fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 16, 2017 21:40:09 GMT
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Oh granted some cars need stuff, some don't. But I deliberately left out servicing for that very reason, servicing costs are very specific things and are to be expected and factored in when you buy a car, there's nothing "chance" about that - you know what you are getting in to.
But you cannot factor in failures, in my case the wishbone was just wear, the brakes were (first time) the pads slipping out of the caliper (don't ask how, I don't know!) and the second lot were my discs were just taking the peepee, so did discs and pads together. Stuff like that aren't regular service items like cam belts, valve clearances... Insurance the same, you shop around, you know what that car costs to insure, another car the same will be the same, a different car is different... You factor that in to you purchase choice. Tax, same again. You can, with a good degree of certainty, predict and mitigate for those costs. The only things you cannot are purchase price, accessories (cos you dunno what daft curse word you will impulse buy), and faults.
If I factor in the rest of my costs, we have 3 fluid & filter services at £70 a time for the bits, 1 cam belt change and service at about £280 if memory serves, no idea how many tyres cos I use part worn danger-tyres from a local place at £10 a throw (because I'm a cheap tight fisted git (read: got made redundant, ended up with a job paying 1/3 of my last one, only just keeping my head above water and trying to sort my Volksrod at the same time) - though used to use decent new tyres at about £180 a piece), aaannnd... Whatever the tax is (£200 and something? I don't remember, it's the old tax bracket system anyway) and the insurance which comes in at the princely sum of about £300 a year fully comp.
So still cheap motoring, cos I researched, and bought clever... Actually that's total bullshirt, I was about to buy a REAL lovely Porka 944 to replace my 90's 'Rocco, but then the ex wife (who I was on good terms with at the time) asked to borrow some cash to buy herself a car cos she has just blown up the car I gave her when we split (how many times??? CHANGE THE BLOODY CAM BELT!!!) so lent her some of my pot and then was nipping to the tip, drove past the VRS, did a loop round, had a look at it and bought it there and then. Just happened to have picked a gem! Saved me 2 more tip runs on day one with the big boot, it did! LOL
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Last Edit: Mar 16, 2017 21:40:53 GMT by fad
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79cord
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,611
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Speaking of smokers... I never got, how people can literally burn money to consume the smoke!?. It is sad to see money & effort expended upon completely unsalvageable cars without a straight or rust-free panel etc. When they are common (or boring) enough for good deserving examples to be saved instead, thinking of all the nice cars in wreckers for their parts to be put upon absolute junkers. [Was also sad to recently see an add for a rare & desirable car in good condition - Lancia Beta HPE volumex- offering to sell the the car -or its engine separately.]
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Speaking of smokers... I never got, how people can literally burn money to consume the smoke!?. It is sad to see money & effort expended upon completely unsalvageable cars without a straight or rust-free panel etc. When they are common (or boring) enough for good deserving examples to be saved instead, thinking of all the nice cars in wreckers for their parts to be put upon absolute junkers. [Was also sad to recently see an add for a rare & desirable car in good condition - Lancia Beta HPE volumex- offering to sell the the car -or its engine separately.] Sad, perhaps. But thats how commerce works.
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Curtis
Part of things
Posts: 622
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£1750 IS200, actually worth closer to £1500 in hindsight. I stopped counting after mods and several crashes (all while I was away from the car at work) had ran me nearly 5 times that.
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Driving: Shitbox Honda S-MX
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Me Me Me! Over the last 7 years, I have bought, built sold & nearly scrapped loads of Retro's as most of you know. I made money on some, lost lots on others. My current Retro Ride is a 1996 E320 Mercedes. Worth IMHO £750? Already owes me £1500 and I haven't had it barely a Month! I will start a thread on it shortly.
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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Mar 17, 2017 10:56:56 GMT
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economics or budgeting doesnt come into my purchase strategy at all. i just buy the car if i can afford it, restore it if i can afford it, it costs whatever it costs. for the love of cars, not profit ! Precisely why I do this as well. " Oooh , I bet thats worth a lot of money now " OR " I bet that costs a lot to fix " doesn't even come into it.
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Mar 17, 2017 11:05:15 GMT
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Agree with the above - However, my brother in law who once loved tinkering etc, has gone over to the dark side - Get this... Last Jan, he handed £5000 over to the local Nissan Main Dealer (No relation to Nelson Mandela) and in return he got the keys to a spanking new X Trail Petrol Manual. (1.6 engine!) After 2 weeks, he decided he would prefer an Auto so gave them a further £750 to swap it over. He then has to pay £275 per month until January 2019 - at this point he will have given them £15650! He then has to decide whether to hand the thing back and owe nothing (But get nothing back!) or get a loan or finance for a further £12,750 so that he would then own it! HOWEVER, if when he gets to make that decision, he has put more than 24k on the car - he has to pay £0.50p per mile over that if he wants to hand it back.... and he had the cheek to call me nutty for paying £5750 cash for my Forester (Which I sold 8 months later for £5000) ME MAD? Err....
