Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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Well, here we are. As mentioned in my other thread retrorides.proboards.com/thread/182811/rebels-vehicular-ramblings, I've decided to split it up so that each car has its own thread. This in theory should make it easier to reduce the confusion about which car is getting what done to it etc. In my vehicular rambling thread has a very brief mention of work to be completed on the garden as well as the erection ( oo'er missus ) of a new shed. When I bought my house it already had a garage which was big enough to fit an American car, the previous owner had built it himself and to make sure his project would fit, he drew the plans on the floor and constructed the garage around them! He left a two foot walkway down the side furthest away from the house to provide access to two wooden sheds behind the garage where he kept his dogs. When I moved in, I demolished the two sheds due to their deplorable condition. I also removed the chicken wire fence that he had used to separate the two sheds from the rest of the garden. Its a shame that he built the garage the way he did though, if I'd built it, it would have been bigger! It wouldn't have had a two foot walkway down the far side, so it would have been two foot wider. It would also have been longer, approx twenty foot longer, making the total garage space approx 40ft x 12ft. He didn't build it my way though, so I was left with a garage that's approx 20ft x 12ft with a useless two foot walkway down one side and about 20ft of open cocncrete behind it. I had thought of using the space behind the garage by building a framework and putting a roof over the frame. Followed by knocking the rear wall out of the garage, thereby giving me a forty foot space to work in. I even went as far as putting up some posts and making some steel roof supports. But, not being an engineer and with enthusiasm taking over from common sense, I never gave any thoughts to the weight of the roof or to the safety of anyone under it when it collapsed. Which, obviously, it would have done, probably quite quickly! So that idea was scrapped and the empty space became a dumping ground for rubbish ( thrown over the fence by passers-by late at night ) and overgrown with weeds. Fast forward to early last year and a decision was made to clear the space and build a shed. Now, as luck would have it, the deeds to my house show that the space behind the garage is occupied by two sheds. Checking the details provided the info that if the existing sheds were in poor condition, I could remove them and replace them with one larger shed as long as the total size was equal, without additional planning permission. I decided on a metal ( less chance of setting it on fire! ) shed / garage with barn doors that would be a perfect fit, second hand of course, and was about to hit " buy it now " on one I'd found on the bay of fleas when I suddenly realised that once built the barn doors wouldn't be able to open, rendering it useless. The search continued and late last year I eventually found another one, again, second hand and this time only about ten miles away and for less than the previous barn door version. This one however had an up and over door, perfect! A quick phone call and twenty minutes later I'm standing in the owners garden looking at a pile of parts that had already been dismantled. He assured me that all the parts were there and that as it was too big to fit in my Toyota Surf ( it's 12ft x 24ft ) he would kindly deliver it for me as well. The next night, he delivered it as agreed. It was dark, very cold, raining and very windy. It was left in a pile in the garden until the following day. This is what the empty space looked like before it was cleared of weeds and rubbish, visible on the upper left of the pic, And this is what it currently looks like
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Bookmarked! I love a man cave build thread
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,478
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+1 ...if only as I have no way of doing the same and am condemned to leasing a storage box type single car garage. But a man can dream right?
Will follow with interest.
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andy-v
Part of things
i like cookies :D
Posts: 358
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bookmarked too loads of pics as you go please
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sridgett
Part of things
the only way is Dagenham
Posts: 434
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This is gonna be good.
