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Aug 28, 2016 18:42:57 GMT
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Recently ive been itching to get a new project, something tax free that i can use occasionaly, and something that i can put a bit of money into (i don't have bottomless pockets) that will be more likley to keep its value rather than loose it (to be fair, thats probably on everyones wish list). Also, something that a little bit 'out of my box' nothing like anything ive had before. A mate suggested a beetle,(his t25 is currently in my custody) initialy i scoffed at the idea, but now i cant get it out of my head and ive found a slightly unusual one down the road from me. Recent engine, has mot, a bit scruffy and dented but overall reasonably presentable and seems to be quite an honest example. Its slightly over my budget, but s#it happens
Now, without going onto a vw forum and asking this question and getting a response along the lines of ''yes do it for ultimate scene points'', do any of you here have experience of owning a beetle and any of the plus points and negatives, anything i should look out for, is it more of a nightmare than a dream? It a massive leap into the unknown for me and the choice has nothing to do with it being a vw, so should i just forget it and avoid the scene tax, or jump in regardless?
Any advice greatfully recived.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:33:27 GMT
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If you can't currently afford a really really good one (oxymoron) it will eat time and money disproportionate to its horrible driving experience unless you go mental and fit expensive engine and suspension and and and .........
But you will score lots of scene points and be able to use words like rad and cool and pretend that surfing is lifestyle choice
Don't listen to me I hate the things as a victory of myth over reality, sorry I'm not being any help at all am I.
I'll get my coat.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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Aug 28, 2016 20:09:45 GMT
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Cut one up and build a sand rail. Honestly they're like marmite, someone I knew had one as his first car at 17, closest thing to a fanny magnet you could imagine at that age....I just couldn't see the attraction other than the girls.
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fazzer
Part of things
Posts: 213
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Aug 28, 2016 20:33:19 GMT
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if your good with welder buy one ive had a few over the years always rot and not great to drive but some (early models)look cool,if you aint into them don't do it,i have a vw t25.
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Aug 28, 2016 20:40:44 GMT
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I get the marmite thing, I'm trying to ignore the vw tag and I'm just looking at something different. As far as the potentaily horrible driving experience, ive had a number of cars maxis, minis, MG maestro, chevette, micras, mk2 granada, lada riva, (ive driven plenty of 'awesome' cars too)and the driving experience i enjoyed the most was the lada, basic clunker. I don't aim for the sky with my taste in cars, another potential candidate was a 2cv, my idea, quickly slated, but the point is i want something poles appart from what ive had before.
I must admit tho, the comments so far do sort of justify my slight unease, and with the scene tax comes a relitivly large price tag for a car that, if it wernt a vw, would be about half the current asking price given its condition.
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I've had a few Beetles and their main problem is that they take a huge amount of neglect from owners who think chrome engine trim is more important than a good quality exhaust. So they keep running but get less reliable, less nice to drive and are a constant drain on your pocket.
But, if you have a good one it's really nice. The driving experience is sufficiently different to modern cars to make it interesting, learning how to get the best out of one is good fun and despite what all the bar room experts say they can be hustled along quite quickly (relatively) and be an involving drive.
They also have a feeling of integrity and honesty, the car supplies the essential bits to be a car and nothing else. The only other feeling I had that with was a Land Rover and that makes ownership a nice thing.
We can deal with the usual comments here:
"It's slow" Well, 40ish bhp isn't much and accelerating up steep hills won't be done in anything above second gear but other cars are slow too. An Austin A30 is slower, so is a 2CV and so is a Ferrari compared to a motorbike. So what? When I had my last Beetle I also owned a 170mph bike, both were fun on their own terms.
"It's got no heater" Not exactly, there's usually no fan assistance for the heater (although you can get fan assistance in the scuttle box on some cars, or rig up an additional fan in the back). The heater works differently, airflow is based on the engine speed so no faffing about at 30mph in 4th gear, thanks. As the inside of the car is well sealed you also need to crack open a window to encourage airflow. And many aftermarket heat exchangers (part of the exhaust) are rubbish so shop around for good ones. You can also fit an Eberspacher petrol heater for ultimate toastyness.
