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Before i google it, and in blissful ignorance, what the bloody hell is 'canbus' ?? If you want to see the difference, have a look at a late model Range Rover Classic and then a later version. The Classic as an nightmare of wires with fuses and relays stuffed into every available orifice. the '38, with very similar specification is sort of a halfway house and is still bad enough but has only two fuse boxes (one with relays as well) and nothing like the wirebird's nest of the former. Not saying it's a great leap forward for the DIY guy, but once you get your head around the fact that every input you as a driver has, needs to get "permission" from the main control module before it's actioned, it actually isn't that bad - at least on mine of 1995 vintage - and the diagnostics I have for it generally points you in the right direction. These days, who knows!
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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A few years back I was cheerfully playing under my car when a guy from an independent breakdown company came to see me. He'd spent hours trying to get a Vauxhall going and was stumped. Someone had told him there's a guy round the corner who messes about with old Vauxhalls - and give him his due he wasn't above asking for help.
As it happened not only did I know what was wrong, I'd also made a tool to get the sensor out because they are put in a stupid place where no normal tool will reach. 10 minutes later the car was running.
The next morning his boss rang and offered me a job.
Very tempting - but I knew working on cars for a living would kill the joy of crawling around on a wet dark driveway so I turned it down. I've never regretted that decision.
Actually I don't mind working on modern systems, you still need to know the fundamental mechanical principles and work on a process of elimination, starting with the most likely and/or cheapest first. But I have a hunch that modern cars will not survive to be classics because once the system gets obsolete keeping them on the road is not going to be viable.
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I can't be the only person that can't be bothered to work on the project car when I spend 45hrs a week fixing and servicing other people's cars. I'm a technician for BMW and as much as I love my job and working on cars, I find it such a struggle to get motivated to work on my own stuff. Wife's fiesta needs a speed sensor, my e39 daily needs work for its impending MOT as does the project audi 80 yet every weekend I spend about an hr staring at one car or another before I decide there's better things to do. 😂 Always kind of jealous of people who have the passion to spend their weekends under the bonnet when I can't even be bothered to bring tools home. Can you not stay late at work and fix your own? I do understand how you feel as all to often we sit here on the keyboard when we could be in the shed / garage.
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Yeh I could with the beemer but although I finish at 5, the workshop is locked up at 6 so not a lot of time to get anything done. I can bring the car in on Saturdays when I'm not working which is what I ended up doing when I need to. But with the Audi it's stuck at the lockup till its ready for its MOT.
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rude
Part of things
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I ended my motor trade career on modern cars a few years after spending a lot of time at a certain training centre in Slough. Modern electronics are extremely interesting but what killed the magic of it was the comparison of a Citroen C5's electronics to a vending machine.
It's ok to have all the get up and plug these things in but many times the problems were masked by other ecu's obtaining incorrect information from a sensor that was given bad info from another sensor and as said, many things could get changed before the fault disappeared, if it ever did and there was no 'getting experienced' as the technology was changing at a rate of knots. After wrestling with a motor for some time and way beyond the Thatcham book time, loosing any sort of productivity bonus you'd spent all week earning, you'd find rainwater or something had got in to the most strangest place and caused havoc. At that time, fixing my own car was only to be done if I was forced to do it for an MOT or something.
Then I had a go for a few years restoring stuff, I loved the job and got to spend a lot of time on my own car although I still had to do modern stuff in between to make ends meet. Finances killed that off, mainly when people realise that they have to chuck a tonne of cash at a rusting heap and then panic. It was a good run but the money side of things killed the dream.
I also love drawing and technical drawing but I know that if I done that as a job, the magic would go and it would end up boring me to death.
Mostly, the other things that I enjoy as hobbies don't pay great in the real world or break my back which is a shame as they all mainly involve old skool skills and sitting in a dark shed by myself impairing my health all day long... so at the age of 40 I finally realised that I needed to get a grip and a career which involved me overseeing these things whilst wearing a suit. Of course now I just want to fix my car daily but don't have the time to touch it and I'm even having to contemplate 'paying' someone else to do it, which is something I never thought I'd hear myself say but I am investing in a new man cave to recon parts and carry on building fascinating objects out of metal... that's the plan but I suspect that it'll just end up being overtaken by the kids stuff, like scooters that they don't use and bikes with never ending punctures. The best of both worlds? I can tinker or get someone else to mess it up, either way I have a choice now where as before I either couldn't afford something to tinker on, didn't want to when I had it or couldn't afford to fix it!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Tell me more about these fascinating objects!
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I ended my motor trade career on modern cars a few years after spending a lot of time at a certain training centre in Slough. Modern electronics are extremely interesting but what killed the magic of it was the comparison of a Citroen C5's electronics to a vending machine. It's ok to have all the get up and plug these things in but many times the problems were masked by other ecu's obtaining incorrect information from a sensor that was given bad info from another sensor and as said, many things could get changed before the fault disappeared, if it ever did and there was no 'getting experienced' as the technology was changing at a rate of knots. After wrestling with a motor for some time and way beyond the Thatcham book time, loosing any sort of productivity bonus you'd spent all week earning, you'd find rainwater or something had got in to the most strangest place and caused havoc. At that time, fixing my own car was only to be done if I was forced to do it for an MOT or something. When you say rainwater i can think of 2 examples straight away. Mk3 clios where they wouldnt start. Unscrew the courtesy light in the ceiling and oh look its full of rainwater, having leaked in via the aerial base above it. And what is also in the ceiling near the courtesy light? The immobiliser module. Fastforward 10 years or so and now we are getting corsas with the A10xer engine that fills the number 1 spark plug hole up with water and then shorts and blows the coil pack out. And people are spending thousands of pounds of their hard earned money on cars. don't bother.
