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when i joined my club i was 26 and not wanted in the club ,it was full of 1 foot in the gravers ,am 49 now and realise i don't need a club
the club needed me,tomuch ole crapp and religion,being n ireland lol , i walked 11 years ago and never looked back , i spendmy time teaching TINY , he s now learning speed limits ,rd signs, etc and wants an other car
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I’m not saying I pushed George from an early age but.......
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1989 Sierra sapphire 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Isn't club membership just an older generation thing anyway? (Hence the appeal of sites such as this, Facebook groups, etc.) Depends on how you structure your club and what support you offer - if it's just a club where most of the members join to brag how much better there car is than any one else's - you know the type that place mirrors under the cars when parked then maybe you are right. We have a club that is just about the only resource for parts & technical resource for the marque so it soon becomes difficult to run a model without being a member - take the rest of the benefits into consideration that the club offers and becomes quite appealing but you are quite correct in stating that social media has certainly bridged the gap between club membership & non club membership.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,243
Club RR Member Number: 146
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EDITED TO ADD: a bunch of replies came in as I wrote this, I was replying to the same post as Grumpy.
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Definitely. That's why they need to change. Historically joining a club was both an access to difficult to find information and in some cases a status symbol. By saying you were a member of X club you were declaring your loyalty and dedication to the vehicle you owned. Now the concern is more "what do I get for this?" because information is much more freely available. Unless a club is offering something special such as events, good quality parts or really decent discounts, what's the appeal?
Too often even really good club websites and forums don't have much in the way of useful information either for free or in their club members section. You have to shout into the wind and hope someone hears you. That's fine until inevitably the person with all the knowledge dies and nobody thought to write it down! Whenever I can, I do little tutorials for the various sites I'm on and it's information that really does help people out. It's the sort of information I wanted to find and couldn't so I feel obligated to put that information out there for others to make use of, that's what being a member of a club is about for me.
A really good active club will do this through their magazine and online presence. If you look at things like the various Triumph clubs, there's usually a good amount of information on problems, solutions and even the sorts of parts not to buy. On the flipside, VW clubs seems to be some of the worst offenders for offering nothing at all for the same subscription, but then that seems to be a part of VW culture for some reason, rather like the rivet counters are in the traditional classic circles.
I've been in good and bad clubs, am in good and... well not bad, but not great... clubs at the moment. My annual membership is usually offset by my savings on insurance, funnily enough, which is why I stick with them for the most part. The benefit is that the really good ones have actually helped me keep cars going and save me money chasing problems by pointing out what a thing is straight away. I'm not really in the clubs for the social aspect, but even so I find myself being sociable on the rare occasions work lets me get to meetings and such. It can be nice to be around people where you can just talk about your hobby and not have to curb your enthusiasm or talk about what celebrity was doing what to who, or some other mundane nothingness.
Clubs aren't dead, and the good ones are evolving to survive. The really old fashioned ones will likely only survive a short time before their membership literally dies out and I can't say that they'll be that much missed. The really curse word ones will also die out as people realise they're getting nothing and stop paying, they too will not be missed.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2018 23:00:05 GMT by vulgalour
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EDITED TO ADD: a bunch of replies came in as I wrote this, I was replying to the same post as Grumpy. --- ALL of the above. Yup. And that will lead to sites like this, where the classic car community becomes the biggest classic car club. In time I would imagine certain clubs of similer related cars will become joined at the hip, in order to support each other and bump up each others numbers. Benifits like spare parts, cleaper insurance, knowledge and help are all available online now so one make clubs will become less and mixed-make area clubs will become more common.
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As a 24 year old I may fall in this bracket (but am slowly creeping into adulthood?!), I worked my gonads off since I was 13 to pay for all my cars and projects. and still do to this day! Come across all sorts over the years - grumpy old gits, had a racist guy once, but he soon got told to jog on(not in those words may I add much worse) and met some downright rude turd stains. BUT the owners club I have always been a member of and has always taken a decent and modern/moving with the times approach has been the mk1 Cortina owners club!(ironic as I own 3 of the buggers!) the annual rally you meet a load of owners who all have always been great guys, the spares and advice available is spot on. and age is merely just a number. I do feel there is a lot more to be done to welcome younger audiences in, but then again the car criteria may be a bit too modern. its a shame but I'm sure something better can and will be done and more people driving more interesting older cars other then a modern VAG with wind deflectors and stickers. EDIT: I forgot to add, all guys I have met through here weather that be through shows/meets, buying or selling cars or parts have been a pleasure! not a bad thing to say at all! very welcoming and friendly, hope to meet more this year
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2018 0:00:11 GMT by slammage
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EDITED TO ADD: a bunch of replies came in as I wrote this, I was replying to the same post as Grumpy. --- ALL of the above. Yup. And that will lead to sites like this, where the classic car community becomes the biggest classic car club. In time I would imagine certain clubs of similer related cars will become joined at the hip, in order to support each other and bump up each others numbers. Benifits like spare parts, cleaper insurance, knowledge and help are all available online now so one make clubs will become less and mixed-make area clubs will become more common. Whilst I agree with your point about the forums such has RR becoming the largest classic / retro communities. I would disagree with the two further points that you make. Separate clubs supporting the same model / make are separate for a reason and quite often have been formed out of the original club due to disagreements / clash of personalities etc - although that they would be stronger by pooling their resources and becoming one club the very reason for being separate clubs in the first place prevents them from taking the common sense approach. The stronger one make car clubs will always survive, although these clubs tend to support the less favourable makes & models they have a strong core of members, unrivalled technical knowhow & support and a strong social aspect, above that due to the uniqueness of the marque that they support they tend to organise / manage their own parts source / supply / department and whilst you can obtain common parts & technical advice for common vehicles online try finding a handbrake cable for a Armstrong Siddley, Railton, Lea Francis or a Jowett online then attempt in finding the extract from the factory workshop manual and the owners modifications that improve the use of the part online for such models and you will be disappointed.