"It doesn't handle" Yes, it really does. A bit like on a motorbike, if you brake going into a corner you're very low on grip but that just means you need to drive it properly. Good tyres, correct front end alignment and you'll be fine within its limits. 1302s and 1303s came with semi trailing arm rear suspension which is a bit more forgiving than the older cars with swing axles, but any rear engined car needs more care than a front wheel drive car. With FWD you can lob it into a corner, hit the brakes and it'll probably be ok, you can't do that with a Beetle. However if your driving is smooth you'll be just as fast. Here's a completely standard one in 1963 against a Mini that every bar room expert knows handles well. Watch from 5:20
Own a bad one and it'll turn you off forever, which is probably where some people get their negative opinions. But a good one is a nice thing to have and they're not difficult to fix at all.
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Last Edit: Aug 29, 2016 8:22:22 GMT by garethj
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My first car that I owned was a 1500 Beetle, which I used in motorsport and really enjoyed. I loved it mainly because it was cheap and durable enough to throw around a dirt track! I think the prices are completely different in the UK, I paid $300 for mine in 2008, which was running and had no major rust:  So, for a 1970 1500cc swing-axle car, plus points: Very direct steering, which feels great compared to a lot of cars. Brakes are pretty good (front discs) Puts a smile on your face to drive and can be enjoyed at road-legal speeds Very reliable and durable car, mine never let me down, always started first time and got me to my destination despite being completely worn out (ran 40W70 oil and had 70psi compression in #3 cylinder) Parts are dirt cheap, readily available and the car is simple and easy to work on. I ran it on a near-zero budget as a university student. No oil filter to change, just fresh oil and clean the strainer every second service. I checked the points and valve clearances occasionally, but never had to touch either as they didn't move at all. Nice small size, easy to place on the road and park. Negatives: Slow acceleration, you will be left for dead by grandmas in Hyundais. Most of them are very loud, however they don't have to be. This is mainly due to cheap reproduction mufflers with inadequate baffles. Proper original-type exhausts are nice and quiet. If you try to improve the slow acceleration with engine upgrades, the car will fight you all the way! Hotting up the engine is ludicrously expensive for small power gains. Changing to Weber carburettors ruined the faultless reliability and easy starting of the standard engine. The shape and access of the luggage space is really annoying. The front area under the "bonnet" is no higher than a shoebox, and the rear area behind the rear seat is accessed through the front door. Awkward to get an esky full of beer in there, but it can be done! The snap-oversteer of the swing axle suspension can be dangerous if you are not used to it, however I found it easy to learn and had no trouble sliding the car sideways through my local hills roads. Over the course of my ownership, I upgraded the engine to a later 1600cc twin-port in good condition. This is definitely a very worthwhile upgrade for any Beetle. Then, I unfortunately wrote that car off and replaced it with a 1971 S-Bug, which you would call a 1302.  These have much more modern handling than the swing-axle cars, due to the front struts and double-jointed IRS. Mine had 14x6" rims, the same as my 1500, which I much prefer to the original 15x4" rims. The plus and minus points I listed above are the same. Overall, I rate them highly as a cheap daily driver classic. However, if I had a larger budget, I would personally be looking for something faster. My build thread: retrorides.proboards.com/thread/50138?page=6 |
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     I must admit i never got the Beetle thing... Until i owned this one. I just loved it, it was fabulous! I think there are several 'key' cars to own/experience if you're a car nut, and one of them is the vw beetle. I owned this one throughout the winter one year and used it as my daily driver! The only problem was the fuel gauge didn't work so I would occasionally run out of petrol, but other than that it never broke down, it was brilliant, it wasn't even that cold to be honest. The funny thing is that when I bought it all my friends took the wee wee, but I bought it with about eight months MOT, drove it until the MOT ran out, then I didn't bother getting it re-MOT'd and just put it back on ebay without, and it sold for much more than I paid for it when it was MOTd!! Great car, buy one, and experience it, if you love it like I did, then great. But if you hate it, then at least you'll be able to say you've experienced one. Funnily enough, all of my friends who tell me that they're rubbish, have never owned one, or even been in one, so you're better off trying one for yourself, at least then you'll know! Good luck fella! |
