scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Mystery Car - Pistonheadsscimjim
@scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member 8
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Dec 13, 2019 17:51:11 GMT
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Definitely not a one-off. Initially built by Reliant in CKD form for autocars, they also ‘Anglicised’ it and produced the RHD Sabre 4 GT and convertible, later getting the straight 6 to become the Sabre 6.
I’ve always thought that Harrington have to be a real contender, so many styling cues and they were a well developed builder of prototypes/small volume cars. Looking at their Club website though, there’s some really deep detail there, so surely someone would have known about it or even seen it in the background of a factory shot somewhere?
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Last Edit: Dec 13, 2019 21:49:01 GMT by scimjim
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Dec 14, 2019 19:19:53 GMT
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I always thought it was more Harrington Alpine based, but again, although close in some details, a lot doesn't work  there was also an interesting supposed one-off car in the Dezer museum I spotted on an old episode of chasing classic cars with similar features:  no idea what it is though... The launch of the ACTUAL Harrington Alpine slightly postdates the picture, so it's unlikely to BE one modified or whatever. However the general profile is unmistakeably similar. Even the colour of this example pictured is quite close to the mystery car! I can see why, at a glance, the Harrington seems like a viable basis.
Being of the same persuasion myself, I can understand the idea of someone going "what if we put a wraparound screen on an Alpine, wouldn't that look cool?" and then actually doing it cos the drawings looked so good! And then maybe adding a few other styling cues they liked from other new models or swanky show prototypes.But nothing in that plan would involve a 10% shortening of the wheelbase, there'd be no NEED! The same applies to removing all the front end sheetmetal and replacing it with something similar, but in a flip front, moreover a flip front with such a steep downward slope that it will no longer clear the original engine, MADNESS! Then there's the roof and those lovely, zany, but problematic gull wing doors and all the re-engineering needed to make the shell strong enough to support them.
It just doesn't add up! At some point you reach the level of having nothing much recognisable of the original car and wonder why you started from here in the first place!
There are dozens of other things as well, like the wheel size choice. The Alpine had 13" wheels and trends in the day were generally towards smaller diameter wheels, so why equip yours with bigger ones?
So for me, despite a lot of stolen styling cues, it's not actually a murdered out Alpine. This car is a one off, invented on a clean sheet of paper. I'd give long odds that it had an augmented spaceframe chassis and a Coventry Climax engine.
But i'm resigned to the idea now that we may never know. With the worldwide interest in this thing, if ANYBODY alive knew anything, it would have come to light by now!
I'm off now to design a chassis and suspension for it!
Steve
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,221
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Dec 15, 2019 10:59:18 GMT
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Wondering if anyone knows the source of the photo, either the photographer or the collection it came from? Most photographers take more than 1 picture....
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Last Edit: Dec 15, 2019 10:59:43 GMT by andyborris
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wildy
Part of things
Posts: 134
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Dec 15, 2019 11:38:41 GMT
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Wondering if anyone knows the source of the photo, either the photographer or the collection it came from? Most photographers take more than 1 picture.... The image is from Buses, Trolleys and Trams by Chas S Dunbar, first published in 1967. |
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Duggy
Part of things
Posts: 129 
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Dec 15, 2019 16:49:50 GMT
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Wondering if anyone knows the source of the photo, either the photographer or the collection it came from? Most photographers take more than 1 picture.... The image is from Buses, Trolleys and Trams by Chas S Dunbar, first published in 1967. There are a list of photo credits in the book, some of which have been researched and some not. I myself have spoken to a couple of possibles and had a chat with the London Transport Museum, all to no avail. |
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 17, 2021 19:03:24 GMT
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The car is based on a Sunbeam Alpine and I can prove it...if someone can explain how to post pictures on here from a mobile phone!
