heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Mar 15, 2017 11:14:46 GMT
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I like how much effort everyone's putting in to telling the OP that his jack's not dangerous, it's just his technique... I have to say, I had a trolley jack that tried to kill me every time I went near the thing, using the appropriate handle, and being skilled in handle-twisting, in both directions (That's not a euphemism...).
Some cheap jacks are absolute tripe, and will drop a car just as effectively onto an arm holding the jack's own little silly handle as onto an arm holding a screwdriver. I had a pair of axle stands from screwfix that a weld split on, just as I rolled out from under the car. Nothing moving, no weight transfers, they were just curse word, and I nearly snuffed it due to being a cheap ass who bought junk.
So how about we stop haranguing the poor guy as if it's his fault that his jack's curse word, and give him the benefit of our experience with actual useful non-squashy-death-splatting jacks?
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vitessetony
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,055
Club RR Member Number: 114
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Mar 15, 2017 11:59:07 GMT
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I like how much effort everyone's putting in to telling the OP that his jack's not dangerous, it's just his technique... I have to say, I had a trolley jack that tried to kill me every time I went near the thing, using the appropriate handle, and being skilled in handle-twisting, in both directions (That's not a euphemism...). Some cheap jacks are absolute tripe, and will drop a car just as effectively onto an arm holding the jack's own little silly handle as onto an arm holding a screwdriver. I had a pair of axle stands from screwfix that a weld split on, just as I rolled out from under the car. Nothing moving, no weight transfers, they were just curse word, and I nearly snuffed it due to being a cheap ass who bought junk. So how about we stop haranguing the poor guy as if it's his fault that his jack's curse word, and give him the benefit of our experience with actual useful non-squashy-death-splatting jacks? Well, because to be fair it could just be his technique and the jack might be ok for him to use? If that is the case then all the people, myself included, who as far as I can see are trying to be helpful not 'haranguing' might just have saved the op some money. If not then indeed he would be better off buying another jack, especially if it is unsafe, which if it works how the op says it does seems so. We all had to learn everything we know didn't we? I mean literally everything. Sometimes advice is good sometimes bad, but it is only that, advice. Now with that said I want to give a little love back in the form of this Plymouth Belvedere....... Be bodacious to each other dudes
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Mar 15, 2017 15:12:21 GMT
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I like how much effort everyone's putting in to telling the OP that his jack's not dangerous, it's just his technique... I have to say, I had a trolley jack that tried to kill me every time I went near the thing, using the appropriate handle, and being skilled in handle-twisting, in both directions (That's not a euphemism...). Some cheap jacks are absolute tripe, and will drop a car just as effectively onto an arm holding the jack's own little silly handle as onto an arm holding a screwdriver. I had a pair of axle stands from screwfix that a weld split on, just as I rolled out from under the car. Nothing moving, no weight transfers, they were just curse word, and I nearly snuffed it due to being a cheap ass who bought junk. So how about we stop haranguing the poor guy as if it's his fault that his jack's curse word, and give him the benefit of our experience with actual useful non-squashy-death-splatting jacks? A death jack and axle stands that collapsed? Dude, Jesus hates you and wants you dead.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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Mar 15, 2017 15:28:52 GMT
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WHY THE HELL ARE YOU USING A SCREWDRIVER!! Sort that out, if the handle isnt the right one (as mentioned above there should be a pin in it) then get a handle, make a handle, or stop using the jack. Thats an accident waiting to happen, especially as you are still inexperienced. ^ ^ ^ This. I'm astonished you havent already been killed actually, what you are doing is deadly. A Handle/bar will give you greater control of how tight you do up and undo to control the descent. My jack is a cheapy chinese crappo thing that does the job with no frills. It does come down pretty quickly no matter how I try but I'm never under the car when it does, which is the whole point, right?
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Mar 15, 2017 17:52:34 GMT
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I can't believe it's such a bad thing TBH, I've been using screwdrivers and pliers to drop jacks for years...
I'm not dead yet... but I have recently bought my first ever new jack so I actually have the matching handle lol.
The skill is getting a jack which leaks, you never need to let them down!
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Mar 15, 2017 18:06:44 GMT
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I have the same jack as you Seb, and yes it does go down quickly, to the extent where several people who've used it have commented about it. And now I usually warn people about it when they're using it for the first time.