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Mk3 capri, escort xr3i, mk2 fiesta,mk5 escort rs2000
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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Thanks for the book marks guys. Hopefully I can keep you all entertained and make the build enjoyable. Eurogranada - I'm worse off than you at the moment, even though I have a garage already, none of my cars will fit, mainly due to all the usual stuff that has nowhere else to live. I'm hoping that this build will help solve that problem though. The idea of building another shed behind my garage, in theory, was going to be that the up and over door would line up exactly with the window frame at the back of my garage. Then I could take the window out, remove the wall under the window and be able to go straight from the garage into the shed. Effectively giving me my roughly 40ft garage that I would have built to start with. But no, for two reasons. If I line up the shed door with the garage window, it means I'll have to have that annoying 2ft walkway continue all the way to the back of the garden. I don't like and don't want that. Also, Mrs Rebel wanted the extra space that I would have used for something called a garden, even though we have one of them at the front of the house as well. So, the new shed will be built next to the boundary fence which will leave the additional 2ft to be used for this garden type thing. When the shed was delivered it obviously came with no instructions for me to ignore as I built it, a quick Google provided a very detailed and very comprehensive set though. All good to go then. A quick read through them and apparently all the parts have numbers stamped on them, even better! Just like a man sized meccano set! After moving the parts to their current position while checking for part numbers, I found the parts for the frame work and discovered that my available space isn't as big as I thought it was. The 12ft width isn't a problem but the 24ft length is, measuring the space reveals that it's only 20ft! curse word! Instead of a supposedly straight forward meccano session, what your all going to read about is how to cut ( yeah, I know ) 4ft of material out of the frame work and still make it look like it does in the instructions when finished, needless to say I'm really looking forward to building myself now. anyhoo, as it's far too cold to be playing with cars at the moment, I thought I'd crack on with the shed. Today though the weather said no to that idea. We had rain, hail, sleet and more hail. However, I did find out the other day that " all the parts being there " means most of the parts should be there, great! I had already been told that there would be some nuts and bolts missing, no problem there. Measured the bolts and according to the instructions, there should be 150 of them. The bay of fleas provided all 150 from a local engineer who had retired and was having a clear out. The part that's missing is a small bracket that's used to join to lengths of frame together while leaving a suitable gap for one of the uprights to attach to. No problem, if it's missing, I'll just make one. After finding a suitable sized piece of scrap steel, I spent some time making a mirror image of the one on the opposite side, This is the one that I do have And this is the the one I made, the edge isn't straight, but it's not important as long as all the holes line up This is the two together
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Last Edit: Feb 10, 2017 5:14:37 GMT by Rebel
1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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I haven't mentioned the foundation for the shed yet, well I say foundation but what I actually mean is concrete slab. The guy that I bought the house off was an avid DIY lover, however he wasn't very good at DIY. I know my limitations, ( as Dirty Harry said, " a mans got to know his limitations " ). If something needs doing and I can't do it, I'll ask for help from someone who does know! The previous owner of my house apparently just went ahead and did it regardless, and did it his way. For instance, there used to be a greenhouse in the back garden, an 8x6 aloominum framed building with missing and broken panes of glass. It was in the middle of the garden, right in the middle of it. Have another look at the first photo in this thread, as you'll see, the back garden isn't that big, I would have argued that it wasn't big enough for an 8x6 greenhouse, but if he had to have one, why the hell couldnt he put it in a better position so that the rest of the garden wasnt rendered useless! anyhoo, the remains of the greenhouse were disposed of years ago. Leaving the foundation which was constructed of six paving slabs in a line surrounded by concrete. The interesting part ( and the relevant to this update part ) is that when I removed the paving slabs and started to chisel the concrete out, the concrete ranged in thickness from 2 inches in some parts to 8 inches in others, no hardcore under it and no obvious attempt at levelling the area first. So it really shouldn't have come as a surprise when the space for the shed turned out to be the same. I spent a good while thinking about how I could level the space out without spending too much on it, digging it up didn't appeal to me at all. Mostly because it's solid and in decent condition, pouring more concrete on top of it to level it out was dismissed due to overall cost. I looked into adjustable supports ( feet ) that are placed at measured intervals under the shed, then adjusted by means of a large nut, similar to adjustable coil over shock absorbers, but this would mean I'd have to use a base to attach the shed too. I already have a base though so decided against the idea. Paving slabs were a possibility, as were old pallets, both of these ideas were also dismissed when, Mrs Rebel started working on the front garden. before she did anything to it, there was a walkway / border that formed a large rectangle around the centre of the front garden. Initial thoughts were that it was just old paving slabs, it turned out to be made of the narrow side panels from a prefab sectional garage, 8 of them to be precise. Perfect! all 8 were lifted from the front and moved to the back, they were then positioned round the outside of the area for the shed to form a very solid an substantial foundation to build the shed on. They also meant I'd have an extra two inches in height inside the shed. You can see some of them in the