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Ha. I wrote onion.
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 1:37:18 GMT by yoeddynz
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I think a potato would be more suitable . Less likely to bring tears to your eyes when it breaks...😂
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I had a Eureka moment (whilst on the shitter actually.. your mind concentrates under strain..) and I think I have worked out a way of doing it and keeping the Imp transaxle.
But I really must get an engine to play with.
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I was thinking about this on watch this morning, with that counter clockwise rotation what other engines did Honda do that also were in that rotation... would any of the 4x4 cars that they've done be usable.. as in taking the rear axle/diff from one of those?
Interested in how you'd do it and keep the Imp transaxle though... another sprocket or chain drive from the output shaft? Some sort of drop transfer case with 1 to 1?
I definitely wasn't looking at Honda Valkyrie/ Goldwing engines on eBay earlier..
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1987 Supercharged BMW R1150 Citroen 2cv Hillclimb Monster
1995 Renault Master Mk1 Race Transporter
1994 Mazda MX5 Mk1 / NA Road Going Class Hillclimber
1991 UMM Alter II Crew Cab OM606 SuperTurbo Diesel MegaUMM Overlander
1992 UMM Alter II Station Wagon
1980 UMM Cournil - survivor - resto project
1979 Lomax 224
2014 VW T5.1 Transporter Kombi Highline
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,699
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Not sure on CROWN wheel and onion being swappable.. But I'll know soon as I have to swap the bellhousing from the old box to the new box. I do have another idea that could work but I'll have to do some messy sketches on some oily paper first. I'd really like to find a cheap engine to mull over and spill coffee on. Sorry about that - no doubt a man of your clear talents will find a way around it - I felt it only right as I had lit the fire to at least make an attempt to stamp it out before all was lost  - As for the Imp Transaxle, upside down was the norm in a few Formula cars like the Vixen and Ginetta G17 with the Imp engine turned around to a conventional mid mount arrangement. If you look at the casing you can see a lump on the CROWNwheel side that is not there on the other - no room to swap over internally. Oh -Triumph Daytona etc. throttle bodies - two pairs onto simple manifold for the induction. Six off open pipes already sorted for the exhaust care of the Romanian. ETA, Driving a conventional helical gear gearbox in a counter rotation would only be any good for getting to the bottom of the drive and back again slowly - but I am sure that you already knew that. Whilst revisiting these old conversion idea's one that did interest me was the 1360 slant Pug engine. |
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 8:09:40 GMT by Darkspeed
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If you could install a honda flat 6 could you not install a subaru flat 4? ....also the OHC engines are very wide so it would have to be an earlier pushrod engine. Oh- I tell lies. I ssemed to remember the scooby engine being really wide.. yes it was too wide for my Viva. But not too wide for an Imp it seems...   But I'd still prefer the flat six sound :-) |
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Interested in how you'd do it and keep the Imp transaxle though... another sprocket or chain drive from the output shaft? Some sort of drop transfer case with 1 to 1? Yeah that's what I'm looking at. They have an idler gear setup. here's some pics :-)...   |
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...As for the Imp Transaxle, upside down was the norm in a few Formula cars like the Vixen and Ginetta G17 with the Imp engine turned around to a conventional mid mount arrangement. ahh yes that would be a way round it but for the shift rod sitting quite a bit higher. you'd have to run a taller tunnel for the shifter rod to run down? plus raising the cg..  |
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 9:39:47 GMT by yoeddynz
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kitch
Part of things
Counting his chickens
Posts: 157 
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Hi yoeddynz Ventured over from PH and caught up with this thread. You're doing some good work there, and especially surrounding all the rules it seems you guys have. I like the cut of your jib! Quite jealous of your surroundings too. Falling out of love with the UK at the moment - NZ looks nice! If you need any advice from someone who's been there and done it (or some of it at least) just give me a shout  Rich Hey Rich. Cheers. I'm enjoying this one which is always handy.. however the engine conversion isn't mine so it doesn't hold the same value to me as if it would had I adapted the Datsun engine myself. However... I have more Imps on the way plus this race car shell. between them I can create another Imp to which I can start a fresh with my own take on my ideal Imp  This I look forward to very much and hence I am very interested in seeing as many other engine conversions as I can so I can absorb ideas and info I really did enjoy reading your thread and it certainly got my creative juices flowing! I do have 3 spare V6 engines kicking about.... Ah, that's cool. Do you know how much the Datsun unit weighs? The standard Imp lump is about 80kg, but the engine I have in mine is 125kg or so! That said, I've lost some weight at the back and migrated it to the front end to try and balance things up a bit. Suspect the penalty is now around 20-25kg to the rear over a standard car. Don't really drive it fast enough for it to be a problem, I suspect. Biggest problem with a conversion is the transaxle. It's not very strong, and the gearing is very low (because it's designed for 35bhp or so!) I find mine is badly undergeared, which though good for acceleration, is not so great at 60mph, where it's doing 4000rpm! So for your next one, I'd recommend trying to find a way of getting round that. I'd have done it here, but to fit a bigger 5 speed box off something else would have involved cutting structural bits of car away, and that would have landed me into the fun and games of IVA, and re-registration. You know what I reckon the best lump would be? Rotary. It's not torquey (so kind to the Imp transaxle), it revs high and does it smoothly (so gearing isn't so much of an issue) and it's compact and lightweight, so handling isn't affected. If I was doing an Imp build again, I'd probably go rotary. |
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kitch
Part of things
Counting his chickens
Posts: 157
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Just read the rest of the thread. You're already there with the gearbox!
