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That's really useful information, understanding why something isn't fitting can be quite frustrating and those pictures demonstrate a problem and potential solution very clearly. Look forward to seeing the theory put into practice. It's all too easy to pick a panel hammer up and start bashing things into shape when all that you are going to do is make the situation far worse with a net result of distorted panels that still don't fit correctly - I have seen it happen many times - even under the roofs of some professional bodyshops - I prefer the principle of standing back and looking for the primary cause and dealing with that to achieve the correct profiles - it takes me a little longer to achieve the initial result but then again I am not having correct my panel work with a 25mm thick layer of filler to cover the judicious hammer work. |
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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How can I possibly have missed this "Grumpy" restoration???
Fabulous work as always and though I'm not the first to say it, I still feel it can't be said often enough: thank you for showing your work so methodically. Not only is it highly entertaining, it's also informative and inspiring!
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How can I possibly have missed this "Grumpy" restoration??? Fabulous work as always and though I'm not the first to say it, I still feel it can't be said often enough: thank you for showing your work so methodically. Not only is it highly entertaining, it's also informative and inspiring! Alex - many thanks - now stop it you are making me blush  |
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I've missed this thread somehow too; duly added to the list to watch.
Some lovely thinking going into this as to "why doesn't it fit?" and the subsequent explanation of how to fix it. Educational as always Chris.
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Apr 18, 2018 17:24:01 GMT
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Also missed it.
I feel like I'm trying to pick up the plot halfway through a pilot series.
Now bookmarked.
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The thing about restoring vehicles is that you always have a break somewhere where for whatever reason, could be other things getting in the way / awaiting parts / family etc - it always happens in the trade sometime for longer periods than we would like when other projects over run and we have to undertake the juggling acts of attempting to keep clients happy - the great thing about taking detailed progress pics and then taking the time to document them to a suitable platform such has RR is that it's a fantastic reference / referral has to where you were up to before taking a break on a project - Having just re-read the last few pages of the thread I am instantly reminded / up to speed and know what to tackle next - better go and head to the workshop and blow and the dust off then - more later
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Apr 28, 2018 11:45:37 GMT
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right....i'm sat comfortably....you may continue....thank you!!
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating
'80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip
'97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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Apr 28, 2018 12:20:50 GMT
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It's been 4 hours - is it finished yet?  |
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Apr 28, 2018 13:18:23 GMT
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Apr 28, 2018 19:46:11 GMT
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I like the "cause and effect" approach to finding out where panels need adjustments to fit properly. standing back and actually having a look is a different mode than "get the hammer".....  JP |
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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Apr 28, 2018 20:44:57 GMT
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Right then - first job was to sort the play in the top door hinge - you only need 1mm of play in a hinge for it to result in drop of several mm at the upper & lower rearward edges of the door  Door removed  Offending hinge was then removed from the door  Peening on the hinge pin filed out and the reinforcing tabs had the single spot weld drilled out  Hinge pin driven out with a suitable drift but was fairly stubborn and only moved once I had applied some moderate heat to the hinge pivot  Centre hinge pivot is alloy and ok, Hinge pin is steel and carries minimal wear - it's the steel outer hinge case that has worn with elongated holes where the pin is retained  Plan is to weld the holes up and then re-drill them to just under 7mm which is the pin size - but only once I had made a centring template for the new hole  Then replicated the process with the reinforcing tabs  Hinge reassembled, hinge pin re-peened and the reinforcing tabs welded back on  Welds cleaned up and the hinge ready to be refitted - apparently new hinges / pins are not available - for the Corsair I can understand but it's the same door hinges for the Mk 1 Cortina  Door back on and the play in the hinge eliminated  Still some way to go yet though - tight on the radius section of the window frame against the door aperture  Restricted on how far back I can bring the door back against the B post and it's too tight a gap between the sill and the door on the rearward bottom edge  Packed the bottom hinge off the door with 2 x 1mm shims  Then placed a push clamp against the inner sill / bottom of the A post to correct alignment and improve the door fit  Which in turn resulted in a better fitting door to the aperture but an over wide panel gap of 7mm between the door and the front wing  With a little tweaking I managed to reduce this by bringing the wing back a few mm and now have a more acceptable 4.5mm gapping  Note the alignment references & measurements for when I remove the wing & door I will need to make some minor adjustments on the front section of the sill to close the overwide gapping - I am not unduly worried by the mismatched swage line between the sill and the front wing - I can correct this when I repair the wing  A closer fit with the bulkhead & wing radius was achieved but this still requires further improvement which again can be sorted when I undertake the wing repairs - the section marked is pin holed and requires fresh steel letting in And that's it where has the day gone ? - possibly get a few hours in tomorrow but will certainly make strides next week |
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Last Edit: Apr 28, 2018 20:54:27 GMT by Deleted
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Apr 28, 2018 23:27:01 GMT
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I have slightly worn hinge pins and was considering closing up the hinge holes to compensate for it since the hinge pins I need aren't available. I can only remove the door side of the hinge as the other side is welded to the car from the factory and I don't fancy my chances of welding them back in exactly the right place.