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Aug 29, 2016 10:32:00 GMT
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Ive never been near one, never driven one or been passenger in one, and when i was younger and regularly going to car shows I used to hate the noise they made, but now its its wondering what all the fuss is about and i feel i need to find out, I agree that if your a car nut its one of those cars you need to experience, and as with the lada i had, some would slate it into the ground because of the image that others may have projected, truth be known the lada is tough as old boots, full of character, slightly agricultural, starts in all weathers and has tonnes of potential, and i loved it to bits. Ive pretty much got the same view of the beetle to be honest. The only car i would never wish to own is a mini moke. I drove one once. It was like driving a pallet, absolutly terrifying at 60mph, but i can still see the appeal.
I see what your saying gareth about shiney bits versus essential bits, authough the car I'm looking at had a new engine last year and it all looks very nice under the bonnet (boot?) the bodywork has been let-go a little, and what has been repared seems to have been bodged to a certain extent, yet honest enough that you can see whats been delt with. I'm not going to know until i look at it in the metal.
Thanks for all of your views, it really helps to give me a better understanding of what I'm looking at.
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Aug 29, 2016 15:44:06 GMT
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My grandad bought me one to use as a first car that had been "restored". I use this term lightly as by restored he meant he had used everything but metal to fill holes, then used black underseal to make it look tidy. It was rotten everywhere. Buy the best you can afford, I'd have another especially now I know where to prod.
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Aug 29, 2016 17:06:27 GMT
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Ok I have had over 6 beetles over the years but my pink beetle is the one I have been restoring for two years and cost me £800. So far i have spent over a grand and still not finished it.. Not sure you can buy one at that price now and think you can spend a few hundred pound and get it up and running and looking as did when it left the line..
So if you got loads of money and time this is not a problem I can only buy parts and panels as I can afford them.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:04:20 GMT
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I don't understand why people are saying they're so bad to drive, they're not. Yeah they're slow and noisy but it's an old car so what do you expect? They're so easy to work on and parts are cheap. Like all classic cars the main thing is rust, important bits would be the heater channels and the frame/bulkhead. If they rust then the body needs to come off to repair properly, which is exactly what my old bug needed doing. So have a good look underneath and inside. I'd say see if you can take it for a little drive. If you buy and don't like it you can always sell it again, at least you've scratched an itch and can stop wondering, you know?   |
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2001 vauxhall corsa 1972 VW Beetle 1986 Ford Capri Laser1999 BMW E36 323i Touring 1991 Volvo 940 estate 2002 Mazda 323f 2.0 sport 2016 Mercedes Sprinter 1999 nissan almera 1.4 1995 lexus gs300 1995 lexus ls400 1975 bmw 1602 fiat punto 2003 ford fiesta something else... |
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Sept 5, 2016 17:33:24 GMT
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Well, after a week of trying to arrange to view the car, ive sot of given up. With me available every day to see the car, it seemed every excuse was made to ensure that i wouldnt be able to see it until after the auction ended. No chance of me throwing money at it then! It just felt like there was something he didnt want me to see.
Now that ive looked at other ads ive realised that my budget isnt going to buy me a car in the sort of condition i wanted, and I didnt want to buy a money pit. So, for now I'm going to see if i can up my budget, and while I'm at it, possibly consider something else other than a beetle. Theres more than one itch to scratch. thanks again to all the above for their input.