pic below, One of them had to be cut into sections to be used to fill the 2ft gaps left at either end, I cut them using an angle grinder and stone cutting disc. Of course while cutting the sections, Mrs Rebel stated she wanted the rough, broken and cracked edge of the concrete slab squared up so she could create a step at some point. So after cutting the garage sections, I did that as well, apart from one really thin patch that crumbled away due to the vibration of the grinder, it looks tidier than it used to be. These are the main supports of the garage and the up and over door And this neat little pile are the side panels and roof panels As the weather here today was mainly dry but bloody cold I thought I'd try and bolt some bits together. Reading through the instructions provided the info that even though there's an internal frame work that the outer panels attach too, there aren't any corner supports. The four corners are formed by bolting the outer panels in place first, then attaching the internal frame to them. All the outer panels are numbered but rather than stamp the numbers in them, they're printed on in ink, which has all either worn or washed away previously. I'll need to search through the pile of panels to find the corner pieces. In the meantime though, I've bolted my newly made bracket in place and attached the upright support to it. For now, I've tied the support to the fence to keep it in place until the corners are done as can be seen in the final pics for today
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Feb 11, 2017 12:36:41 GMT
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Nice. Looking forward to seeing it progress
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1994 BMW 525i touring 2004 BMW Z4 sorn and broken 1977 Ford Escort 1982 Ford Capri getting restored 1999 Mazda B2500 daily driver.
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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Managed to get a little time in on the shed today, no pics as no changes but have solved a couple of minor issues that I had. Oh and created a new one! As I said earlier, I bought the shed second hand locally, when I went to see it, it was already dismantled. I was assured that all the parts were there with the exception of some nuts and bolts and the instructions. So far, I've only found one small piece missing but I've only bolted 4 bits together and it was an easily replicated piece. This started me thinking that there might be other parts missing, having said that though, the missing bit might yet turn up in amongst the pile of parts strewn across the garden.
Now, as said, I found the instructions online after a bit of research. It turns out that all metal sheds appear to be made by a company called Arrow, regardless of where you buy your shed, chances are it's an Arrow shed. I managed to find a clear and comprehensive copy of instructions that I was able to download. It includes not only the instructions for building the shed but it also has a parts list. After reading through the parts list, there's more missing than I was made aware of. As well as most of the structure being bolted together, there are some parts that are just screwed together and of course there's no screws! The exposed edges of the finished shed are supposed to be covered with some sort of beading / trim and I didn't get any! The joins that will leak ( panel to panel on roof for example ) should be covered with some sort of rubberised / water proof tape, is there any, err, no! Obviously I can buy the beading and water proof tape ( or similar ) but I'm going to replace all the screws with more nuts and bolts. Mostly because as we all know, screws can work loose, screw holes can become enlarged, warped, split or damaged very easily. Using nothing but nuts and bolts and maybe some washers should prevent anything working loose or not fitting / lining up correctly.
Anyhoo, the issues that were resolved today ( actually, yesterday looking at the time now ) are, according to the instructions, the four corner panels are part of the inner frame work. Meaning there's no upright supports in the corners, you build the lower frame, then bolt the corner panels to it, the central and upper frame then bolt to the corner panels as well, the corner panels themselves are slightly wider than the rest and have a 90 degree angle down one side that's about 2 inches wide. This bit wraps round the corner and the next panel bolts on over this bit. There's also an optional extra available of a sliding side door, I wasn't bothered about a side door when I bought it but, according to the instructions I have some of the parts for the side door. I was also wondering if there's any way to tell the difference between a side panel and a roof panel, the assumed that they must all be the same length! I couldn't remember seeing any corner panels when it was all delivered and hadn't seen any sign of anything that looked like a sliding side door. As all the printed on numbers appear to have worn off all the panels, I had visions of building the entire thing only to find out I would have to dismantle part if it due to having panels in the wrong places! However, I moved every panel, checking them all as I moved them and the good news is, not only have I found the four corner panels, I've also found the side door. The door itself seems to be very flimsy, if it's still the same when fully fitted, I can see some modifications taken place. As yet, there's no sign of any bits and pieces for the sliding part of the door, let's not worry too much about that for now though. Oh, I also found out that the side and roof panels are two different sizes, side panels are all 73.75 inches ( same length as the corner panels ) and the roof panels are all 78.75 inches long. So, some worrying issues seem to be resolved, fingers crossed! As for the issue I sort of created - moving everything around meant I had to also move some of the rubble that's piled up behind the garage for later use. This gave me a clear space from the back wall of the garage to the fence at the end of the garden. While manoeuvring things about I discovered that the whole shed ( all 24ft of its length ) will actually fit in the space available, but the up and over door will be right up against the garage! This leaves a decision to be made, should I revert to my original idea of joining the two structures together or should I cut the shed frame down and have a bit of space between them both? Think I'll work on that nearer the time.