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2018 15:13:40 GMT by Deleted
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Also with the younger people getting involved We need to realise most grew up in the late 90s early 2000s and like cars from that era.....we need to encourage it Point in case was at the show where George won best car An old boy with a hot rod moaned it was a “modern car” His face was a picture when the public votes were read out!!......fair to say most of the car owners and public there read the car build story and appreciated the boys enthusiasm and work At least this forum embraces this ethos fully Totally agree with this Dan! Most (not all) old car lovers have a nostalgic link with them. My love of 80’s stuff is because I was born in 1981. I remember seeing a black RS500 for the first time! Wow! My kids were born 2009 and 2011, they haven seen many 90’s, 80’s or earlier cars, in the very near future the cars that will ignite nostalgic memories for them are likely to be “that old 2008 c-class their mum had. Or sitting up high in Dads old 2012 Transit. Just like when I joined this forum in 2005 with my 17 year old E reg SD1. These kids are only ten years away from driving, will this forum still have a Y reg or older thing going on? If it does it will exclude them and most young people. I’m not say that’s wrong, if we want to keep a focus on “our” retro cars. They just won’t be “young peoples” retro cars
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we have to pass on the knowledge to the young , its them that will keep it alive
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donk
Part of things
Posts: 57
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Falling into grumpynorthener's 5%.
I think encouraging a younger blood into the classic and retro world is going to be quite a challenge. I think every marque is in the same situation when it comes to vintage and older cars. There is no silver bullet. Though with the internet it is certainly a step in the right direction, trying to bring the knowledge of the experienced to wide audience. I know it was big help when I was 16/17 starting out on the restoration of my late fathers car. Growing up I didn't know anything nor did I wish to know anything about how a car worked. But with the help of an encouraging club through personal advice, phone calls and forums. Every question I had was answered, even the stupid ones looking back. Though how do you get the answers if you don't ask questions. 10 years later, many miles of happy motoring and thousands of hours tinkering away I am very grateful to such an enthusiastic group of people helping me achieve my goal.
An affinity with the car one grew up with or liked I guess would encourage a person to have ago if they had enough interest. But I'm not sure how an outsider as it were, would be introduced.
The FBHVC idea I think is nice start to putting older classics into a new drivers hands, though I can understand why some would be put off by it. Different pedal arrangements or gearing changes, I have had people put off by "having ago" Also the value of "if" they crashed it. Just the thoughts of travelling 30mph everywhere is also off putting perhaps even comical. Most of the questions I get asked by young is the top speed or hp.
I have friends with Minis, Land rovers, Porsches even in the past metros with various engine mods. Because that is what their first cars were or project cars now. Back to the affinity or love of a design.
I also think the classic car market (Older) (Maybe even some of the iconic marques) is pricing out potentials when your struggling to sort out other life things, a project car is probably down on the list of life goals at a younger age, you always hear the stories of I had one of those but family came along tales. Though I do have to say my first car was a VW Mrk1 Caddy pick up it was a rusting around its wheels, and never got anywhere without breaking down. As most of my tinkering was on a simple 1930s car. The caddy was pretty cool, but didn't have that much of an interest towards it. Though they seem to be having their value now.
I guess the best thing is to keep working on them, using them.
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"That looks alright"
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I am 27, not sure how young that's considered, but I love classic cars and have a 1993 Ford Orion and 1984 Land Rover 110. Several good friends of mine are around the same age and some of my brother's friends are in their early 20's are all really into cars, one partly owns a restoration workshop. I think there's a lot of young people with an interest in cars and classic cars, but I may be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if one major problem for youngsters these days and something preventing them joining clubs is the cost of classic cars. The prices have risen sharply in the last 10 years, when I was 17, I had bought my first Land Rover 110 V8 (it was a little tatty but ran fine) for £700, you couldn't buy that for £2000 now probably, and I remember seeing Capri MK3's in great condition for under a grand when I was 17, nowadays you'd likely be looking at an absolute shed for that money. (Of course that said, there's still bargains out there, just harder to find).
