fer4l
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Testing
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Club RR Member Number: 73
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Max train weight 3500kg?!?!fer4l
@fer4l
Club Retro Rides Member 73
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Only time I've been pulled towing was using my sons RRC to pull my 12' trailer, with a hand-written numberplate in marker pen, the same size letters as a commercial one, The car is registered to a 24YO without a trailer licence. The reason? 'We couldn't read the number plate' BO%*&^KS! They COULD read the plate, we'd just driven past an ANPR camera, so they pulled us to see who was driving, having run a make on the car. I've got grandfather rights, an HGV class 1, and I'm insured to drive the car. Moral, make sure that the car and trailer are legal, and look it, you'll have no problems. Well there you go! I have grandfather rights too and always use my own cars for towing (or my neighbour's Shogun, but he's older than me, so has the same rights!) Which probably accounts for my lack of pulls whilst towing. My motor trade insurance, which would show up on an ANPR check probably helps as well. An interesting point on number plates, The number plate on the trailer doesn't HAVE to match the one on the car, as long as both plates are registered in your name, you're OK! Otherwise types like me would need 6 different trailer plates and a James Bond type quick change system! Steve Are you certain that's right? I always thought it had to match the tow car? Re train weight, even if everything looks OK, if you're over you're uninsured. Not worth risking it in a month of Sundays... Cheers Matt
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Defo HAS to match, lost count of the number of our drivers (I was a truck fitter for 25 yrs) who have been nicked because they had not swapped the trailer plate over when they picked up a different artic trailer. The other point is, from a point of a small trailer or car trailer etc, the trailer itself isn’t necessarily insured, just covered by virtue of the fact it’s on the back of whatever is pulling it, so what would be the point of putting a plate on that does not match the towing vehicle? www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/rules-number-plates
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2017 8:03:31 GMT by rattlecan
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düdo
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wide as house
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Do car papers in UK have max permissable tow weight? Here in D the whole trailer business is a highly developed bureaucracy : If you get pulled while towing a car, you have to have your towing vehicle papers ( stating towing allowance), trailer papers ( seperate registered vehicle requiring its own TÜV/MoT) and papers for the vehicle on the trailer. Therefore Plod can make a quick sum of the parts.
Surely UK towing is straightforward if all the lights work? Almost impossible for them to do the sums unless you're using a Fiat 500 as the prime mover. I would be more aware of the actual performance of the rig rather than the legality as it's no fun towing cars with an underpowered/underweight vehicle.
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2017 9:13:21 GMT by düdo
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pow
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You won't be okay on a B licence there as the towing weight is more than the car weight.
I tow my Puma behind my E39 528i on a single axle trailer and only just get away with the weights with a B licence.
A manual 528i has a MGW of 2050KG, my trailer weighs 350kg, car is 950kg (track car with bits removed), sum of the trailer tyre weight loadings comes to 1380kg (no plate so use the trailer tyre load ratings).
SO my MGW of the car is 2050kg + the MGW of the trailer (1380) = 3430kg (so just under 3.5T!). I also satisfy the rule of trailer + load being less than the weight of the car (unloaded the 528i is 1480kg). It's a massive game though, I carry papers in the my glovebox showing the weight of the trailer & weight of the car and have my handbook which shows the weight of the car. Makes no difference the E39 can tow 2200kg braked.
I also make sure that the trailer is 100% up to the job, it's it (I've got running lights on mine as seeing a trailer in the dark with no load on it is hard with chromatic side and interior mirrors!), proper registration plate, mudguards etc, load tied down securely on all 4 corners.
I plan to do my +E at some point, being employed and self employed it's finding the time! But I've checked all of this out with a traffic copper (friend's wife) and I'm 100% legal there, albeit just! With +E the car can be upto 3500KG MGW and the trailer up to 3500kg MGW (train of 7250kg).