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,954
Club RR Member Number: 29
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This probably doesn't fit here but is related to sheds, I've built (am building) a garden office based on a wood shed. It's fully insulated and boarded etc. Well almost, a 1/4 of the roof isn't finished internally. Recently we had a light dusting of snow, looking out of an upstairs window the shed roof was covered in a dusting of snow except the uninsulated quarter a good demonstration of the benefit of insulation. In this case the roof is 18mm OSB, with 2 layers of carpet underlay (it was free) as insulation and and 11mm OSB internally.
Apologies for the diversion.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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Thanks for commenting, your post does indeed fit here and it fits very well. Even though my shed is a metal construction it will need insulating, perhaps even more so as metal sheds are more prone to condensation than wooden ones. Thanks for giving me ideas and getting me thinking about it all. I've just read your brick shed thread, it's now book marked.
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,954
Club RR Member Number: 29
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I've just read your brick shed thread, it's now book marked. Better bring it up to date.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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What a gorgeous day it was here today. You'd think I'd make the most of it and get busy with one of the cars wouldn't you. But no, there's a shed to build goddammit! According to the instructions, it should take a couple of people two days to build it from start to finish. Two people, really! Surely one competent person can do it on their own? erm, well, no. If you do a quick Google for metal sheds, you'll find that pretty much all the info you find is of people who's garden is the size of a football field, not only that but they've also decided to build the shed ( regardless of size ) right in the middle of it. When you decide to build it 2 inches away from a fence on two sides it's a totally different matter! The problem is there not being a complete internal frame. I mean there's no uprights for the four corners. The internal frame is just supposed to screw to the outer panels in the corners. Obviously a cost cutting exercise by the manufacturers, it might work very well in theory, but in practise when you have to battle with very flimsy panels, well, it could be better! Anyhoo - I thought I'd get a fair bit done today, but no. I sorted all the panels into order so that all the wall panels were on the top for ease of use. Then put one of the corner panels into place and discovered that none of the holes lined up. After trying the other three and finding that none of the wholes lined up, I swapped the two lower frame lengths that run from one side to the other to solve the problem. It didn't solve anything though, other than waste time! I did notice that a couple of holes lined up. So I put a couple of bolts in just to hold the panels in place. At this point, I had to seek help from Mrs Rebel, the hardest part was trying to hold a bolt in place on one side of the panel while trying to put a nut on it on the other side of the panel, especially when your arms aren't 8ft long. So with everything still being flimsy, we moved it away from the fence and with one of us on each side, managed to get a couple of bolts in to hold it all in place for now. This is how it looks at the moment
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Feb 16, 2017 19:51:37 GMT
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If its not too heavy them maybe build the awkward bits away from the fence and push the shed into its corner after??