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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It wouldn't be so bad if modern stuff was remotely interesting to drive . The only thing I can actually remember driving in the last 5 yrs was a gt86 . Plenty of times I've narrowed an issue down to a component and the only way to prove it is replacement which more often than not is hundreds of pounds . you do get the odd win now and then like a jag xf in last week with an abs issue , up on the ramp and found what looked like a screw stuck to the sensor magnet but it's usually " computer says no" type errors . I stopped spannering a couple of yrs ago and just do the mot testing so I actually enjoy getting stuff done at home
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I find some satisfaction in applying traditional knowledge to faults the diagnostics throw up and working out faults, but it's not something I do much of these days.
Fixing agricultural stuff and a bit on wagons at work is a bit different, probably as there's a reasonable amount of variation with machinery types, and there's a lot of older stuff to work with, plus fabrication work to keep it interesting.
The fact my own workshop is fairly large (a rented farm building) well lit, and with a reasonable selection of tools probably makes it more appealing than spannering in the dark on a cold driveway with few tools available.
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Best ones i had repeats of were berlingos coming in on the back of trucks as non starts with the wipers and headlamps on constant. Water dripped down by wiper mechanism, got in loom conduit and run down into cab finally settling in the ECU plug.... Fuzzed.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Did lots of Megane fuse boxes where fitters have pulled the acces panel off to change the headlight bulb in the arch liner and not fitted them back properly .
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foldy
Part of things
Posts: 710
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I got out of mechanics as a day job as not only was I losing the passion for my hobby, but it wasn't really what I was expecting as a school leaver. Pretty much servicing and brakes everyday is very monotonous.
I went on to do a mechanical engineering apprenticeship after that. Only to return to the trade! Just to get my NVQ3 mind, I thought I may as well get proof I know what I'm doing, plus it looks great on a CV along with the other stuff.
I'm now a Rehabilitation Engineering Technician, and the only thing holding me back now is the lack of a degree, which is ironic, as I'm (practically) far more capable than the engineers coming out of university.
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Rain water managed to get into under the passenger seat of a 53 plate scenic. Where the maon loom lives... that was fun! :-P
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I got out of mechanics as a day job as not only was I losing the passion for my hobby, but it wasn't really what I was expecting as a school leaver. Pretty much servicing and brakes everyday is very monotonous. I went on to do a mechanical engineering apprenticeship after that. Only to return to the trade! Just to get my NVQ3 mind, I thought I may as well get proof I know what I'm doing, plus it looks great on a CV along with the other stuff. I'm now a Rehabilitation Engineering Technician, and the only thing holding me back now is the lack of a degree, which is ironic, as I'm (practically) far more capable than the engineers coming out of university. The need for a degree in everythjng really bugs me! In academic proffessions fair enough, but skilled technical proffessions its the skills, and experience, tgat should matter rather than a bit of paper. If i were hiring for a technical job, i wpuld want someone applying to actually showcase their skills for me! Cook, draw,explain in detail whatever! rather than be told,effectively by letter that they can do the job!
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2017 9:53:34 GMT by s1105117
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foldy
Part of things
Posts: 710
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I got out of mechanics as a day job as not only was I losing the passion for my hobby, but it wasn't really what I was expecting as a school leaver. Pretty much servicing and brakes everyday is very monotonous. I went on to do a mechanical engineering apprenticeship after that. Only to return to the trade! Just to get my NVQ3 mind, I thought I may as well get proof I know what I'm doing, plus it looks great on a CV along with the other stuff. I'm now a Rehabilitation Engineering Technician, and the only thing holding me back now is the lack of a degree, which is ironic, as I'm (practically) far more capable than the engineers coming out of university. The need for a degree in everythjng really bugs me! In academic proffessions fair enough, but skilled technical proffessions its the skills, and experience, tgat should matter rather than a bit of paper. If i were hiring for a technical job, i wpuld want someone applying to acyually showcase there skills for me! Cook, draw,e plain whatever rather than be told by metter that they can do the job 10 years ago, I would've had grandfather rights, but it's all changed. Which is actually a real issue, because there isn't enough demand so the courses rarely go ahead! I agree with demonstrating real world skills. When I got this job, that's exactly how the conducted the interview. But I also understand the need for a better clinical knowledge, I just disagree that a degree is necessary.
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Apr 15, 2017 19:28:52 GMT
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I was in the motor trade for 23 years so I know how you feel But now I'm a lorry driver working 4 on 4 off It's the best job move I've done Now I really injoy working on my cars and I have more time to do it as well
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Apr 16, 2017 11:48:17 GMT
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It's a requirement of plc companies to have the necessary paperwork in place to ensure operative 'x' is competent and capable of carrying out the duties they are employed to do, so it was explained to me once. Experience just reinforces their position...most of the time. You can get 'bad experience'. The days of getting a job because you've done it for years are fading fast, in most industries. A written proof by a recognised institute for the correct order of doing things, competently and safely is what paperwork provides. Someone who has done a particular job for years and has become complacent can be as bad as someone being inexperienced doing the same job i.e; 'na I don't need to do that, they never fail... ' vs 'I didn't know I needed to do that'. In the meantime someone has died from whatever failing. Extreme? But why would anyone take the chance and risk leaving themselves open to all the enquiries, fines and law suits? Just because 'Dave' has done it for 30 years doesn't mean he's doing it right. What it means is that Dave has been winging it for 30 years. With a few years of certs behind the employee, if the failure was to occur the employer has done all they can do to eliminate poor practice.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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