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2017 9:24:07 GMT by pow
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Nov 17, 2017 11:39:37 GMT
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You won't be okay on a B licence there as the towing weight is more than the car weight. I tow my Puma behind my E39 528i on a single axle trailer and only just get away with the weights with a B licence. A manual 528i has a MGW of 2050KG, my trailer weighs 350kg, car is 950kg (track car with bits removed), sum of the trailer tyre weight loadings comes to 1380kg (no plate so use the trailer tyre load ratings). SO my MGW of the car is 2050kg + the MGW of the trailer (1380) = 3430kg (so just under 3.5T!). I also satisfy the rule of trailer + load being less than the weight of the car (unloaded the 528i is 1480kg). It's a massive game though, I carry papers in the my glovebox showing the weight of the trailer & weight of the car and have my handbook which shows the weight of the car. Makes no difference the E39 can tow 2200kg braked. I also make sure that the trailer is 100% up to the job, it's it (I've got running lights on mine as seeing a trailer in the dark with no load on it is hard with chromatic side and interior mirrors!), proper registration plate, mudguards etc, load tied down securely on all 4 corners. I plan to do my +E at some point, being employed and self employed it's finding the time! But I've checked all of this out with a traffic copper (friend's wife) and I'm 100% legal there, albeit just! With +E the car can be upto 3500KG MGW and the trailer up to 3500kg MGW (train of 7250kg). Hi, Be careful, you're partly right. The case you present for your current set up is OK. You can tow over 3500kgs once you have your B+E category, but still staying within the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) and GTW (Gross Train Weight) of your car. If you tow over 3500kgs for business use (employed or self employed) then you will need a tacho as well. Colin
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pow
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Nov 17, 2017 11:55:06 GMT
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Cheers mate, I'm fully aware I'm close to the limit but the reality is the car is only ever one or two up, I don't carry much in the car (normally an overnight bag and a few basic tools, no full toolkit and 8 tyres!) so I'm nearer the 3/3.1 tonne mark.
This is all for pleasure, I'm in education for a job!
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2017 11:57:18 GMT by pow
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Ryannn
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Posts: 2,421
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Nov 17, 2017 12:11:15 GMT
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Do car papers in UK have max permissable tow weight? Here in D the whole trailer business is a highly developed bureaucracy : If you get pulled while towing a car, you have to have your towing vehicle papers ( stating towing allowance), trailer papers ( seperate registered vehicle requiring its own TÜV/MoT) and papers for the vehicle on the trailer. Therefore Plod can make a quick sum of the parts. Surely UK towing is straightforward if all the lights work? Almost impossible for them to do the sums unless you're using a Fiat 500 as the prime mover. I would be more aware of the actual performance of the rig rather than the legality as it's no fun towing cars with an underpowered/underweight vehicle. You can usually find the towing weights on the vin plate on the car, I wouldn’t say it’s common knowledge with Joe Public though.
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Nov 17, 2017 18:43:58 GMT
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Whilst we're on this note, I'm not sure if its another urban legend, but I heard tell of a bunch of weekend racers stopped at a motorway services with their own cars, trailers and track cars, all being done by VOSA (when thats what it was called) because it was claimed that since they raced for trophies, that was 'reward' and therefore they should have all have had tachos!
Like I say, I have no direct knowledge of this, could just be a tall story, but since DVSA(VOSA) self-fund, make up your own minds!
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Nov 17, 2017 19:44:44 GMT
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Whilst we're on this note, I'm not sure if its another urban legend, but I heard tell of a bunch of weekend racers stopped at a motorway services with their own cars, trailers and track cars, all being done by VOSA (when thats what it was called) because it was claimed that since they raced for trophies, that was 'reward' and therefore they should have all have had tachos! Like I say, I have no direct knowledge of this, could just be a tall story, but since DVSA(VOSA) self-fund, make up your own minds! Hi, When I did my last CPC module 3 or 4 yrs ago I specifically asked this question because I'd read about it on a couple of forums. The answer is No, trophy's or cash awards for track type racing or horse type events are not counted as hire and reward payments for business purposes. When DVSA started getting into their stride cracking down after being made self financing, this and using the potential weight of a plated trailer instead of the actual weight were just two of the things they were trying until stopped. Colin
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landyman1
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escapee from main dealer sweatshop,now twirl spanners for electricity industry happy days
Posts: 12
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Nov 17, 2017 19:54:05 GMT
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Towing a trailer Your trailer must display the same number plate as the car you’re towing it with. If you’re towing more than one trailer, the number plate must be fixed to the trailer at the back.
taken from the gov website.it would save us a lot of pain at work if one of the previous post above were true however.
