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ive bought a b230a engine, its got a carb on it, but i am thinking of the bosh motronik 2.2??? injection.
I hear the kjet stuff was rubbish, but the motrinic stuff was it any better?
I'm looking for 200 bhp out of this engine, so itll be getting a camshaft, and the head ported, its a 530...
does anyone know anything about that injection please?
I cant go turbo, or throttle bodies before anyone says!
thanks
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,391
Club RR Member Number: 84
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It would have been better to continue your previous thread about Volvo NA tuning, but hey ho...
The latest system used was LH2.4 which is fairly capable, the std turbo hardware will support 200+hp (injector wise anyway). It learns quickly and and uses simple sensros to control.
I have a full inlet, injectors and engine wiring from a 240 engine I bought many moons ago, where are you?
I think you'll be lucky to get that high using the std inlet without forced induction, don't think anyone has really tried it - they've either used the inlet with a turbo or binned it off for webers or throttle bodies. I assume you're constrained by some class regs?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,256
Club RR Member Number: 170
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volvo b230 tuning on injectionChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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The B230 made 130BHP on K-Jet, and the 2.0 made 120 on EFI. I've had both; first a 1991 740 2.0 EFI and then an '89 2.3 on K-Jet. K-Jet isn't that bad, but people like jumping onto bandwagons, especially on a system that operates differently to most other systems, including other injection systems. Ask someone who hates carbs and they'll love injection, like David Walker does and vice versa. It does however have limitations for tuning. I think for what you are trying to do, 200BHP sounds very ambitious; it took 16 valve heads, improvements elsewhere in the engine and so on to get engines to make close to those figures! I wish you good luck but it may not be easy! Nitrous would be one way to cheat however .
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Last Edit: Mar 6, 2018 12:45:40 GMT by ChasR
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I'm in widnes!
So, this is part of what i cant work out, is the turbo head and injection different to the n/a stuff? i would have thought it was but its low pressure turbo?
I hear that the kjet also has the injectors in the head? I know my motor has a 530 head, but not sure about injector holes, the engine hasnt arrived yet. I head also the later motronic stuff is a better system? I don't know, I'm just trying to work out what to do with it.
Atm, i have a bmw m44 engine, made to 2000cc, cams, standard inlet, and not much other tuning and its making 180 bhp and 160 lbs at the flywheel. With the extra 300cc, decent cam, up the compression, and maybe valves, i thought it woud be in teh ball park of 200, or certainly 190? Its the injection systems i cant work out, some say they are good for 200bhp, some say 170chp, and some just don't rate them at all.
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,391
Club RR Member Number: 84
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So, this is part of what i cant work out, is the turbo head and injection different to the n/a stuff? i would have thought it was but its low pressure turbo? Slightly, the turbo head has sodium filled exhaust valves and the exhaust manifold/downpipe is very different. For the 940, the inlet manifold is the same, the turbo version has pipework from the turbo, through the intercooler then into the common intake. The injectors might be different sizes, but same fitting. The ECUs (one fuel and one ignition) are different (maps etc, the boxes are the same) I hear that the kjet also has the injectors in the head? I know my motor has a 530 head, but not sure about injector holes, the engine hasnt arrived yet. I head also the later motronic stuff is a better system? I don't know, I'm just trying to work out what to do with it. They do, but you say you've bought a carb engine which won't have the injector holes, or it might have the cast bosses for them, but not machined. I personally don't like KJet - too many vacuum hoses etc. Had a nightmare with my old W123 280ce. The LH2.4 Jetronic is more sophisticated without being overly complicated and if you're not bound to either I don't see why you wouldn't choose the newer/better one Atm, i have a bmw m44 engine, made to 2000cc, cams, standard inlet, and not much other tuning and its making 180 bhp and 160 lbs at the flywheel. With the extra 300cc, decent cam, up the compression, and maybe valves, i thought it woud be in teh ball park of 200, or certainly 190? Its the injection systems i cant work out, some say they are good for 200bhp, some say 170chp, and some just don't rate them at all. That's comparing apples and oranges, the M44 is 16v (138hp @6k rpm), the B230 is 8v (130ish @5k rpm)... You really have to help the top end flow of the 8v to get high NA power (e.g. throttle bodies, etc). Or find a 16v redblock engine from a 740GLE, it depends on the reasons why you have to keep the std intake!
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,586
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Out of the non turbo engines the 2.3 B230FB code engine is supposed to be one of the best. I'm not sure if the valves were different or not but the cams were. Running without the cats in the exhaust will certainly help the power figures.
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well its going to get a cam, maybe bigger valves, and skimming to suit , get teh static compression up, for low down grunt. was talking to a guy i know in south wales who roads escorts etc, he was saying maybe not 200 bhp but defo more pulling power and usuable power, all the 4 cylinder bmws he has had on his rollers for rallying have been all revs.