Thing is, if I close up the holes on the door half of the hinge to make a tighter fit with the hinge pins, will this help or likely cause me more issues with fitment, etc? I'd quite like to get rid of the door sag and it does seem to be directly related to worn pins.
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I have slightly worn hinge pins and was considering closing up the hinge holes to compensate for it since the hinge pins I need aren't available. I can only remove the door side of the hinge as the other side is welded to the car from the factory and I don't fancy my chances of welding them back in exactly the right place. Thing is, if I close up the holes on the door half of the hinge to make a tighter fit with the hinge pins, will this help or likely cause me more issues with fitment, etc? I'd quite like to get rid of the door sag and it does seem to be directly related to worn pins. Door hinges can be tricky to sort especially the type that you have that are welded to the A post has you only have adjustment at the hinge on the door side (where has on the Corsair you have adjustment either side of the hinge has both hinge faces bolt on) - The Princess is a long & heavy door so no surprises that you have wear in the hinge - you need to determine exactly where the play in the hinge is - is it on the outer case that that the pin travels through or the pin - it could be both - get someone to lift the door at the rearward edge whilst you watch for movement in the hinge - there are a few ways to sort it - you could follow the process that I have just undertaken with the Corsair, you could drill the hinge case oversize and have some bronze bushes made but this is difficult if you do not access to machine equipment / lathes etc or you could shim the bottom hinge off the door to counteract the wear in the top hinge but this is not a permanent fix - I would go for the welded option if at all possible |
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Last Edit: Apr 29, 2018 7:26:39 GMT by Deleted
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Apr 29, 2018 13:27:53 GMT
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As far as I can work out (and without wanting to derail the thread) the wear is mostly on the pins, if it is on the hinge itself it's not a lot, but there's obvious wear grooves on the pin. Replacing the pin would be my preference but at this point it's going to be a lucky find or machining a new one, a job I can't do as I haven't the tools or skills (willing to learn, that said).
Doing the door wiggle highlights it's the upper hinge pin too, there doesn't really seem to be any play in the lower pins. I also considered knocking the top hinge forwards a bit, thus canting the door to counteract the sag, but I was concerned this would make the door sag even more as it puts more stress on the very items that are causing it to sag in the first place.
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,832
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Apr 29, 2018 14:13:46 GMT
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Not that this is of much use, but MK2 cortina LH rear door hinges are the same as the RH front ones saved me a shed load of problems wonder if ford did the same with other cars?
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Apr 29, 2018 14:23:34 GMT
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And I wondered why my door fit and door to wing fit never looked great.
But then he did just beat the crpa out of them with a lump of hardwood and a big hammer, for several minutes!
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Apr 29, 2018 15:54:05 GMT
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As far as I can work out (and without wanting to derail the thread) the wear is mostly on the pins, if it is on the hinge itself it's not a lot, but there's obvious wear grooves on the pin. Replacing the pin would be my preference but at this point it's going to be a lucky find or machining a new one, a job I can't do as I haven't the tools or skills (willing to learn, that said). Doing the door wiggle highlights it's the upper hinge pin too, there doesn't really seem to be any play in the lower pins. I also considered knocking the top hinge forwards a bit, thus canting the door to counteract the sag, but I was concerned this would make the door sag even more as it puts more stress on the very items that are causing it to sag in the first place. I am wondering if a roll pin would act has a replacement for your current hinge pin set up - can you measure the diameter of the pin / pin hole to the hinge and the length of the pin and pm the details they might just be a simple & cheap solution here - no promises but you never know - probably a pic of the hinge would help too or is that already in your thread ? |
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,832
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Apr 29, 2018 16:08:18 GMT
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As far as I can work out (and without wanting to derail the thread) the wear is mostly on the pins, if it is on the hinge itself it's not a lot, but there's obvious wear grooves on the pin. Replacing the pin would be my preference but at this point it's going to be a lucky find or machining a new one, a job I can't do as I haven't the tools or skills (willing to learn, that said). Doing the door wiggle highlights it's the upper hinge pin too, there doesn't really seem to be any play in the lower pins. I also considered knocking the top hinge forwards a bit, thus canting the door to counteract the sag, but I was concerned this would make the door sag even more as it puts more stress on the very items that are causing it to sag in the first place. I am wondering if a roll pin would act has a replacement for your current hinge pin set up - can you measure the diameter of the pin / pin hole to the hinge and the length of the pin and pm the details they might just be a simple & cheap solution here - no promises but you never know - probably a pic of the hinge would help too or is that already in your thread ? Rollpins do work, better off using spiral pins, then hammer a smaller pin down the core of the spiral pin to strengthen it |
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Apr 29, 2018 16:52:26 GMT
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very precise work, Grumpy....gotta hand it to ya!
JP
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I know its spelled Norman Luxury Yacht, but its pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove!
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avg
Part of things
Posts: 168
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Apr 29, 2018 17:43:17 GMT
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Not that this is of much use, but MK2 cortina LH rear door hinges are the same as the RH front ones saved me a shed load of problems wonder if ford did the same with other cars? Corsair ones are different front to back |
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