Milord
Part of things
Posts: 155
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About the same legal issue in Belgium, only 'loophole' I've managed to find is a dolly, since technically the car is still on it's own rear wheels you're only towing the front half of the weight. When taken to a weight station they are only allowed to weigh the trailer/dolly's axle, not the rear axle of the vehicle on the dolly. This gives you the opportunity to tow quite a few vehicles with a normal licence.
Only disadvantage is: technically the towed vehicle IS using the road, so must be taxed and tested...
Laws are even more complicated here, I have my agricultural licence, so I can tow up to 44 (or in some cases even 48 tonnes behind a tractor. Yet somehow I'm not allowed to tow even a single kilogram above 749kg behind my daily car, even though it's taxed and tested to tow up to 3500kg... nightmare.
Never had any problems with the dolly so far, bit of a discussion sometimes but so far I've always gotten away with it. Even just towing a vehicle in need is allow, so sometimes I take my fixed towbar and disconnect some fuses so that I can "show" the towed car isn't working!
Don't know if this grey area might work in the UK though.
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Currently: BMW E46 320i Touring BMW E34 525TDS Touring VW T3 panel van 1.6d Opel Kadett C1 Caravan 1.2 Fiat 411R
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I passed in '99 so am in the same boat as you, when I went to pick up my mini, I did it like this.. Tow car - BMW 330ci - Gross Vehicle weight 1930kg - Actual weight - 1530kg - Towing Weight - 1700kg Trailer - Ifor Williams LM126G - Gross weight - 3500kg - Actual weight - 675kg Mini - 640kg Ebay Trailer plate for a tenner, downrate the trailer to 1560kg. Gross train weight is now 3490kg, actual weight was probably closer to 3000kg Lovely Interesting Goose! I'm borrowing a trailer on Saturday to pick my Mini up from my Lockup in Horncastle and bring it home to Grimsby. I'll be towing with my A4 and the Mini has no engine in it so I'm massively under on weight, I think I'll be alright. It has to be better than when I used my 330d and Patty's dads builders trailer to take the B2000 home from Essex... Just make sure you don’t give them a reason to stop you .... lights tyres properly strapped down etc.
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About the same legal issue in Belgium, only 'loophole' I've managed to find is a dolly, since technically the car is still on it's own rear wheels you're only towing the front half of the weight. When taken to a weight station they are only allowed to weigh the trailer/dolly's axle, not the rear axle of the vehicle on the dolly. This gives you the opportunity to tow quite a few vehicles with a normal licence. Only disadvantage is: technically the towed vehicle IS using the road, so must be taxed and tested... Laws are even more complicated here, I have my agricultural licence, so I can tow up to 44 (or in some cases even 48 tonnes behind a tractor. Yet somehow I'm not allowed to tow even a single kilogram above 749kg behind my daily car, even though it's taxed and tested to tow up to 3500kg... nightmare. Never had any problems with the dolly so far, bit of a discussion sometimes but so far I've always gotten away with it. Even just towing a vehicle in need is allow, so sometimes I take my fixed towbar and disconnect some fuses so that I can "show" the towed car isn't working! Don't know if this grey area might work in the UK though. Yes we have sone strange rulings here, a couple of our younger HGV drivers can drive a 32 tonner everyday,but cant tow a caravan on his car ........
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Jan 10, 2018 13:16:41 GMT
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I passed in '99 so am in the same boat as you, when I went to pick up my mini, I did it like this.. Tow car - BMW 330ci - Gross Vehicle weight 1930kg - Actual weight - 1530kg - Towing Weight - 1700kg Trailer - Ifor Williams LM126G - Gross weight - 3500kg - Actual weight - 675kg Mini - 640kg Ebay Trailer plate for a tenner, downrate the trailer to 1560kg. Gross train weight is now 3490kg, actual weight was probably closer to 3000kg Lovely Hi, You had nothing to worry about because the key was the fact that the actual gross train weight was below 3500kgs and you weren't exceeding the towing weight of the car. The fact the trailer had a 3500kgs max weight was irrelevant in this instance because it was operating below gross. Colin
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2018 13:20:14 GMT by colnerov
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Jan 10, 2018 14:57:49 GMT
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that's not the full letter of the law.
