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I don’t know if any insurance company will touch George driving the escort, but he’s built it and learnt doing it And is now regularly servicing with supervision more modern stuff, so I will have to worry about the insurance when that time comes,he is far more advanced than I was at his age and knows a hell of a lot more already about modern cars.....perhaps he may employ me one day??!! I've rattled on about this before Dan, you might actually find that its cheaper for him on the Escort than on a 'new' eurobox, the only sensible reason i can think of is the lack of figures/data for ins co's on young driver/old car accident rates. My son can insure a 1972 V8 2 door rrc for half the price of a 1992 4 door diesel? My Nephew, when he was having trouble getting insurance just after he'd passed his test, asked me for advice. When I said 'Older car' his response was 'like, a 2006 fiesta?' Er, no Tom, not quite!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,256
Club RR Member Number: 170
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My Nephew, when he was having trouble getting insurance just after he'd passed his test, asked me for advice. When I said 'Older car' his response was 'like, a 2006 fiesta?' Er, no Tom, not quite! That's the thing, and IMO part of the problem, albeit an extreme example admittedly. I was looking through old forums the other day and a week ago I stumbled across an old copy of Classics. Most of the cars there were around 25 to 30 years old with quite a few of the cars falling into the teens in terms of age. For instance they had a Merc W123 and an Opel Manta GTE featured along with an MX-5. While the latter is potentially a unique case the other two are interesting. Both were around 15-20 years old, and considered classics probably because they were a bit old but also because they became cheap enough for the average man to afford, which was down to age as well as the cars probably having more niggles and issues at a certain age. Before, people went with old cars because they were cheap(ish) to buy but also quirky and cool by nature. These days, it seems as cars have got older the criteria has change. The cars now have to be considered older to fall into that category, and there is certainly more a show/scene colour, with the show part certainly being a big part of things. Of course, investment potential hasn't helped at all with this, probably as a knock on effect of house prices increasing more than wages have. It seems the clubs have become a little more insular and forgotten why they came about, which was to make life easier for owners in addition for them to share their experiences of how they fixed things. After all, it would make life easier for the rest of us. In short vitesseefi & @ vulgalour have encapsulated alot of the points I made in a roundabout way. Speaking of prices I know one thing. On a few occasions I have cursed myself for buying pricey cars in the past, albeit probably normally priced for most people. These days I doubt I could buy one outright, even if I did sell the cars I had now. That is also a massive limiting factor. When the young are trying to save up for a mortgage etc. spending £8k on a MkII Cortina which probably will require more by the time you buy tools, mess around and do more soon looks like an unjustifiable risk. Put it this way. I could not buy probably a third of the cars I had now if I sold what I've got. That does also get people "trapped" into keeping a car, as one member with his M3 has pointed out there. Anyway, I've said alot. It's time to put that old magazine article in. I only got the magazine as a bloke at work had a MKII Savage Cortina. To put it into perspective they were going for £800 in the late 70s, which was a house deposit then.
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Last Edit: Feb 9, 2018 22:24:33 GMT by ChasR
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Feb 10, 2018 18:32:47 GMT
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Thoughts in no particular order : We live in a disposable society, which explains why the lad killing his car and just shrugging it off Car clubs have to offer something that makes them attractive (specialist resources for a low-volume make Jowett/Bristol, support for a very popular manufacturer VW/Ford, or an active social group.) I often end up with odd-ball motors, trying to get the 9 remaining Hunter Estate owners to form a club isn't an option. The club I'm in offers decent social events and good engineering facilities, but even there I can find plenty of members that I just don't agree with. For younger drivers, cost is crazy. Initial purchase price + cost of maintenance (no experience, no mentor to show them basic maintenance, rip-off garages) + cost of insurance (classic policy only available as a 2nd car, driver must be over 25 years old, annual policy costs several months minimum wage income). Add in legislation, fuel economy (lack of !), short service intervals, etc - what is there to tept youngsters into classic ownership ? Have I missed an obvious solution ?
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donk
Part of things
Posts: 57
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Feb 10, 2018 18:54:29 GMT
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Thoughts in no particular order : For younger drivers, cost is crazy. Initial purchase price + cost of maintenance (no experience, no mentor to show them basic maintenance, rip-off garages) + cost of insurance (classic policy only available as a 2nd car, driver must be over 25 years old, annual policy costs several months minimum wage income). I do have to agree with this, it just seems a lot of obstacles in the way, and not so much encouragement. You just have think how much money is now tied up within the classic world. A typical beaulieu weekend and look at how much money is on that field in those two days. Plus the price of finding somewhere to store a project, if you want one and don't have the room near you. So what is going to happen when the older generation do go? Along with skills, and soon to be even more valuable cars. Pricing out any young and enthusiastic interest?
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"That looks alright"
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Feb 10, 2018 19:06:47 GMT
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Years ago someone I know had an engineering apprentice working with him. Having carried out a repair he left the lad to refit an alloy cover with 8 securing bolts.
Half an hour later the lad came up to him and said 'I can't get the bolts in. The first one was Ok, I fitted the second with a hammer, but the others won't go in at all!'
Of course said lad had fitted the first bolt and tightened it, distorting the cover, hence the problems with the others.
