows the filter look now?
you can do a sniff test for headgasket , they don't usually cause the problem you describe , i would expect overheating and coolant/oil loss or mixing , having said that old basic car if its a keeper it wouldnt hurt to have the head off and lap the valves etc for peace of mind , don't expect it would be too complicated
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Milord
Part of things
Posts: 156
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I can't start it whatsoever, so testing something while it's running would be rather difficult. spark plugs are new, ignition wires are new, coil and rotor are new, contact points are new and tuned. So I wouldn't think the spark being the problem? Certainly not since it ran fine with all those components for some time? Carb has not been dismantled, just fine tuned. But if I inject some fuel directly into the carb it still won't run, so I don't think the carb is the problem either? I did notice that the coolant pipes became rock hard when the car was running. I also noticed some filth in the (new) coolant, so I would suspect the head gasket to be failing. It was running a bit hot as well, but nothing mayor, needle was at about 60% of the gauge. These things are old, so I didn't make too much of it... I don't mind having to change the head gasket, as this car is surely a keeper for me, I'm just concerned that changing the head gasket will not solve the problem...
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Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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needs checking ...assuming is no good
the car needs fuel and a spark to run , checking theres a healthy spark when cranking would eliminate the whole ign side of things
and a car thats been stood almost certainly needs the carb taking apart to check /clean
id check those regardless ..but yeah the hard hoses don't sound good, cant see it stopping the car from starting
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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fuel pump still pumping ? start with all the basic /easy to check stuff don't assume any new part is good , ive had lots of dudd stuff out of the box , stuff aint what it used to be did it stop dead like it was switched off or fade away?
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Problem with my Opel KadettChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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As said, assume nothing. I've had new rotor arms give me sporadic issues like yours. I did write a guide on how to check things. IMHO it should really be an FAQ for stuff like this. Here's a chart I found earlier: www.ifitjams.com/starting.htm
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Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018 8:02:32 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,269
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Problem with my Opel KadettChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Found it: I know you say you have checked things but if it were me I'd check them in this order. I'm sorry to try to teach you to such eggs but this method hasn't really failed me. Otherwise you can end up spending cash you reall don't need to spend and potentially causing problems later ;I've had issues sourcing good quality coils for example, and in my Stag caused a problem because of that. As we all know, you need three things to make an engine run; Compression, Spark, and Fuel. Having them right is key to making an engine run well. Now 1) Was it running lumpily previously? Does the engine sound like it has compression when being turned over? If not it could be flooded. In which case, start it as you would a flooded engine, preferably changing the spark plugs if you can or cleaning them. Otherwise, get a compression check done, unless of course something has broken (timing belt/chain for example, but the engine will sound 'strange' here if that has happened. So, that's the compression. Next? The Spark. 1) Check to see if you have 6-9V at the coil power terminals (if it's a ballasted system; your workshop manual will give the voltage here) or 12V for non-ballast system; you may need to close the points to get this reading. That will be with the ignition at No. II. When cranking the voltage will drop to whatever the battery drops to (10-12V). If it's stays at 6V or a ballast system or you have nothing at all that will be a wiring or ignition switch problem. Temporarily puttong 12V to the positive side of the coil will rule that out. 2)So, you have a working coil. Next, check the points? Does the gap look around right? If it's closing up or too open there is a good chance the car may not fire up. Adjust 3)See if you get a spark at the end of the King Lead, with a screwdriver/nail/plug in the end of the king lead? You don't It's like to either be the lead (a new lead can sort that) or the coil has packed up. 4) Grab a spark plug, pull a lead off another plug and see if it sparks as you turn it over. It doesn't? You have a spark problem. I'd also check one of the plugs in the engine to see if they haven't failed. If you have a spark at the lead the chances are either the firing order is completely wrong, the timing is miles off (unlikely to make it hard to start IME), or you have no fuel. Move on to fuel. 5) So you don't have a spark at the lead. I'd now check a few things. Check the dizzy cap. If the central carbon bush has gone from the middle of the cap the car will never fire up. You'll need a new dizzy cap. Also test the rotor arm. I've seen a few pattern ones fail and give a non-starting issue over the years, particularly ones from a company beginning with I. If it's not the cap check the leads. So, fuel. 1) Can you see fuel going into the carb. If not you either have a blockage like a collapsed fuel line or a blocked filter. Otherwise it could be a knackered fuel pump. If it's mechanical it could be also down to the plunger arm or cam wearing (this is very rare however). On an electric pump it could be down to the wiring. Check these first before condemning the pump. 2) So, you have fuel coming to the carb. Can you smell it? If so, it could simply want setting up or you could have excessive fuel pressure going to it. Going to base settings here will work as per the workshop manual. On mechanical pumped cars it pays to crank the engine over a good few times on the key prior to trying to fire up. This IME makes a mechanically pumped car easier to start. Of course this is a little easier for those owners on electric pumps. 3) If you don't have fuel the carb again may want setting up, or the float may be jammed. Sometimes knocking the float will allow it to start again as the float unsticks itself. If your case I'd be tempted to check that the dizzy is back to where it should be on static timing; is it clamped down well (i.e not moving). I wouldn't rule out massive vacuum leak either. The car IME will generally run with a vacuum leak but badly.