But it's not dangerous, with the right technique it can be lowered very slowly and in a controlled manner. As others have said above I wouldn't use a screwdriver, use the handle that came with the jack, it has the bar in the end to engage with the slot on the lowering screw.
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96 Peugeot 405 Executive DTurbo Estate 89 Mazda Eunos Roadster 88 Citroen BX 16RS Previously Owned: 93 Subaru MV96 Disco 300TDI 72 LR SIII 109" Prima96 Xantia Activa 92 AX GTI 97 ZX Temptation 88 205 XS
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Mar 15, 2017 18:29:00 GMT
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I have the same jack as you Seb, and yes it does go down quickly, to the extent where several people who've used it have commented about it. And now I usually warn people about it when they're using it for the first time. But it's not dangerous, with the right technique it can be lowered very slowly and in a controlled manner. As others have said above I wouldn't use a screwdriver, use the handle that came with the jack, it has the bar in the end to engage with the slot on the lowering screw. Oh right. I'm going to be honest I've wanted to use the handle but I can't seem to understand how it operates. I actually phoned up Machinemart when I first got it, and the gentleman was a little gruff, but he didn't make it sound like the handle could operate the lowering function of the jack. When I "lower" the car, I release the valve as little as I can, and then as quickly as I can jerk it back to slow down the fall. By this point the car is usually pretty low down so I can then just let it go back on wheels without a problem (if I'm not attempting to lower it onto stands). So that still begs the question, how does this damn thing work? So I pop in the handle with that sticky-outy thing, and then what sorry? Hopefully I don't need a new jack, since I'm not one for spending my pennies!
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I have a Jaguar XJS - RARRGHH! She is called Lily, and she is my best friend! goo.gl/bT3ASP <-- video of her
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awoo
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,505
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Mar 15, 2017 19:08:10 GMT
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use the bar instead of the screwdriver.
theres nothing more to it.
just don't ever use a screwdriver as you're going to hurt yourself soon
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Mar 15, 2017 20:10:49 GMT
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It gets better seb... One day you'll need to use a dodgy jack to release another dodgy jack that got locked under the car. I've had them twist handle things drop a motor in split seconds too, they were clarke. I've also had jacks sink into tarmac rather than lifting the motor and i have to virtually lift my car by myself before i can even think about the jack sliding under via my foot... And then there are those dudes who stuff the sills up... In fact, jacks are pretty annoying. Do like a good bottle jack though.
... An axle stand weld snap?! Jesus man, that must have been cheap, lucky escape if you ask me, i hope you got some cable ties and masking tape around it before getting back under there!
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi 1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack 2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8 2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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Mar 15, 2017 22:20:30 GMT
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if the handle is a tube, could drill it at the handle end so you can slip a screw driver or rod through the holes, T bar style or box spanner style. longer the screw driver/rod, the more "resolution" you have in order to make small movements. i had a little hilka 1.5tonne jack which was a bit like the original post, drop of oil on the thread of the locking valve helps. 80% of the force required to undo a threaded fixing is friction ! recvently i got a 3 tonne halfords pro in the sales (generic one probably rebadged by a thousand companies) tube is bigger and undoes more gently, slower p.s congrats on getting to 2 pages on what looks to be turning into another seb bashing / internet white night escapade
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Last Edit: Mar 15, 2017 22:26:00 GMT by darrenh
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Mar 16, 2017 11:10:15 GMT
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Oh right. I'm going to be honest I've wanted to use the handle but I can't seem to understand how it operates. I actually phoned up Machinemart when I first got it, and the gentleman was a little gruff, but he didn't make it sound like the handle could operate the lowering function of the jack. When I "lower" the car, I release the valve as little as I can, and then as quickly as I can jerk it back to slow down the fall. By this point the car is usually pretty low down so I can then just let it go back on wheels without a problem (if I'm not attempting to lower it onto stands). So that still begs the question, how does this damn thing work? So I pop in the handle with that sticky-outy thing, and then what sorry? Hopefully I don't need a new jack, since I'm not one for spending my pennies! Mine is a couple of years old now, so the mechanism may have changed, but here's how mine works. Slot in the jack for putting the handle in: Cross bar in the end of the handle:
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96 Peugeot 405 Executive DTurbo Estate 89 Mazda Eunos Roadster 88 Citroen BX 16RS Previously Owned: 93 Subaru MV96 Disco 300TDI 72 LR SIII 109" Prima96 Xantia Activa 92 AX GTI 97 ZX Temptation 88 205 XS
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Mar 18, 2017 10:47:07 GMT
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If it isn't as pictured above (though I don't think I've seen one that isn't), take a pic of the inside of the end of handle without the grip and the release screw and post them up and all will be explained.