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Last Edit: Sept 5, 2016 17:34:16 GMT by bmcnut
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Sept 5, 2016 17:52:13 GMT
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I had one when it was relatively new so no rust or rot and loved it. In fact only got rid because needed something bigger when first child came along and gave it to my brother. If I could find another in same condition (and price ) then I'd have one in a shot. Yes - they have a lot of failings compared to modern cars but are far more fun to own and drive. |
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Sept 5, 2016 19:41:10 GMT
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I'm a little biased as I've had an on / off love affair with air cooled VW's since buying my first one well over 30 years ago.
Since then I've owned and had as my daily driver 6 or 7 beetles, a similar number of bay window and T25 vans and last week I bought my 6th Beach Buggy. I also ran a sideline business importing bay window vans from Australia for a while so I've driven them a lot.
Yes they can rust, but what 30-40 year old cars don't?
Yes there is a 'scene tax' premium these days, but that's not just VW's. Beetles are cheap compared to Mk1 and 2 Escorts and Mini's.
But, they are great to own, of the many cars I've owned over the years (140 at the last count!), it's the VW's I really bonded with, and those are the ones I miss after selling them.
They are not fast, but they handle ok if treated with respect and consideration, but above all they are great to own and drive and have real character - something not all catro cars and almost no modern cars possess.
Choose carefully, don't buy the first one you see and ideally take someone who has owned one before and will know when a car feels right to drive. Parts are plentiful and relatively cheap and although the VW scene (like many others) has it's fair share of knobs, there are some genuinely nice people who drive them.
Buy one, live with it for a while, chances are you'll sell it for a profit regardless!
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Currently driving a '68 Karmann Ghia as my daily. Don't ask about previous cars - there have been way too many and I stopped counting at 160!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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VW Beetle. Why not?ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Sept 6, 2016 14:27:17 GMT
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I'll reply later but in short.
Buy cheap with one of these and buy 3 times. Many have been slammed and maintained on a shoestring budget, i.e the priorites for keeping it good have been thrown out of the window. Even with pricier ones look carefully. Ones that drive well do exist out there. I know, I owned one, but I bought one that had been stood for a while too!
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Jul 17, 2017 23:43:03 GMT
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This is mine, gotta love a beetle..   |
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Jul 18, 2017 11:29:51 GMT
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I have a 72 beetle which I bought in November last year. I mirror ChasR 's comments. It looked good, loads of mods, last MoT was clean. Turns out it's not as great as I hoped. To get it through this MoT and to get it running right has cost me £1000 so far and is going to cost me at least that again in welding. I admittedly bought it on a whim on eBay. If you can, try and get a potential buy checked by someone who knows what to look at, I wish I'd done that! It's pleasure to drive though and I really enjoy the car, hopefully I can drive it legally again soon!  |
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VW Beetle. Why not?Mercdan68
@forddan68
Club Retro Rides Member 68
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Jul 18, 2017 19:04:47 GMT
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Plenty of mates had them when I was a yoof
Me?? I hated them , overrated overpriced and rattley
I'd like one now tho!!! Prefer the early sixties models
Don't rush with a buy,, keep looking and look at other stuff too, you can buy a retro without having to spend fortunes on repairs
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Fraud owners club member
2003 W211 Mercedes E class
1989 Sierra sapphire
1998 ex bt fiesta van
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To me beetles are very much like minis, they attract the "it's a simple car so even a novice can work on them" type of people. To some degree it is true, until you get to rust. So you end up with a people who have never welded before thinking they can do structural repairs because the cars are so simple. So you end up with a lot of them being held together with pigeon phoo and biscuit tin patches.
If you are going to get one take someone with you that knows them well and knows the main areas to look for rust and bodges. Many of them look quite tidy but can be hiding a whole lot of nightmare under the shiny paint and chrome work.
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Last Edit: Aug 2, 2017 14:14:30 GMT by roccoguy
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