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Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018 7:56:29 GMT by ChasR
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Milord
Part of things
Posts: 156
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Thanks for the replies! Fuel pump is new, but I'll check tonight if I've got some time! The engine faded away on both occasions, the last time I was able to get it running for 1 or 2 seconds right after it stalled and every time it would fade away again. Not at all like you'd switch it off!! ChasR : Anywhere I can find this guide? Might come in handy Edit: Thanks ChasR !!!!
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Last Edit: Aug 15, 2018 8:03:10 GMT by Milord
Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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fade away suggests to me fuel...spark would go off like a switch
but yeah check and prove everything
also how was the tank cleaned ? ..old fuel has caused me no end of problems
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Do compression test next.
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,586
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I've had a similar running or non running fault a few times. My old Viva would run then die. Lots of trying to start and it would fire up and run OK for a while. that was the fuel pump.
I had it another time on a an old fiat. Ran normally for a few miles, started to gradually die and then stopped altogether. Left it for a while and it restarted ran for a shorter time and then stopped again. That was he ignition coil. It was gradually getting hot, failing and then working again when it cooled down.
As you have noticed the hoses going hard it does sound like the cooling system is being overpressurised. I've had that before when the head gasket was starting to fail and found the bores filled with coolant as the car cooled down. If thats the case you might be able to see coolant if you take the plugs out and it would also stop it starting if it was bad enough.
What model Kadett is it you have ?
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Aug 15, 2018 10:24:17 GMT
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sounds like the headgasket might be going , but i don't think its the cause of the breakdown
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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Aug 15, 2018 11:17:42 GMT
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Possibly a blocked fuel tank breather, causing a gradual vacuum to build up inside the tank. Does the cap hiss when removed after the car has stalled?
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paul99
Part of things
Posts: 410
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Aug 15, 2018 12:29:47 GMT
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Fuel filter? Possible fuel lines degraded and filling the filter with gunk?
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Aug 16, 2018 10:18:41 GMT
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fade away suggests to me fuel... Yes, and me. I had trouble with the fuel line clips I'd used when it goes from solid pipe to hose, turned out that one of them wasn't quite as tight as it needed to be and it was pulling in air. That caused a breakdown with similar symptoms, just lost power and stopped, cranking would sometimes sound like it was going to start but didn't. It had run all the way there without trouble, and failed part-way home. New fuel clips and general checking of connections sorted it. Nothing to see, because between the tank and pump it's all "suck", so no fuel comes out of a loose connection.
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Milord
Part of things
Posts: 156
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So I had some time yesterday evening to check out the car. I first checked the spark, which was good in all 4 spark plugs, then went on the check the fuel-side of things. I immediately noticed some junk in the fuel filter, and after I disconnected the fuel line at the carb and tried to crank it there was no pressure at all. To rule out the fuel pump I disconnected all fuel lines and got myself a can of fresh gasoline. I let the fuel pump (still connected to the car) suck the fuel from the can and this worked perfectly. I had the car running very smoothly on the can-fuel in a matter of minutes. Fuel lines are all new, so degrading fuel lines would be very strange. I removed the fuel tank and there is still a LOT of junk inside, mostly rust. To me it seems like the fuel tank wasn't cleaned out correctly. I do wonder though, when I dismantled the float in the tank I saw that it was very rusted, I'm wondering how I can clean this properly so I don't have these kinds of problem in the future? Is it possible to restore a rusted fuel tank? Should I just look for a new one? The Opel Kadett this is about is the one in my profile pic. It's a pre-facelifted Caravan (station wagon) which makes it rather rare.
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Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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yet the first post says you cleaned it?
needs taking off , theres various ways like warm water and citric acid , tie it to a cement mixer with some gravel inside to knock off the rust , or possibly somewhere local that can do it for ££
for the sender ..would a gentle wire brushing clear it up ? several methods if it comes apart , eltroylosis /chemicals
then blow all the fuel lines out , new filter and dismantle the carb to make sure its clean ...maybe run a couple of filters and keep some in the car to swap over until its running clear
don't be talked into a coating inside to cover the rust , that will eventually lift off and clog the system
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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andy-v
Part of things
i like cookies :D
Posts: 358
Member is Online
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Aug 17, 2018 10:35:09 GMT
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"how long to leave it" till the neighbours complain, thats a classic lmao.
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Milord
Part of things
Posts: 156
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Aug 17, 2018 12:32:51 GMT
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I did clean it though, with water and fresh gasoline. Gas and water came out clean after I flushed it the umteenth time... Weirdly enough rust seems to have gotten a LOT worse since then, even though only fresh gas has been inside since... Even the filler neck is covered in rust... Mind you, the tank stood for more then 10 years before I cleaned it... Probably did something wrong... will look into a local company that can clean it for me! Or have a custom RVS tank welded for me, dunno. I’ll try to take a pic of the severity of the rust when I get round to it! Thanks for all the replies! As you all said I’ll never assume anything from now on!
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Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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