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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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My Car My bike, I like red Triumphs!
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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That doesn’t read as a particularly impartial article to me,
I’d say most car shows are similar to bike shows, Most tend to cater for a certain market and generally that market limits who turns up.
The Weekender was no different, except that retro covers a big cross section of cars, so there were classics all the way through to fairly modern cars, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed the event so much. Even dedicated VW events I went to last year had a good mix of cars though, but they were all VWs I suppose.... but I guess because I like old VWs ,I enjoyed it
When I’ve been to bike rallies and meets they’ve generally pulled one genre of bikes too. Which is why I enjoy wandering around the carpark at any event almost as much.
I think the customisation of bikes tends to be more flamboyant, most aren’t daily drivers and a crazy bike paint job is about 1/4 of the size of a car one (and so is the cost), bikes are easier to store etc etc
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Yes, it is certainly a very different vibe between the two. I love both, bikes were my first thing, maybe because I had a moped (the famous fizzy) at 16 when you obviously could not drive car & I have never been without one since. I make my living with motorcycles & have done for over 20 yrs, but then strangely I got more into cars, I think as a release from, what was then my ‘day job’ motorcycles. I think the article is bang on though, with the fashion slant, it mentions in the bike scene. Maybe some of that comes from the fact that a lot of people have a bike as more of a ‘toy’ than maybe they do cars, not sure, interesting thoughts though
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On the subject of motorcycles, is there a photo thread of all things cool and 2 wheeled?
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"Staff photographer Lyndon McNeil examines the worlds of cars and motorcycles and their differences
Motorcycle culture is entwined with art and fashion, far more so than its four-wheeled equivalent. Recent visits to the Bike Shed’s Motorcycle Club event at Tobacco Dock, London, and ‘Retro Rides’ at Goodwood only served to emphasise the gap between the two.
Tattoo and helmet artists are very much at home in a two-wheeled world and it’s easy to see why: motorcycle culture is an accessible, open canvas for those eager to create. And motorcycles just happen to be the central focus of that.
That’s not to decry the world of the four-wheeled equivalent, as Retro Rides showed that petrolheads value ingenuity and individuality just as much as their ‘biking counterparts. But the car world is, expectedly, fragmented. With cliques having formed around the love of JDM, German or American muscle machinery, car shows tend to revolve around one subcategory. Those inclined towards motorcycles tend to have an all-encompassing appreciation of two-wheeled vehicles. And at the Bike Shed, various subcultures combined seamlessly. Vintage Ducatis sat side by side with custom ‘bikes, with Honda ‘Cubs’ thrown into the mix. Triumphs, Moto Guzzis and Nortons complete the backdrop, influencing and inspiring painters, illustrators and tattooists.
Retro Rides was a slightly sparser event in terms of punters, but the love of machinery was still there. Right now, the trend is verging towards ‘stanced’ cars: lowered, with aggressive, negative cambers – but, for the most part, a minimal amount of frills when it comes to aftermarket bodywork. Gone are the days of Max Power with big bolt-on wings and the like.
On a superficial level, cars with a rusted or faded coat, or a patina are en vogue. On the other hand, the motorcycles were preened, airbrushed and polished to the point of luminescence, showing the divergence in taste when it comes to two and four-wheeled subcultures.
Those differences will probably always remain, with ‘bikes a more readily available canvas for artists – and with those painters come tattoo artists and designers. Car shows rarely bring together all of those creative minds, but they’d be a welcome addition."
I'd say it's worse than not impartial. I would say it's written by someone who is oblivious to the full scope of either "scene".
If I may, I'll quickly run through some of the major problems with that article, and why it's nonsense.
I'm going to avoid the nonsense about tattooists. And why "helmet artists" are at a bike event and not a car one...
Firstly, he states that car fans are segmented, which is true. But to say that bikers are not is silliness. Vespa folks stick together, strongly. Superbike riders do not fraternise with those with trikes. Then there's dirt bikers, another subgroup, and those who modify their bikes, street fighters, customs and others. They mix just as much as car folks do, and subdivide themselves just like car folks. In this guys head is some kind of nirvana of every type of bike variant being admired by someone who rides something else, which just isn't the case. No more so than someone with an slammed ls400 would admire a 1936 duesenberg. He wraps that particular paragraph up by saying that vintage Ducatis and Triumphs and Nortons are somehow not in exactly the same subgroup and totally misunderstands his own point. You need to have a Harley Panhead next to your "vintage Ducati", with a S1000RR on the other side and a trials bike behind them. Does that happen? No.
