1970 Ginetta G15

Well, the plot thickens with these water pumps. I went up the barn today and collected a pump with no visible brand and a clearly marked Quinton Hazel with tape on labelled Crusty

Pump 1 - Bizzo (QH)- Reconditioned pump - Measured head Low RPM - 780mm
Pump 2 - Bizzo - Original pump on PHX - Measured head Low RPM - 860mm - High RPM - 2100mm
Pump 3 - DS-1 (QH) - Measured head high RPM - 2190mm
Pump 4 - Itchy 1 - Measured head high RPM - 2000mm
Pump 5 - DS-Chrysler Original - Measured head high RPM - 3400mm ++
Pump 6 - Molebert - Chrysler rebuilt - Measured Head high RPM - 2400mm
Pump 7 - DS-2 - Measured head high RPM - 2310mm
Pump 8 - DS-Crusty (QH)- Measured head high RPM - 2100mm

Think that DS-1 (QH) is actually the no brand one - This all had tape on so was part of the testing.

"Crusty" the QH pump has a different inlet casing again to "Rootes" and "Chrysler" - It's currently in the Ultrasonic so no pictures yet.
It also has a smaller impeller 63mm dia - Rootes and Chrysler are 66mm dia. "DS-1" - Has a plastic impeller that is also 63mm - The Outlet casings all look the same apart from a couple of differences on DS-1 that makes me think that this is a very early pump. Photo's to follow.

Cannot be totally sure at the moment but it looks like the QH pumps are a copy of an early water pump design and the small impeller may explain the lower performance.

It's all pump and squirt at your place DS.

Took a bit of time off from water pumps and decided to strip a gearbox. This particular gearbox was reportedly sounding pretty rough after seeing action in the back of PHX during the 2017 Tour of Cheshire.

Excuse the dirt and mess it was removed after the rally wrapped in plastic and stored - decisions will be made on its future at a later date.

Rear cover off - do not worry about the roller it is supposed to be there - well not there exactly - its out of its location as the cover came off.





Centre casing off - does not look too bad





And then into the diff where there were a few lumps of steel and alloy in the bottom of the casing





Tooth was from a planet gear





And as things are pretty close fitting in the casing the CROWNwheel punted it into the casing





The casing broke out and distorted the diff casing access cover and seal





And all the oil leaked out.


It probably leaked under pressure initially as the gearbox vent was blocked solid


Once thoroughly cleaned I may use it for a bit of TIG practice. The box is nothing special - just a STD ratio box - but it is the later strong casing type.

Looking at the bearings and the Syncro rings it does not look like it ran without oil for any sort of extended period. The selector rings and forks show a little bit of pick up - you can just make it out in the photo above - but the gears, shafts, bronze bushings and the bearings all appear in fairly reasonable order considering - The oil that was left - a teaspoon full! was clean and not full of metal sheen. There was some metal debris in the box where I would speculate some of the casing alloy parts got minced, but not much of it.

The diffs can be a weak point in these boxes when increased power is used. The cross pin is a bit on the weak side - Roy had some toughened pins made which went in two or three of the boxes - I know my CR/SC box has one.


I can see lots of scraping paint and dirt from casings in my future - thankfully they are not a big box.

A bit more checking and measuring and the baulk rings have all seen better days - a couple are on the limit but could be used again but two are toast and there is clear evidence of contact on them - probably the 1st and 2nd gear rings - 2nd usually dies first in a box.

Whilst continuing to do the in depth interrogation of Imp water pumps there are a couple of things I have discovered with pumps being rebuilt by others.

An area that gets damaged on the pumps are the threads that hold the pulley and fan on and to recover these damaged pumps the threads are cut off and the pump shaft tapped for a bolt.





However, what is not taken in to account is that the woodruff key protrudes into the thread so when so when the key is pushed home and the bolt done up....





Hmmmm.

The other issue is that the original early pumps had a "slinger/flinger" call it what you will to provide a protection of the original bearings from water seepage. Later when the casting was modified to provide a "sump" the "flinger" was changed for shims.





That sit on that shoulder.





If you exclude these shims which appears to be the case on all the rebuilt pumps I have come across - It changes the distance of the impeller to the volute casing, creates a larger gap, and also changes the position of the pulley on the pump by 2mm. With the larger alloy pulley's this means that they hit the pump casing.

The other thing is that the original woodruff key - shown above - is a truncated version so that they do not get driven into the bearings. The replacements provided with rebuild kits are not so take care.





Minor things but if you are going to do a rebuild of an imp pump they are worth taking into account.

Finally bearings





Many pumps have the 6202 ZZ shielded bearing types with a metal sheild - these can allow dust and water into the bearing - I personally do not rate them for this application. My preference is for the 2RS with the rubber seals that completely seal the bearing.

Rigged up a pump head test column to test the JB weld repaired "Chrysler" pump that was modified to match the "Rootes" pump that had the highest performance in the previous tests.




Pump 5 - DS-Chrysler Original - Measured head high RPM - 3400mm ++ (the Rootes pump)


The rig - The top of the tubing on the rig is 3100mm from the water level (static head) in the reservoir





I did not have the same test drill to use as we used for the initial tests which was a 3000 RPM at no load Bosch - My two mains drills are a 2800 RPM at no load Worx and a 2500 no load RPM Wickes own brand.

Using the Worx, 700 watt which was slowed slightly when driving the pump, the head generated exactly matched the height of the test rig ! at 3100mm. With the Wickes the height reached was around 300mm lower - on own so this was an estimate.

Although this test proves pretty conclusively that the Rootes pump was no fluke and the modifications to the casing do increase the performance considerably I am going to borrow the same drill used on the original tests to carry out another few test comparisons.

The bizzo Pump 1 - Bizzo (QH)- Reconditioned pump - Measured head Low RPM - 780mm - from the tests last year will be given the chance of a full RPM test head to head challenge with the JB weld - big impeller - modified case pump.

Still not machined up the dummy bearings to do the clearance measuring to see what they are as stock. The 20-30 thou clearance figure is interesting information - The shims being missed out of rebuilt Imp pumps increase the distance - from whatever it starts at - by 40 thou - Will have to try and find some detail of the Lotus info.

Or take a picture with your phone and upload that ?
James