that's like me driving an empty 7.5 tonner because it weighs less than 3.5t/
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Mike D
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,196
Club RR Member Number: 57
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Trailers, weights and lawsMike D
@v8mike
Club Retro Rides Member 57
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Jan 10, 2018 21:34:19 GMT
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Hi, You had nothing to worry about because the key was the fact that the actual gross train weight was below 3500kgs and you weren't exceeding the towing weight of the car. The fact the trailer had a 3500kgs max weight was irrelevant in this instance because it was operating below gross. Colin As Welshpug rightly said, it doesn't matter that it was operating below it's 3500 limit, the law goes of the maximum allowable weight, not the actual weight - I assume it's a bit like going equipped.... The Gov.uk site references the allowing of downplating if the 'vehicle' is not to be used at maximum capacity, so for a tenner and a few minutes with the letter stamps I thought better safe than sorry. I've become a right pussy in my old age
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Hi, When DVSA started applying the rules more vigorously they did use the potential weight it could be to penalise people until the Traffic commissioner stopped them and said they had to go by what the rig actually weighed. There was this copy of a circular on this posted earlier in this thread by guslopez, Colin
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that's not the full letter of the law. that's like me driving an empty 7.5 tonner because it weighs less than 3.5t/ If you can find a 7.5 tonner that weighs less than 3500kg I have a long list of buyers especially if they are recovery trucks as being able to carry 4000kg would be very useful.
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Yes we have sone strange rulings here, a couple of our younger HGV drivers can drive a 32 tonner everyday,but cant tow a caravan on his car ........ [/quote] yes they can as long as the combined weight doesn't exceed 3500kg and the caravan doesn't exceed the allowed towing weight of the car.
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that's not the full letter of the law. that's like me driving an empty 7.5 tonner because it weighs less than 3.5t/ If you can find a 7.5 tonner that weighs less than 3500kg I have a long list of buyers especially if they are recovery trucks as being able to carry 4000kg would be very useful. Isuzu Canter, bare chassis cab is actually under 2500kg, there is a lad a few doors away driving one, ill ask what it actually weighs.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 11, 2018 20:18:44 GMT
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Hi, When DVSA started applying the rules more vigorously they did use the potential weight it could be to penalise people until the Traffic commissioner stopped them and said they had to go by what the rig actually weighed. There was this copy of a circular on this posted earlier in this thread by guslopez, Colin I hope this is true because it makes things much simpler. And my bum hole will stop twitching when I need to tow stuff!
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Jan 11, 2018 21:20:35 GMT
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that's not the full letter of the law. that's like me driving an empty 7.5 tonner because it weighs less than 3.5t/ If you can find a 7.5 tonner that weighs less than 3500kg I have a long list of buyers especially if they are recovery trucks as being able to carry 4000kg would be very useful. I bet the little Isuzu NQR recovery truck we have at work would come close to 3500kg unladen, I’ll have to take a look at the printout from when it went over the weighbridge last year. It’s the smallest 7.5 tonner I’ve seen, it doesn’t even have air brakes.
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If you can find a 7.5 tonner that weighs less than 3500kg I have a long list of buyers especially if they are recovery trucks as being able to carry 4000kg would be very useful. I bet the little Isuzu NQR recovery truck we have at work would come close to 3500kg unladen, I’ll have to take a look at the printout from when it went over the weighbridge last year. It’s the smallest 7.5 tonner I’ve seen, it doesn’t even have air brakes. None of our 7.5 tonners have air brakes.
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Jan 12, 2018 18:14:49 GMT
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Hi, When DVSA started applying the rules more vigorously they did use the potential weight it could be to penalise people until the Traffic commissioner stopped them and said they had to go by what the rig actually weighed. There was this copy of a circular on this posted earlier in this thread by guslopez that was my understanding. that (example) if you had a trailer with a MAM of 2200kg you had to treat it as your are towing 2200kg in all calculations, even when unladen. but as per your letter, and also .gov website since its gone all simple and "idiots guide", it has rebuked that.