Saying Retro Rides was sparser shows another inability to grasp logic. Bikes are smaller, therefore people looking at them are denser (in terms of space!) And the same amount of people, or less, will look like a thronging crowd in a show hall or small car park compared to a big old spread what many cars take.
Did you know, that cars are rat styled, and bikes are all shiny? Wow. Vintage style airbrushing, patina and cafe racer conversions are literally the hottest thing in bike modifying at the minute. Only someone totally out of touch with the scene would try that comparison.
Ok I'm done. Still plenty meat on the bone if anyone else wants a go.
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I will say this though. Old bikes are fashionable, if the right style. Old cars ain't right now. Hipster stuff has made bikes cool, and safety and ecological out cries have made cars bad. So where someone might avoid getting a rover sd1 out of the garage and fixing it up, they would get loads of insta likes if they got the old bsa next to it up and running.
Both are currently poorly served for the aftermarket with Chinese parts and not much else available now. As new bikes move ever more to efi, modifying becomes about colours and add ons, not actual substantial alteration, just as the car modifying has been in the same 10 to 15 year period up to now.
American bikes and American cars remain cool no matter what era and stock or not, because America and because big rumble. This doesn't ever change.
Personally I think the two cultures or scenes, and their respective subcultures, are much more similar than given credit for, and I would suggest they are much more coherent than people would think.
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Personally I have little time for such written comparison rubbish - it's writing something to fill some space in some place with next to nothing based on the actual fact or backed up by a glimmer of evidence - why don't they go and get a proper job that serves a real purpose that actually achieves something in their lives !
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Last Edit: Jun 8, 2018 11:44:48 GMT by Deleted
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Got to say that I agree with what surprisingskoda & @grumpynorthener say, the article really is rubbish, probably quickly written up just to fill a space that they didn't have an advert to fill. For the most part I think car people and motorbike people are very similar animals. We both have our little tribes within the big group. I also think that within both car and bike people there are a lot who appreciate both. I'm still amazed that we don't have a bike section on this forum.
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To many big words in that article for me so I can't say I really understood where the journalists was going with it I think he was implying that the bike scene is more refined and polished and it's more artistic/flamboyant with a more trendy customer
Can't see it myself I'm as must into my bikes as my cars and therefore anything I build would follow the same line (old styling with modern handling and performance) Both scenes cars/bikes have the same styles though out weather it's rat look/custom/American/sleeper/ etc
I think the biggest difference was in the events he went to I'm aware of the bike shed and I've never been because it's not my thing I don't dress in a way that would blend in with the crowds I don't have a bead and i don't have bottomless pockets Basically I'm not trendy with a good disposable income Even its location suggests money
Most of the bikes on show at the shed are not built by a bloke called Dave in his shed their small companies trying to make a name for themselves Therefore it has to stand out
You only need to go to the ace cafe or any other local bike meet on a sunny Sunday to see people like all sorts
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,391
Club RR Member Number: 84
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I've got to agree with a lot of what's been said above, the author seems a bit blinkered tbh.
The Bike Shed is a particular sub-group of bike culture, which happens to encompass a wide range of base material and a wide range of modifications from cafe racer, street tracker, bobber etc etc.
However outside of this, there are specific 70s chopper shows (the Trip Out), superbike events, dirt bike events, Harley shows and the attendees of those are generally more into their niche and less likely go to any of the others (broad brush to illustrate the point)
This is similar to the car world where you have classic shows, sports car shows, racing events, stance shows, festival of the unexceptional etc etc, where people who attend are generally more into their niche and less likely go to any of the others (broad brush to illustrate the point)
Some car niches draw hipsters with beards and tattoos, some bike niches do.
Some car cultures are entwined with art and fashion, some aren't
Some car genres are experiencing (or have done) a patina trend, some bike genres do.