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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If its not too heavy them maybe build the awkward bits away from the fence and push the shed into its corner after?? It's not heavy at all. It's a good idea and exactly what we did in the end. Thanks for suggesting it, every little helps
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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Well, a couple of pleasant surprises today. But only after some aggravation. I was standing looking at the bits completed so far and it just didn't look right. After a more in depth look at the instructions and a double check of part numbers on the frame, I realised that I had put it together the wrong way! If you look at the last pic I posted, the panel on the right needs to be swapped with the panel on the left, but as well as this, the two lengths of internal frame that are bolted to the panels belong to a different part of the shed altogether! So, I dismantled it all and started again. It still looks like it did last night but it now seems to sit better and all the bolt holes line up. Not to worry, it's better to get it wrong at this stage than when it's 90% finished and all got to come down.
The pleasant surprises were - I found the bracket that I thought was missing and, now that I've used the correct length of frame work, after a quick measure up, it looks like it'll fit with space to spare. Which means I won't have to cut any of the frame. Hopefully, it'll be a relatively straight forward build.
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Feb 17, 2017 11:32:54 GMT
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I did wonder you know when you said about the bolt holes not lining up, so sadly wasn't surprised when you said this: But you are quite right when you said this: I should have piped up earlier fella, my bad. However there is a silver lining everywhere and you've found the start of it: Running the risk of trying to teach you to suck eggs, but my advice for this: Is to cool the excitement of MUST-BUILD-MAN-SPACE and take an extra breath while in the planning/thinking stages - if something you are doing doesn't look right and you couldn't fix it later with a hammer, it probably isn't right. Looking forward to seeing it up, insulated and being used - inspiration for my own future invasion/occupancy of the wifes 'summer house'. EDIT: It is important to note that while I am giving out this advice, I rarely (if ever) follow it myself and often find myself re-doing things I should have slowed and thought about more. So do not confuse my well meaning advice with any kind of holier-than-thou expert - I'd be proper eager to get this thing up and done pronto.
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Last Edit: Feb 17, 2017 11:37:02 GMT by mikeyp247
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Rebel
Part of things
Posts: 343
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mikeyp247 - you're absolutely right in everything you say. Not even off page 1 yet and it's been a comedy of errors already. So, after misreading the instructions - well, not looking at the pictures the right way ( if the pictures had all been centre folds, it wouldn't have gone wrong. Anyone else remember the J Geils band? ), since then I've been applying the old adage "measure twice and cut once", having changed it to look twice and build once. Which so far has been working well. Needless to say, since then, all holes have lined up and it's been plain sailing. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the outer panels should all be attached to the internal frame using screws, however, as it's already been built once and dismantled before getting rebuilt in my garden. I figured that even if the original screws had been supplied, they would have at best, been a loose fit. I decided to just use nuts and bolts to join everything together. My thinking being that nutscand bolts would allow a better and more permanent fit than screws. This does mean that I need to enlarge all the screw holes so that the nuts and bolts will fit. One thing that has surprised me though, is how flimsy the outer panels are. They do have ribs pressed into them and double folded seams that run the full length of the sides. When permanently attached to the frame though, they do appear to stiffen up a bit. I still wouldn't want to lean on any of the side walls though. Anyhoo - after taking it apart again in order to correct my school boy error, things have progressed well. Let's have some pics to demonstrate, after dismantling and starting again, this is how far I got that night On Friday this is where I was upto Saturday saw some more progress, until this happened, not just showing you a new shed being born into the world here you know. Just like the guys at "Roadkill" I'm also showing my mistakes that happen along the way. Unlike Roadkill though, my mistakes aren't being repaired using cable ties and gaffe tape. Spot the mistake And a few minutes later and it's like it never happened Then with the assistance of Master Rebel ( I'm so glad I didn't choose the name Bates for my profile handle ), we started adding the external panels to the back wall, so Saturday finished up looking like this
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1968 Dodge Charger 1985 Chevrolet Camaro 1993 Toyota Hilux Surf 2001 Ford Mondeo
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Glad you didn't take offence. Looking good now and looks like progress will now be made - and as you said, all still on page one!! Must admit, I'm very jealous of this already - going to be a great space when it's up! Keep at it.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,954
Club RR Member Number: 29
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( if the pictures had all been centre folds, it wouldn't have gone wrong. Anyone else remember the J Geils band? ) Oh yes, must search youtube for the video (found it link), remember a drum that's full of milk (02:49 on video).
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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