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Jan 12, 2018 18:59:26 GMT
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If you can find a 7.5 tonner that weighs less than 3500kg I have a long list of buyers especially if they are recovery trucks as being able to carry 4000kg would be very useful. I bet the little Isuzu NQR recovery truck we have at work would come close to 3500kg unladen, I’ll have to take a look at the printout from when it went over the weighbridge last year. It’s the smallest 7.5 tonner I’ve seen, it doesn’t even have air brakes. I was 40kg out, it weighed in at 3540kg. It is only a basic beaver tail truck though so it doesn’t carry any heavy hydraulics for a slider bed etc.
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I bet the little Isuzu NQR recovery truck we have at work would come close to 3500kg unladen, I’ll have to take a look at the printout from when it went over the weighbridge last year. It’s the smallest 7.5 tonner I’ve seen, it doesn’t even have air brakes. I was 40kg out, it weighed in at 3540kg. It is only a basic beaver tail truck though so it doesn’t carry any heavy hydraulics for a slider bed etc. Being pedantic here but that's what I call a car transporter not a recovery truck but cheers for confirming the weight.
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I was 40kg out, it weighed in at 3540kg. It is only a basic beaver tail truck though so it doesn’t carry any heavy hydraulics for a slider bed etc. Being pedantic here but that's what I call a car transporter not a recovery truck but cheers for confirming the weight. I agree it’s not great for recovery, as a car dealership the work is mainly new car transportation with a few recoveries thrown in. We used to have a DAF twin deck for transportation and an Iveco with slider and spec lift before for recovery but downsized to one truck last year. With this new truck the driver struggles with a recovery that isn’t a straightforward job, if the wheels aren’t all pointed in the right direction it’s quite hopeless
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 15, 2018 11:48:58 GMT
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Well I survived my little car trailer towing adventure a few members of the constabulary passed me and didn't really bat an eye lid. Phew!
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Hi, Be careful there's more to this than meets the eye, which you have realised. you need to consider vehicle limits as well as licence limits. When did you pass your test? If you did the trailer test it will remove all this worrying about licence limits. www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories Colin Pedantically, I'd advise that it isn't when you passed your test, but more like when the DVLA first issued your license. The important criteria is to look at your entitlements. I passed my test in South Africa in 1989 (car) & 1990 (HGV), as the test is the same as the UK test, the DVLA will issue you a license when you send your SA one in, which I did. So my license says that I passed my test in 1990 (In SA the HGV supercedes the Car test, so that was the only date, and the DVLA ignored the HGV part, only issued the car license). When you look at the categories of entitlement, I have the same as someone who passed their test after 1997. Long story short, while I actually did my HGV test to drive articulated vehicles 25 tons and above, I can't event drive a 7 tonner in this country.
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Sept 18, 2019 15:53:21 GMT
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I had a similar experience a few years ago when i went to try and hire a trailer and move my shell of a car to my new house.
I borrowed my dads 330d and set off to the trailer hire company. They looked at my licence and said i needed Part E. I said i'm entitled to tow a combined train of 3.5Tonnes. They said, yes but the trailer is rated for 2Tonne and therefore i'm not entitled. I said my towing car weighs 1600Kg, the body shell of my car weighs 400Kg therefore i have 1500Kg for the weight of the trailer.
The boss then came out and was quite rude and said it goes of what you could use the trailer for, not what you would be actually doing. The first guy even said he could tape over the rating plate on the trailer but the boss wouldn't let him.
I thought it daft as I said that is like me buying a Ferrari. I could drive 180mph down the road but i'm not going to therefore why should i be penalized?
The boss then looked at my towing car and said it wouldn't be capable of towing anything anyway, which kinda wound me up even more.
As others have mentioned, its a very grey area that still seems to rely on individual interpretation of the rules. At the time i looked into a licence extension but like driving lessons, because of the ruling, companies were making a killing charging for lessions, then you had to send off for a new licence which also cost. Although it is good that safety is looked at, you can't help think it was done to make money by adding more check points to try and reach.
I always wondered what the case was for a homemade trailer with no manufacturers plate or rating.Then it would have to go off actual weight not potential.
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