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I was working at a house last week, there was a car across the road that I thought was crashed and waiting recovery, it was a 2000 Toyota Yaris (I think). A while later a lad and his mum turned up, and as I was getting something from the van she told me that he’d hit a pothole and had a puncture. I went to help the lad change the tyre, which turned out to be tyres. He had hit something hard enough to smash the rims and break the beads on both drivers side tyres, then driven it about another 1/2 mile until the front tyre came off the rim. It had damaged both bumpers, destroyed 2 wheels and tyres, looked like it had bent the front wishbone, and the stench of clutch could be smelled from the house I was working at. Whilst talking he said that when it stopped, they parked it up and walked to a mates house..... he couldn’t care less, wasn’t upset or embarrassed he’d killed his car, the impression I got was that his parents would just have to buy him another! If nothing else, we need kids to understand having a car is a privilege and not a right, I think that is one of the biggest shifts over the nearly 30 years since I got a car
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I’ve been thinking for a while, that when Ella starts to drive, I don’t want her to have one of the 10yo £5-800 small cars out there.... a lot of mates kids have or had Corsas, fiestas and small runaround like that Yaris... but their parents have the philosophy that if it breaks they’ll throw it away and get another.... this makes me think that getting Ella into a classic (because I couldn’t afford new anyway) and helping her to keep it running will hopefully teach her to respect and look after cars.
But I have been led to believe that a lot of classic policies are only available for older than 25, or with no claims, so the insurance companies obviously don’t share my view
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And I think Tom has the car bug, not just because of me,
He will often start conversations about cars or the mechanics of cars, and though at the minute I think he’d be as just as happy to play computer games as work on the car, I think that is more to do with it being cold and wet currently
He does currently lean towards new supercars more than retros, but he is also determined that the Fug will be his first car!
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I don’t know if any insurance company will touch George driving the escort, but he’s built it and learnt doing it And is now regularly servicing with supervision more modern stuff, so I will have to worry about the insurance when that time comes,he is far more advanced than I was at his age and knows a hell of a lot more already about modern cars.....perhaps he may employ me one day??!!
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1989 Sierra sapphire 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Whilst talking he said that when it stopped, they parked it up and walked to a mates house..... he couldn’t care less, wasn’t upset or embarrassed he’d killed his car, the impression I got was that his parents would just have to buy him another! If nothing else, we need kids to understand having a car is a privilege and not a right, I think that is one of the biggest shifts over the nearly 30 years since I got a car Ive often wondered if this sort of mentality is a result of computer games. Take GTA for example. Get a car, smash it up, abandon it, pick up another, repeat, and if it really fouls up just reboot and start again. I'm not saying that they don't know the difference between a computer game and real life, but even if I didnt care for the car id still be thinking 'wtf am i going to do now?' Or mabie he's just going to go round his mates and chill innit?
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^^^^ chill innit wiv me bro’s ........what is that all about!!!
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1989 Sierra sapphire 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Hmm I can't say I'd blame GTA for this, I think the games are actually a good thing, getting people into older cars and music they might never have experienced otherwise. Personally I feel the problem is our "throw away" society, where everything is built with an intended lifespan and not designed to be taken apart and fixed, look at televisions, I have an old Mitsubishi TV from the 80's that still works and back in the day you'd call the repair guy if something went wrong, and someone would be able to come round and fix it, maybe replace a part or two. I don't think many TVs from today will still be working in almost 40 years time. Same goes for so many things- radios, even tractors that used to be made of steel and could last forever are now half built from plastic that'll go brittle and crack after 5 years. Things like the car scrappage scheme haven't helped much either- never mind that keeping an old car going is better for the environment than building and destroying one every 7 years, look how many perfectly working cars were lost to that and it adds to the "just throw it away and get a new one" mindset. Maybe it is true young people tend to be disproportionately ungrateful when it comes to things like cars and technology, but I can't really say I blame young people who are born into a society with this mindset and know no different.
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Maybe it was just "That'll teach you to buy me a Yaris!"
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I grew up around classic cars, authough this was in thew 80's and 90's I considered 50's-70's cars 'normal'. When I went to school no one else was into cars, it was all football and computer games. This was pretty much the same for me started high school in the mid 90s, from about 5 I spent time "helping" my dad work on cars learning everything necessary, obsessed is not a strong enough word for how I was, the lads at school were all bothered about football, not me I wasn't interested in league tables it was torque figures and power outputs that rattled around my head.
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