Ok trends come and go and may not co-exist in bike and car worlds at the same time, but I would say there are striking similarities rather than differences. And I would say the Bike Shed caters for a similar range of bikes as Retro Rides does for cars (classics, hot rods, Japanese, European etc etc.)
The author just needs to get out more... or is being controversial
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wodge
Part of things
Posts: 455
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I will say this though. Old bikes are fashionable, if the right style. Old cars ain't right now. I agree with most of what you said but not this.... Old chrome bumpered 60/70s cars or indeed anything that looks like its from that era are bang on trend - this can be seen with massively escalating values and by the number of US style restomod businesses that have sprung up (or diversified from Motorsport companies) in the UK and Europe. I don't think 80s or 90s stuff is fashionable outside the niche yet but neither are 80s or 90s bikes particularly. I think we are starting to see a shift towards plastic fantastic 80s excess and boxiness being in demand. Early 80s transitional stuff is already gaining traction and I reckon Zakspeed kitted Mk3 Capri or Kamei Kitted XR3i will be the hot property of the next decade. .... Then Max Power will come round again All fashion is Cyclic - you just don't believe it until you are officially old
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Bikes are “on point” at the moment.
Grow a beard, take some bits off a bike, paint it satin, add tan diamond stitched seat and hey presto you have a Hipster Bike Shed entrant!
I’m of the two wheeled fraternity two, I’m a Scooterboy and I’m fed up of the Pseudo cafe racer thing 🙄
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Bikes are “on point” at the moment. Grow a beard, take some bits off a bike, paint it satin, add tan diamond stitched seat and hey presto you have a Hipster Bike Shed entrant! I’m of the two wheeled fraternity two, I’m a Scooterboy and I’m fed up of the Pseudo cafe racer thing 🙄 I must say that sort of carp pee's me off . Stripping some bits of , adding clip on handlebars , spraying it with aerosols and wrapping the exhaust does not make a ' cafe racer ' and does not double its value ! NOR ACCORDING TO TV PROGRAMMES DOES IT MAKE YOU A ' CRAFTSMANS ' !!! As above , meaningless article .
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Ive never been into bikes, i like the look of bikes from the 50's and 60's, but ive never so much been to a bike show so I don't really have an opinion on such things. In all I think his comments are very much tarring things with his own, old, slightly worn out brush. If you really looked into it you'd probably find similarities in both worlds.
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Del
South East
Posts: 1,448
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'Those inclined towards motorcycles tend to have an all-encompassing appreciation of two-wheeled vehicles.' Hmmm...my Dad once turned up to a show on a Yamaha FJ1200 , and was told 'Come on that again, and it'll go on the bonfire'.
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Last Edit: Jun 8, 2018 17:46:17 GMT by Del
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Those inclined towards retro rides tend to have an all-encompassing appreciation of wheeled vehicles
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,673
Member is Online
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Been to bike shows, Been to car shows.
The only difference apart from number of wheels is the length of the attendees hair & the amount of leather jackets with studs on - and that is it.
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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vader
Part of things
Posts: 425
Club RR Member Number: 93
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I’m a biker, have been since I was 16, never had a beard and never will, never been a hipster and never will, never been trendy and never will but, hopefully I will always be a biker. My Daytona is now 19 years old, that should make it Retro. So I have a retro car (classic really) and a retro bike
Funny how new bikes are being made to look retro, this started in the 90s though with Kawasaki but Triumph are the ones who make new cool retro bikes, however, they’re a bit pricey!
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Triumph Stag Ducati Supersport Shanks’s Pony
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I’m a biker, have been since I was 16, never had a beard and never will, never been a hipster and never will, never been trendy and never will but, hopefully I will always be a biker. My Daytona is now 19 years old, that should make it Retro. So I have a retro car (classic really) and a retro bike Funny how new bikes are being made to look retro, this started in the 90s though with Kawasaki but Triumph are the ones who make new cool retro bikes, however, they’re a bit pricey! Same with cars though, with manufacturers trying to make them look old, not just bikes. The newer Beetles, Mini, Fiat 500’s, Nissan Figaro etc etc. That’s just manufacturers a) running out of new design ideas, so they ‘back track’ & b) jumping on the bandwagon of what’s en vogue. I guess trends will all come & go, it just happens to be Bobber, Flat Tracker, Cafe Racer & Brat time
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