Let me know if you figure out a way to add a 5th cog!
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,699
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Does a rotary actually rev high as far as the crankshaft rotation is concerned?
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remmoc
Part of things
Posts: 919
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Box can be made to run upside down - some sidecar units and some specials were done like this
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Hi, two things spring to mind, both probably no use.
1 can the diff not be turned over in the casing like a beetle one could? Better than turning the box over.
2 audi diffs turn the opposite way to most “normal” diffs
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friend own s this and 5 more hillman imps all different models in Derry n ireland  |
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 18:15:18 GMT by shielsy68
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[/quote]
Oh- I tell lies. I ssemed to remember the scooby engine being really wide.. yes it was too wide for my Viva. But not too wide for an Imp it seems...
But I'd still prefer the flat six sound :-) [/quote]
Subaru do a flat 6 as well of course..... probably a bit big though.....
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Ah, that's cool. Do you know how much the Datsun unit weighs? The standard Imp lump is about 80kg, but the engine I have in mine is 125kg or so! That said, I've lost some weight at the back and migrated it to the front end to try and balance things up a bit. Suspect the penalty is now around 20-25kg to the rear over a standard car. Don't really drive it fast enough for it to be a problem, I suspect. Biggest problem with a conversion is the transaxle. It's not very strong, and the gearing is very low (because it's designed for 35bhp or so!) I find mine is badly undergeared, which though good for acceleration, is not so great at 60mph, where it's doing 4000rpm! So for your next one, I'd recommend trying to find a way of getting round that. I'd have done it here, but to fit a bigger 5 speed box off something else would have involved cutting structural bits of car away, and that would have landed me into the fun and games of IVA, and re-registration. You know what I reckon the best lump would be? Rotary. It's not torquey (so kind to the Imp transaxle), it revs high and does it smoothly (so gearing isn't so much of an issue) and it's compact and lightweight, so handling isn't affected. If I was doing an Imp build again, I'd probably go rotary. I think the Datsun A12 weighs in at 87kg. This is what the internets tell me. But I plan to lower it onto my old scales and see what truth there is in this. I expect its about right because its a tiny engine and the head is alloy. Like you I will offset the bit of extra weight by moving the battery and radiator to the front plus there is a fiber glass boot lid (bonnet lid... although I am tempted to keep that for the next Imp which I plan to hang on to ) Yeah- for the next imp I might just look at other transaxles. Especially if I'm looking at substantial increase in torque. However the stocking gearing doesnt worry me too much at this point. Our speed limit in NZ is 60mph and often the best roads are the ones where you'd be happy just getting to that. So to get up there quick suits me. Anything faster than 60 is futile with the cops about here. I am interested to know what/how other boxes fit into imps like. I know nothing about VW units - are they available as a (cheap to buy) 5 speed ? Probably not in NZ... Rotaries....hmmmmm :-) I do like a rotor motor it must be said.. but a Mazda 12A weighs in at 120kg dressed. Actually quite chunky. Certainly very compact. Plus they have about 110 lbft at 4000 which is similar to a stock Pinto engine. Not that lacking in torque.. certainly enough to worry an Imp transaxle if abused I reckon. |
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Does a rotary actually rev high as far as the crankshaft rotation is concerned? Do you mean rotor speed vs crank speed? The rotors rotate about 1/3rd the crank (eccentric shaft) speed. A stock 12A on standard ports will start to run out of puff above 7000 so not much point revving higher.. only extra wear on tips will be the result. However, build up a decent 12A/13B with the later stronger hardened stat gears, all nicely balanced and lightened rotors with suitable porting and you make a lovely high revving power plant. Turbine smooth. I've not driven anything as smooth as a Rotary. Its addictive. Gets in your blood :-) |
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 20:17:53 GMT by yoeddynz
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,608
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Old Renault transaxles could also be re-arranged to suit rotation. R16, Lotus Europa & likely R10, R12 etc.
Though obviously not super common anymore either & 5-speeds relatively rare, 18/Fuego, 20, (21, 25?)
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Last Edit: Apr 4, 2018 21:51:17 GMT by 79cord
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Yeah I'd been after one of those for a future 'Nissan Np35 type' build using my spare 2.5 V6 (that's my dream there and a long, long way off.....) and they seem fairly rare and pricey now. Certainly not ideal for my budget right now.
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- As for the Imp Transaxle, upside down was the norm in a few Formula cars like the Vixen and Ginetta G17 with the Imp engine turned around to a conventional mid mount arrangement. If you look at the casing you can see a lump on the CROWNwheel side that is not there on the other - no room to swap over internally.
This I look forward to very much and hence I am very interested in seeing as many other engine conversions as I can so I can absorb ideas and info 