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logicaluk
Posted a lot
Every days a school day round here
Posts: 1,373
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Apr 17, 2021 19:50:46 GMT
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The car is based on a Sunbeam Alpine and I can prove it...if someone can explain how to post pictures on here from a mobile phone! switch your browser into desktop mode and use the add picture button below the text box |
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 17, 2021 20:17:31 GMT
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   Alpine with newer rear wing. I was not going to post these images at this moment in time as have got so many more great ones in the pipeline. However, there was a very real risk that my work was going to be plagiarised, so have had to go for it. The long story is frankly pretty bonkers and amazing. Frankly, this has been a pretty lonely quest as my view is almost unique, but it is correct. The car is an Alpine. My best guess is a movie prop or one off. More to follow. Will keep posting, so apologies for hogging this thread. |
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c1jake
Part of things
Posts: 229
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Apr 17, 2021 20:24:17 GMT
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Excellent.. this has driven me insane for years  |
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instagram.com/heapojunk
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 17, 2021 20:28:02 GMT
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Almost everyone thinks the car is small and perhaps a special with a 1930's base. It isn't. The clue is to the right of the lady in front of the car with a red top. Most people think the image is the driver. Some, including me, thought it was a reflection of the red lady. Wrong. It is in front/around rear wheel arch on the other side of the car. Please check out the image. What you are seeing is ribs. Ribs that are very similar to an Alpine interior trim (that would cover the chassis area).  |
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 17, 2021 20:39:05 GMT
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 17, 2021 20:54:13 GMT
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Apr 19, 2021 19:03:03 GMT
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What about the wheels then, those on the car in the book are much larger and disappear up into the wheelarch and I cant see you getting a 4 cyl Rootes engine under that bonnet.
More like an Austin 7 special with a side valve engine and chassis as suggested on PH's.
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,626
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Apr 19, 2021 21:36:44 GMT
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strongcomputer - wish you would use the same forum name for all the forums you've posted your theory on - would make life much easier  |
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Mystery Car - PistonheadsBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 20, 2021 19:22:31 GMT
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That's an incredibly detailed investigation, strongcomputer! Hats off to you for having such dedication! I guess the mystery is 90% solved now then. All we need now is some kind of discovery about how the car came to be or who built it, and it'd be case closed! |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,889
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Mystery Car - PistonheadsDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Apr 20, 2021 20:50:27 GMT
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I think you will still be pretty well on your own with your idea it's a massively modified, chopped, sliced and diced, sectioned ONE-OFF Alpine - There were numerous companies doing similar things in glassfibre all over the UK - taking moulds off this that and the other and making them into something else. One's two's and hundreds If a one off and no information available otherwise what would most say a Ginetta G10/G11 is? A customised MGB? - But we know that its not.  Believing something no matter how strongly does not make it a fact. Its just another opinion. You may well be right - who knows - but with so many subtle differences the odds are stacked against you. I look forward to the Thesis and as any good theorist you should be inviting the arguments to try and disprove it with an open arms. For me there is too much evidence to it being a GF special. But from owning GF cars and specials I do have a very biased view. |
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Apr 21, 2021 15:28:03 GMT
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I think you will still be pretty well on your own with your idea it's a massively modified, chopped, sliced and diced, sectioned ONE-OFF Alpine - There were numerous companies doing similar things in glassfibre all over the UK - taking moulds off this that and the other and making them into something else. One's two's and hundreds If a one off and no information available otherwise what would most say a Ginetta G10/G11 is? A customised MGB? - But we know that its not. Believing something no matter how strongly does not make it a fact. Its just another opinion. You may well be right - who knows - but with so many subtle differences the odds are stacked against you. I look forward to the Thesis and as any good theorist you should be inviting the arguments to try and disprove it with an open arms. For me there is too much evidence to it being a GF special. But from owning GF cars and specials I do have a very biased view. I can see the MGB analogy in the door shape and profile, quarter light design etc, it's very similar if not quite correct around where the screen and door come together. But the rest of the car bears little or no resemblance to a B. If I'd seen the pic without knowing it was a Ginetta, i'd have said it looked like a Peerless from a similar year. But then, not many folk remember what a Peerless looked like either! |
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Last Edit: Apr 21, 2021 15:33:11 GMT by HoTWire: Edit to fix quoting
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strongcomputer
Part of things
curse word off keyboard warriors. Whole forum I guess. Awaiting ban. Please. Do it. All forums are wibblepoo.