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Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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Mar 18, 2017 11:41:32 GMT
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if a screwdriver works it will be the one pictured above, using the tube to turn it has a finer degree of control than a screwdriver.
learning "the feel" is a massive part of working on anything mechanical, you can feel when a bolt is tight enough, too tight or a spanner will slip, how far to open a tap or a bleed nipple, or an union just enough to get thinks moving.
some people will take a while to get it, breaking thinks stripping threads etc, I've come across a few that just don't learn though...
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Mar 18, 2017 12:57:36 GMT
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I've never seen a "trolley" jack like that, all the ones for sale in the US have the release incorporated into the handle. I have a bottle jack like that and it's no joke when it releases, I'd keep an eye out for a handle release jack since it just makes it easier and safer.
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Mar 18, 2017 13:11:20 GMT
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^this. And I prefer to have a BIG one, to lift the car up high and put it under some solid tall axle stands. So you can actually work under the car instead of being squished under it like a canned anchovy, hardly able to do anything... Shameless thread high-jack (see what I did here?); retrorides.proboards.com/thread/166281/dws-obsession-vintage-trolley-jacksYou can actually reach an axle to lift the car - and still be out of reach of the car when lifting it up or releasing it back on the ground. Bad things can happen - it's never wise to be under a car that's only supported by a pint of hydraulic oil.... For many years I worked with one of those tiny trolley jack that everyone seems to have. They'r compact, they'r cheap, they work. But... Once I got my first proper jack I entered a different world! I'm not recommending to buy a vintage working horse. But I recommend to go big. If you plan do keep doing serious work to cars in the future, this is an investment that will pay out. It's the next best thing to owning a lift. Cheers, Jan
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Mar 18, 2017 17:16:57 GMT
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I have had a few of those 2 tonne cheapies over the years, first thing I always did was to stand it up on its front end, remove the release valve and weld a big thick washer into the slot. Didn't make them fool proof, but helped with control as the washer was integral and had no play like a handle or screwdriver ect
Dave
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stevek
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 728
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Mar 19, 2017 23:45:44 GMT
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I have the exact same model as the one your having trouble with. It behaves about the same as any other jack with this type of release mechanism that I have used (probably 4 or 5 different ones). I get where your coming from and think they are a bit sensitive but I don't find it causes me too much trouble, you just have to tweak it gently. I have never tried with a screwdriver I just use the handle. On the other hand if you want to upgrade I agree that the ones with the gears at the bottom of the handle are a bit easier to control but it's not a night and day difference just a bit nicer.
-Steve-
PS. I'm sure there are other much nicer jacks than our one, they are a fairly cheap one after all, but unless yours is faulty is should be safe to use.
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Last Edit: Mar 19, 2017 23:52:51 GMT by stevek
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eternaloptimist
Posted a lot
Too many projects, not enough time or space...
Posts: 2,578
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Seb, talk to us - how are you getting on?
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XC70, VW split screen crew cab, Standard Ten
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Mar 20, 2017 12:38:53 GMT
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Sorry folks I was away at the weekend, and derailing the thread a bit ... it was to go see this ... But back on topic, I understand what it is I was doing wrong. I don't have the luxury of buying 'high-end' trolley jacks so I think I'll stick to using this one, albeit using the instructions from the diagram above. That said if it does indeed remain scary I might do a change to something more manageable, and perhaps something with a bit more height (the axle stands can't even be raised by 1 notch with maximum elevation). I know it's a long wait but I don't have access to my trolley jack for a while annoyingly. Sorry I blew my chance on testing it. At least I know I was doing something wrong and there is a better way that works for everyone else. Again I'm sorry: it was a hectic weekend, though.
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I have a Jaguar XJS - RARRGHH! She is called Lily, and she is my best friend! goo.gl/bT3ASP <-- video of her
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Mar 21, 2017 11:26:58 GMT
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Info for SEB (& other XJS folk) There's an epsisode of TV show Wheeler Dealers coming up in a few days, where they restore an XJS.see Thursday 23rd 2pm on Quest (it looks like a 2-part show so more after 2pm / in the next couple of days) No comments needed about the show but this should give folk a look at what's under these cars, and what to expect when you start to work on them. Enjoy, hope you find it educational!
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