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-( 10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily 03 Import Forester STi - Sold 98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-( 99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold 02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX 88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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kc14
Kinda New
Posts: 9
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Mar 17, 2017 11:10:01 GMT
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You also have to factor in that modern cars depreciate. Normally it seems by about £1k per year . So running an older car that's finished depreciating, or even going up in value can save you money, even if you have to spend a bit of cash keeping it going. Plus of course modern cars also break down and need work, normally expensively if they're out of warranty... This is a big aspect that most of us are missing here - buy new and you can probably avoid repairs and unforeseen issues - but you shoulder a monthly payment (+ interest) or the huge depreciation... Buy old/retro and you hopefully are buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve and then it's pretty much down to luck/your ability to ensure you're not buying a complete dog/appetite for financial pain as to the size of the subsequent repair bills that come. Plus I love it as you get the chance to drive around in something I'd never have been able to stump up for brand new.
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2002 BMW E39 Blue 530i MSport - SOLD 2000 Volvo V70 2.5D 1996 BMW E34 520i - Sold
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Zotez
Part of things
Posts: 413
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Mar 17, 2017 11:10:51 GMT
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You can definitely do retro motoring on the cheap.
My daily driver (1989 Bluebird Hatch) cost me less than a cheap night out, all the parts to service it come to about £75, all I've really spent out on is new brake pads and an exhaust - it's "cool" enough to get interest wherever I take it but my total cost has been less than a single monthly payment on most modern cars.
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miaspa
Part of things
Posts: 829
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Mar 17, 2017 12:52:33 GMT
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My daily cost me £1,400 and another £900 in maintenance and servicing it it just ticked past 66,000 miles at the weekend. That's 31,000 miles in 20 months and I average 44mpg with ease.
The Audi A5 it's parked up next to today has had more spent on tyres over the same period covering slightly less miles, than all my maintenance costs.
If I can eck out another year from it I'll be well chuffed.
I'd rather spend my money some old price of tat that may only work 3 weeks outa 52, that you spend ages trying to find a stupid part or in my case more tat to put on it. Thats what I enjoy, to be honest is a 1991 Polo saloon, lowered 60mm with a 1.4 engine, dressed up as a pastiche of 1970's ski team wagon going to be financially rewarding? I can answer that myself "nope".
Will it be a better car than something far newer I could pick up for the money I have spent. I very much doubt it.
I'm enjoying doing it and when it all goes pear shaped and it looks wibblepoo and the engine pops. It doesn't matter really, I can go on to my next stupid plan. All it's cost me is the same as those tyres the A5 has used in the last 29,000 miles.
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Found my flashing Pao again.
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Mar 17, 2017 12:54:43 GMT
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I think anyone who has a passion for cars is in the same boat
I am for one
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Mar 17, 2017 13:51:36 GMT
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I bought an ex demonstrator BMW 320D M Sport in late 2015 which if I had bought it on finance, would have been £450 a month. After only a few months I sold it, as the stop/start was annoying, and the ride was so bad, it jolted you going over the slightest pothole. Now consider that £450 monthly payment. For less than that, I now own an Alfa GTV Lusso - outright! no extra finance costs, no depreciation, nothing but repairs and servicing. If it only lasted me a month, I'd still be quids in. Plus I'd get money back for the parts/scrap. Only thing I've needed - a new battery, and the rear brakes freeing off
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 17, 2017 13:56:14 GMT
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Now I'm going to chime in about my "other" car.
It's a VW Beetle. Or was.
I bought it for £3k5. It was rotten as a pear. I have driven it three times in the time I have owned it (about 4 years).
It has had a roof chop, oval rear screen grafted in, rear quarters extended, doors extended (to cover running board mounts), it has had the quarterlights retained through the roof chop, a 12" chassis extension, discs conversion for the rear, a full rewire, wheels custom made (banded and smoothed rears, narrowed smoothed fronts), custom made glass, a turbocharger, a rebuild for the turbocharger, a delorto carb, uprated heads, dual valve springs, forged pistons, rods and crank. Full flow oil, a complete chassis restoration including replacement framehead, floor pans and tunnel bottom. Handbrake relocated (to make way for a bench seat), new sill bottoms, various sill repairs, a new napoleoans hat (bulkhead support), framehead bottom plate, a donor chassis bought and subsequently scrapped, repro floorpans that were scrapped and OE ones bought instead, it has had machine work done on the crank when it threw the flywheel off after a detonation, replacement flywheel, clutch, new headlights, tail lights, indicators, custom made fuel tank (the keg you see in my avatar), sway away adjusters fitted to the beam, dropped spindles, new shocks, full respray, wideband O2 sensor with readout, and the list left to do stands at: Make an interior Make a new ragtop Complete the welding Respray it again Rewire it again Set the engine up properly Make new gearbox cradle for a 2.5" transmission lift Make new gearshift Hell knows what else.
All in all, the car stands me well in excess of £10k now. Once "finished" if there is such a thing, she will be around about £15k+.
Done for love and as a hobby, no other reason. I will never, ever recoup even CLOSE to that figure were I to sell it. But at least I get to drive around knowing that absolutely no one has one like mine. Eventually. When I get to drive the damn thing... Aint even driven it properly on boost yet (I've gone about 50 yards on boost, the rest was no boost).