Posts: 52
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Apr 21, 2021 16:35:39 GMT
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I think you will still be pretty well on your own with your idea it's a massively modified, chopped, sliced and diced, sectioned ONE-OFF Alpine - There were numerous companies doing similar things in glassfibre all over the UK - taking moulds off this that and the other and making them into something else. One's two's and hundreds If a one off and no information available otherwise what would most say a Ginetta G10/G11 is? A customised MGB? - But we know that its not. Believing something no matter how strongly does not make it a fact. Its just another opinion. You may well be right - who knows - but with so many subtle differences the odds are stacked against you. I look forward to the Thesis and as any good theorist you should be inviting the arguments to try and disprove it with an open arms. For me there is too much evidence to it being a GF special. But from owning GF cars and specials I do have a very biased view. I can see the MGB analogy in the door shape and profile, quarter light design etc, it's very similar if not quite correct around where the screen and door come together. But the rest of the car bears little or no resemblance to a B. If I'd seen the pic without knowing it was a Ginetta, i'd have said it looked like a Peerless from a similar year. But then, not many folk remember what a Peerless looked like either! Hi Carledo, Good to here from you and thanks for comment. It was your previous posts that led me here. Right. Moving on. At the moment, unless I have missed something, there is not one person in Internet land that thinks I am correct. A few people have mentioned it might be a Sunbeam Alpine base, but (and stand to be corrected) not one person has accepted my view that it is. So far the blue forum is up to 99 pages (Date 21st April 2021) and 1961 posts. There are many posts on other forums and research places. Lets say around 3000 posts as a guess? 3000 vs me. I am akin to the lone juror from the film 12 Angry Men. Have not a problem with this, as a position I have been in many times in my life. So this is what I propose. Am stating right here and now that the car is a Sunbeam Alpine Series 1 or 2 and it has not suffered a drastic overhaul. Drastic in that everything has been changed under the skin. In fact, I am putting forward the argument that the car could have been changed pretty quickly and the person/people that did it are very skilled. Am also putting forward the argument that what was created could have possibly been reversed. This car may even be amongst us today in a different form (as an Alpine). This is not a popular argument, and as per previous posts, I would welcome questions and criticism. As an example, could I please ask that the questions/queries are not phrased as that would not work, your wheel size is wrong etc and so on. In other words, you are putting forward an opinion off the top of your head as opposed to asking me a direct question that I can tackle and prove to your satisfaction or otherwise. Can we agree that I am asked a question and I tackle it? For example the doors won't work (they do) etc and so on. If you trawl through the blue forum you will see that I thought the car was a thirties special initially. I was wrong. In other words I have not been a Sunbeam Alpine evangelist. It became a natural conclusion. So that is it. Apart from one thing. I am not some who has earnt my boots creating visuals on the web. Have designed 12 cars plus (lose track). Have 3D scanned 400 cars. Have created work for the Smithsonian (not impressed, but will mention it). Have had work in a number of Octane magazine articles. Have been on the front cover of The Automobile. Have won Octane Awards. Have created in CAD every single part of a Bugatti Type 35. Do you know what the above means? Zero. This is your opportunity as a person reading this post to make me look a dope. Wherever on the planet you are. Whatever car "status" you have. Go for it. Please pass the link to any forum you please. Retro Rides is where I am posting my info, as am not posting numerous places. The car is Sunbeam Alpine based. Please. Make me look a dope and as a side issue, become a super hero and solve the mystery car conundrum. Am not interested in endless discussion, but rather work through a solution. Please post questions. Will respond in 72 hours with an answer, query or don't know. |
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