My friend took responsibility, his argument was that he should have made sure the lad knew what to do before he left him to it, but I know an awful lot of people that would have had a sense of humour failure over it, and blamed it on the apprentice.
And this is what I believe is often wrong with the mentality of some of those 'in the know', they DO know, they're just not able/prepared to pass on that knowledge, hence the decline in car clubs/manufacturing/engineering, call it what you will. Maybe.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,256
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Feb 10, 2018 19:20:48 GMT
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I was discussing one point today with a fellow RRer. We've been in a disposable society since the 1960s ; it's not a new thing at all. Here's an example. My dad back in '95 had an '87 Metro Turbo which cost him the grand total of £600. In late '97 the gearbox blew itself to bits, hardly an uncommon thing to do. It would be about the 4th time it had gone in the car's history, and it's why the last owner sold the car. Back then a good Metro Turbo wasn't worth more than £1k tops and given that by the time the garage had fitted and sourced another gearbox it would have been unviable to the car. Getting a Jack Knight item would have futureproofed the car and kept it reliable but when the 'box alone was £1.5k in 1996 that was crazy to spend on an Metro Turbo. As a result it went for £150 to someone else. I know my garage I go to bought all sorts of cars in the 70s and 80s and binned them as soon as minor/major stuff went wrong as it just wasn't worth their while repairing it. This IMHO is one reason why values have gone up. If you go to Europe secondhand car prices are much higher over there. Take my E46 M3 ; they command a much higher premium in Germany than they do over here. www.ooyyo.com/germany/c=CDA31D7114D2854F111BFE6FBA7D355B85A01D7FC4D489B51608F54EBD/2217098728988662140.html/www.ooyyo.com/germany/c=CDA31D7114D2854F111BFE6FBA7D355B85A01D7FC4D489B51608F54EBD/1620035546133479517.html/Even in 2006 when my friend wanted to buy a cheap smoker in Spain a Volvo 240 was 1500 Euros in a rough state. To put it into perspect we paid £570 for a pair of 740s over here with both of them having 12 months ticket.
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I just had a look at another site ("piston ... something or other ) and got a couple of pop-up questions very similar to the ones we are discussing here. It's either a shared concern or the question has spread between forums
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Last Edit: Feb 11, 2018 10:00:23 GMT by nomad
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Feb 11, 2018 22:14:20 GMT
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I’m 19 now always been into my old cars. Fully qualified mechanic work for a company restoring TR’s. First car was a Singer Vogue. Rebuilt the engine replaced sill and front wings. Still use it in nice weather aswell as a modern car for going to work and driving in winter. The biggest problem for us young enthusiasts is insurance. I knew what I wanted and saved cost a lot but worth it to be driving my Vogue. The way forward for young drivers are Beetles or Morris Minors.
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Feb 11, 2018 23:33:51 GMT
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what age did ye start 19 fully qualified FAIR PLAY TO YOU
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Feb 12, 2018 10:51:17 GMT
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To be honest I was pretty hands on thanks to learning a lot from my dad went to college at 16 did my apprenticeship and I’m full time now
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Davey
Posted a lot
Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,320
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Feb 12, 2018 14:45:42 GMT
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I started fiddling with my own stuff at 17 then college to become a professional spanner twiddler. With my own apprentice by 19!!
y fathers passion for his first cars is what made me fall in love with classic minis I rememeber having laminated photos of all his cars on my bedroom walls and that led too this site, which is single handedly responsible for my addiction to rusty old rubbish.
I also have a love for the 90's Japanese market stuff but i think that is down to me being of that age at 26 now!
Now being a home owner with a garage and workshop i'm in heaven and if i do ever end up with kids i will well and truly ruin their fragile infant minds with my old car addiction!
This said i have always been interested in how things work and how i could fix them which I suppose makes taking cars to pieces the logical progression.
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Last Edit: Feb 12, 2018 14:47:04 GMT by Davey
K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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That’s cool man. I’d love to set up on my own in the near future. Any tips?
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Davey
Posted a lot
Resident Tyre Nerd.
Posts: 2,320
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That’s cool man. I’d love to set up on my own in the near future. Any tips? When i say garage and workshop i mean at home as a hobby! Sorry for misunderstanding haha.
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K11 Micra x3 - Mk3 astra - Seat Marbella - Mk6 Escort estate - B5 Passat - Alfa 156 estate - E36 compact Mk2 MR2 T-bar - E46 328i - Skoda Superb - Fiat seicento - 6n2 Polo - 6n polo 1.6 - Mk1 GS300 EU8 civic type S - MG ZT cdti - R56 MINI Cooper S - Audi A3 8p - Jaguar XF (X250) - FN2 Civic Type R - Mk2 2.0i Ford Focus
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Feb 13, 2018 14:00:01 GMT
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My middle lad got his first car when he was 9, a freebie Mk1 fiesta donated by his school secretary, blew it up thrashing it round a field, learnt how to change an engine, and its all been downhill from there! He now owns 5 cars, capri, sierra, Mk1 and mk2 fiestas and a 105E, think he likes Fords. DOWNSIDE. where are all my parts, tools, cutting discs, why is there no gas in the MIG (again)etc etc etc 'If you even LOOK at my 1600E there will be immense amounts of pain....'
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