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100% Too Far In ThreadMercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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Mar 17, 2017 18:24:09 GMT
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Agree with the above - However, my brother in law who once loved tinkering etc, has gone over to the dark side - Get this... Last Jan, he handed £5000 over to the local Nissan Main Dealer (No relation to Nelson Mandela) and in return he got the keys to a spanking new X Trail Petrol Manual. (1.6 engine!) After 2 weeks, he decided he would prefer an Auto so gave them a further £750 to swap it over. He then has to pay £275 per month until January 2019 - at this point he will have given them £15650! He then has to decide whether to hand the thing back and owe nothing (But get nothing back!) or get a loan or finance for a further £12,750 so that he would then own it! HOWEVER, if when he gets to make that decision, he has put more than 24k on the car - he has to pay £0.50p per mile over that if he wants to hand it back.... and he had the cheek to call me nutty for paying £5750 cash for my Forester (Which I sold 8 months later for £5000) ME MAD? Err.... This^^^^^^ I've had my w202 merc seven years the neighbours and work colleagues all rib me about it and about the fact it never has a speck of dirt on it But all those people have been financed up to the hilt with modern rubbish that they lose fortunes on in depreciation I paid £1175 for my merc and just had routine servicing tyres and a water pump that's it I own it I love it and I have no interest in any new car and never will do,, the wife now drives a modern fiesta thing doesn't interest me one bit
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Fraud owners club member 2003 W211 Mercedes E class 1998 ex bt fiesta van
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Mar 17, 2017 18:54:28 GMT
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Having run my 305 van for the last 16/18 years, don't remember what year I bought it, I worked out it has cost on average approx £600 a year. Insurance, mot's, tax, servicing and repairs. Not including fuel. Initial purchase price of 400 eurii, and it has appreciated by about £50 per year. If I had stayed in Europe it would have appreciated by £100 per year. The last year I was in Portugal, insurance was 134 eurii, including 12 months green card and Europe wide breakdown and rescue. Road tax, 27 eurii per year, mot 27 yoois. Its since I've been back from 2010 that expenses have more than doubled. I still think its worth it, coz its practical and I love it.
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Mar 17, 2017 22:35:42 GMT
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Its since I've been back from 2010 that expenses have more than doubled. Odd how location skews things. Mine should be eligible for the 5% thread. But it's not, given what they draw here. It shouldn't be eligible for the 1% thread. But it is, as there's hardly any. It should be eligible for this thread. But it's not. Had I been in the UK then what I have spent so far would see it happily in the 100% bracket. But then it wouldn't, as I'd have been able to pick bits up at 50-60% less than I have to pay, although I probably would be getting close now. Also given the fact that I paid around 5 times its UK value, it'll be a while yet before I hit the 100%. I hope!
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Last Edit: Mar 17, 2017 22:36:19 GMT by georgeb
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Mar 17, 2017 23:43:28 GMT
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The Vitesse 'owes' me at least three times its initial cost, and it's in need of a load more now due to being knackered, but I couldn't put a value on the smiles the old girl has given me over the years!
The 400e has had a load spent on it too, but we're still well into positive equity thanks to rising prices of classic light commercials.
As for my retro ish dailys, if I can run a car at loss of £200 a year (purchase cost - resale price) disregarding ruining costs, then I consider it a total win. Especially when compared against the muppets conned into modern financed shitboxes which seem to be nothing but a money pit to my eyes.
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logicaluk
Posted a lot
Every days a school day round here
Posts: 1,319
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My sons first car wich i bought and fixed for him. 2000 Skoda fabia 1.4 mpi (propper old skool skoda engine) no rot £80 on gumtree 1/2 mile from home. Air and fuel filters Plugs Steering rack and fluid 3l trackrod ends Arb bushes Rear wheel bearing Timing chain Waterpump Disks and pads Drums and shoes and a wheel cyl Handbrake cables Radiator and coolent 2x oil, filter and flush £600
5 new tyers £165
Got it througn its first mot with us
2 front road springs and ball bearings £70
Head gasket set with bolts Skim Oil, filter and flush £130
Steering angle sensor wing mirror Oil filler cap £20 from scrappy
Hopefully will get it through its mot next month.
Total £1065 inc buying the car
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Last Edit: Mar 18, 2017 9:32:53 GMT by logicaluk
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I'm not going to add it up, but I've gone past the 20x mark with my zx, not counting maintenance.
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Last Edit: Mar 18, 2017 9:31:05 GMT by welshpug
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Mar 18, 2017 15:35:10 GMT
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Just reading this thread I've been thinking that I've only had two cars that had to be paid off on the never never and even these weren't for massive amounts. I've friends who are continually in a cycle of deals for new cars which they never own and always talking about what a great deal they got from this or that garage. My wife started muttering about our friend's new Golf which was only £30 a yaer road tax. When I mentioned that our car cost about three of their monthly payments she changed her mind. I do change my cars fairly frequently as I get bored or just take a fancy for something else. If I was locked into a three year deal it would drive me nuts. I'll stick with my sub 1k cars,with the odd dearer one, as it keeps things interesting.
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