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Last Edit: Nov 17, 2017 19:56:34 GMT by landyman1
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Nov 17, 2017 19:57:30 GMT
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Nov 17, 2017 20:16:10 GMT
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As an Ex Pat who left in the early 90's I had no idea this was an issue. Are there really ridiculously low limits like that and they really check them? Here anyone can go and buy a new F150 off the lot which is itself rated to tow up to 12,200lb's (5,534Kg's) no questions asked. Damn, I'm glad I left. What's most amusing is living here we are amazed at the pictures of people pulling huge trailers with cars on small (by US standards) cars that no one would consider for towing a car/trailer combo here.
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welshpug
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Nov 17, 2017 20:26:25 GMT
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they're not that low if you consider the cars and roads are smaller.
the lower limits came in after 1997, date of test not dob.
even so with my own combinaton its 300kg I'm missing out on, or being able to put 2 ton behind a 3.5t gvw van.
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welshpug
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Nov 17, 2017 20:30:24 GMT
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you could get an F150 here if you really wanted, but without an appropriate licence you wont tow with it, there's plenty of mostly Japanese pickups about in the uk that weigh around 2.5t gvw or more which most these days can only legally tow 1000kg or so behind them (they'll be plated to tow 3.3-3.5t typically) without taking a towing test.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:00:20 GMT
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For £200, I think i'll pass! I balk at paying £20 for 2 different trailer plates! I really can't think of a good legal use for this gadget! No good for a trailer anyway as it needs power to work! Steve
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Nov 17, 2017 21:12:48 GMT
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Defo HAS to match, lost count of the number of our drivers (I was a truck fitter for 25 yrs) who have been nicked because they had not swapped the trailer plate over when they picked up a different artic trailer. The other point is, from a point of a small trailer or car trailer etc, the trailer itself isn’t necessarily insured, just covered by virtue of the fact it’s on the back of whatever is pulling it, so what would be the point of putting a plate on that does not match the towing vehicle? www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/rules-number-platesDifferent rules for artic trailers fersure! I got it from 2 different policemen of my aquaintance. The rules stated say the plate must match the car, or if you have more than 1 trailer the plate must be on the rearmost one (this latter seems a nonsense, i'm pretty sure more than 1 trailer is illegal anyway) But it doesn't say anything about more than 1 CAR! It's to do with easily identifying the owner by a speed camera or (now) ANPR camera. If the number plate comes back to you regardless, then it's OK, that's how it was explained to me! Steve
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What kind of weird ![](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2009/11/fox_60.jpg) system doesn't register trailers on their own plate? Especially for HGVs. It'd suck like a black hole having to swap plates every time you use a different tow vehicle. Here in New Zealand trailers have their own plate and need a wof (mot) just like anything else. Must be a lot of dodgy trailers in the UK if they never get real safety checks unless you get caught.
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Now I know what the fox means.
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dazcapri
North East
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Posts: 1,057
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What kind of weird ![](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2009/11/fox_60.jpg) system doesn't register trailers on their own plate? Especially for HGVs. It'd suck like a black hole having to swap plates every time you use a different tow vehicle. Here in New Zealand trailers have their own plate and need a wof (mot) just like anything else. Must be a lot of dodgy trailers in the UK if they never get real safety checks unless you get caught. HGV trailers in the UK have an id plate fixed to them not only are they mot'ed they have to be inspected every 6 weeks or so.
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Last Edit: Nov 18, 2017 3:35:03 GMT by dazcapri
Mk3 Capri LS
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Ryannn
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Posts: 2,421
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What kind of weird ![](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/underwire/2009/11/fox_60.jpg) system doesn't register trailers on their own plate? Especially for HGVs. It'd suck like a black hole having to swap plates every time you use a different tow vehicle. Here in New Zealand trailers have their own plate and need a wof (mot) just like anything else. Must be a lot of dodgy trailers in the UK if they never get real safety checks unless you get caught. Hence why you can build your own trailer and get on with it! Lol
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