So the 2.4, it can learn what to do? Is that to the extent that it can work out what fuel etc to give a full hit 2.3? I was thinking of adapting the bmw single cam management you see and getting it rollered. My m44 has been remapped, no point in after market ecus imho for my cause.
still not got the engine here, i need to take the head off and take it to the guy who built my last motor and see if he thinks its a good idea.
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200hp from 2.3, that is 87hp/l
Not undoable, but quite involving.
You probably looking at a gasflowed head with increased compression to get the long duration (circa 280deg) to work and you need that duration to get up to 7000rpm. If the increased lift, you need to change the pistons as well.
Induction wise you probably better off with ITB (hayabusa/ zx14 ones are just big enough) and megasquirt ECU. My gut feeling is that using the original intake, you will leave 10% power on the table.
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Click picture for more
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i dotn have but a 531 head is good for 200 bhp, also, reading some old emails the 2.4 is good for 200 bhp too..
My friend, he had a boat motor that was 2.5, he skimmed the head, standard exhaust cast manifold, split 50;s standard cam, and was 185 bhp. not sure what the torque was, that was on that welsh guys rollers.
I wonder how much torque a tuned motor does really...
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anyone know about ford pinto valves fitting into the 530 head?
plan is, later injection, volvo ecu, v16 cam, loads of compression, bit oh head porting, extractor manifold, maybe pinto or bigger valves, and lets see what it does!
will belike 5 months till its anywhere, guy who built my last motor is really busy...
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sweep
Part of things
Posts: 411
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Yes 44.1mm (I think that's right) Pinto inlet valves do fit, I know a chap on Volvoforums that has used these.
Also, given that Volvo made over 300bhp on their 240 race cars in the 80's on K-Jet, says a lot about bandwagons.
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that would be turbo though?
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Stu
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,913
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Hello,
Sounds like you tracked down an engine then? :-)
K-jet isn't too bad at all when setup properly, I had it on the majority of the old Golfs I used to play with. They were 1.8 or 2.0L 4 cyl (16v though) N/A, but with P&P head, and had no problem with around 180bhp with the standard injection that was originally intended for 139bhp. You need to be handy with measuring and tweaking the fuel pressure as I recall, no laptops required, it's old school. The white Mk1 ran over 190bhp for the previous owner on a rolling road day but you really needed to rev them as was the design of those engines.
Look forward to seeing how you get on with this project, surely you need torque more than bhp for your requirements anyway (I realise they are related) which an 8v engine will provide at lower rpm?
Stu
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Last Edit: Mar 9, 2018 18:32:58 GMT by Stu
'89 BMW E30 325i Sport, '04 MINI Cooper S, '09 Volvo V70 D5
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what is it actually for?
why cant you go throttle bodies or turbo?
simplest way to more power is fit a different engine that is more powerful or more tuneable.
more valves more cubes more boost more throttles.
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welsh, its a certain type of rallying, no turbo and standard injection systems!
Stu! Yes got one! I spoke to rae who built the motor in the car now, only had a few mins with him, he said the kjet isnt bad, its just setting it upf or what we want to do you need meters etc, just get it mapped on the motronic. He also said that the extra 300cc and the volvo engine would be like having a turbo to it, just brute pulling power. Needs a heavier flywheel than a revvy motor and will just pull and pull.
cant wait, call over if you are passing.
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Mar 11, 2018 20:03:07 GMT
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how come, my engine is a carb from a 240, its got a pierburg, its got a dizzy, but it also has a knock sensor and a crank sensor?
what do they do?
thanks
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,586
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Mar 11, 2018 20:15:40 GMT
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Is there a control unit of some sort for the ignition somewhere ? I don't know much about older Volvos but have seen early 80's cars that have electronic control of some sort for the ignition.
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Mar 11, 2018 20:27:00 GMT
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not that i have got here, i only got part of the loom with it, interesting, as I'm thinking of using the volvo injection inlet, and i was looking at mounting sensors, and they are already there! Same plug shapes and everything by the looks. Just didnt know what the sensors where there for on a carb motor
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,391
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Also, given that Volvo made over 300bhp on their 240 race cars in the 80's on K-Jet, says a lot about bandwagons. ...with a (large) turbo how come, my engine is a carb from a 240, its got a pierburg, its got a dizzy, but it also has a knock sensor and a crank sensor? what do they do? thanks The crank sensor is used for diagnostics IIRC. I had a B230A car for spares and fitted the electronic ignition to my B21A, pretty simple Bosch system using the dizzy yes, read here: link
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Mar 12, 2018 13:28:03 GMT
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There's a lot of Volvo rally cars in sweden making 300bhp NA, but of course the engines are crazy expensive.
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1988 740 Turbo, 1998 V90, 1991 Eunos Roadster.
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