sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Anyone have any knowledge/experience of these?
I've been doing a bit of research and I believe they are basically Dana44 which is very similar to Salisbury 4HA and about 62" wide hub face to face? I've been after a stronger axle for my Rover SD1 for a while, and really I want it to be a Salisbury 4HA as a period style mod. The Jeep Grand Cherokee also shares the same stud pattern so it's almost too good to be true! I have a spare Powerlock differential unit in 2.88 ratio that I want to use, although I understand the splines will be different so would probably need custom shafts making/importing to suit.
Is it too good to be true or not? The American sites have some info on them but apparently they had an aluminium bodied axle, but being export spec the ones over here should be steel?
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I've got Dana 44's both front and rear of my Mahindra. Massive units compared to the ones under my Disco ! Only negative is the cost of shafts / different ratios is very expensive even before you start adding shipping from USA and import duty / VAT.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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I've got Dana 44's both front and rear of my Mahindra. Massive units compared to the ones under my Disco ! Only negative is the cost of shafts / different ratios is very expensive even before you start adding shipping from USA and import duty / VAT. I'd say they're comparable in size to the normal Land Rover differntial, unless you've got the larger Land Rover Salisbury which is based on the Dana60? I've already got a Scimitar SE6A Salisbury 4HA axle casing but that's too narrow to start with, and had a quote of somewhere around £400 for a set of spangly American made shafts made and imported for me depending on exchange rate etc. As long as the axle is the right width then dropping my 2.88 Powerlock in assuming the Dana and Salisbury/GKN centres are close enough then I don't foresee any major issues before making mounts etc.
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You need to understand which Grand Cherokee you mean. The ZJ went 93-99 & have bearing issues. Also a different PCD to the later ones. The WJ/WG went 99-05 & are much better. Just had mine rebuilt with new diff bearings. These are 5 x 5" PCD the V8s have Quadradrive & LSDs front & rear. Useful info here:- www.wjjeeps.com/service/maintenance_wj.htm
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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You need to understand which Grand Cherokee you mean. The ZJ went 93-99 & have bearing issues. Also a different PCD to the later ones. The WJ/WG went 99-05 & are much better. Just had mine rebuilt with new diff bearings. These are 5 x 5" PCD the V8s have Quadradrive & LSDs front & rear. Useful info here:- www.wjjeeps.com/service/maintenance_wj.htmThe 99-05 WJ, should be 5x5" and apparently about 62" wide? I've been reading so much conflicting info on these, the American sites say they had different axles depending on engine and towing pack option, and also the Dana44 used in them had an alloy centre housing? I did find one reference that the alloy housing was just for home markets and that the UK should have the regular steel centre casing? I'm not interested in the internals as if it's closely related to the Salisbury then in theory the Powerlock unit I have should drop in? I just want a suitable axle casing to work with so I don't have to have one of my spare Scimitar axles re-tubed/widened if there's an off the shelf donor. I've seen a few on ebay that look about right to me, just need some positive info before committing to having one delivered...
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axleheathrobinson
@heathrobinson
Club Retro Rides Member 111
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If it's the axle from the late 90s one (think ours was called an orvis?) with the 4.0l straight six boat anchor, don't bother. We destroyed one of them, pretty much all of it died, and shredded the diffs, them bought another cheaply as we wondered if they were all that cack. Killed that one in short order too, again, pretty much all of it including the diffs. Considering how pants the engine was, and the fact it was on an awful slush box, the diffs should really have fared better. There's no drain hole in the diff casing, so I yanked the pan off, only to find bits of gear tooth in both of both cars' diffs. You need a special additive to keep the ATB diff happy, which I'm guessing had been missed out at various points in their lives, and biggest issue of all, THERE IS NO CENTRE DIFF!!! There's a direct chain drive. What the actual ferk? If you tried to park it in a tight space, the nose would bounce up and down as the wind up found it's way out through the inside front tyre. Tyre squeal all over the shop, power steering howling like a wookie that's caught it's cock in it's flys, and wobbling about like a fat drunkard on a waterbed. It was so bad I'll avoid driving anything that's been parked next to one, let alone using any part of one. Absolute bobbins.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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If it's the axle from the late 90s one (think ours was called an orvis?) with the 4.0l straight six boat anchor, don't bother. We destroyed one of them, pretty much all of it died, and shredded the diffs, them bought another cheaply as we wondered if they were all that cack. Killed that one in short order too, again, pretty much all of it including the diffs. Considering how pants the engine was, and the fact it was on an awful slush box, the diffs should really have fared better. There's no drain hole in the diff casing, so I yanked the pan off, only to find bits of gear tooth in both of both cars' diffs. You need a special additive to keep the ATB diff happy, which I'm guessing had been missed out at various points in their lives, and biggest issue of all, THERE IS NO CENTRE DIFF!!! There's a direct chain drive. What the actual ferk? If you tried to park it in a tight space, the nose would bounce up and down as the wind up found it's way out through the inside front tyre. Tyre squeal all over the shop, power steering howling like a wookie that's caught it's cock in it's flys, and wobbling about like a fat drunkard on a waterbed. It was so bad I'll avoid driving anything that's been parked next to one, let alone using any part of one. Absolute bobbins. That's not the one, early 2000's models I'm thinking of. It's the Dana44 I'm after, which copied by Salisbury gave us the 4HA axle type, Jaguars etc. Diff cover that looks like this:
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There is a cadburys sticker missing from that diff cover !
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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There is a cadburys sticker missing from that diff cover ! [sigh] I only want the casing to fit Jaguar internals to if it's suitable....
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axleheathrobinson
@heathrobinson
Club Retro Rides Member 111
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Should be loads better then, ours was '95 I think? Awful vehicle. So bad we had to buy a second one to check the first wasn't a fluke.
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I also think they use left and right twix as halfshafts !
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Last Edit: Feb 10, 2016 0:19:41 GMT by Deleted
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Feb 13, 2016 10:39:56 GMT
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Some info I gleaned and posted on scimitarweb a few years ago seems to indicate it's possible: the Jag unit is very similar to the Scimitar (we use the jag LSD which drops in with one small mod). The XJS had a DANA axle for a couple of years in the mid 80s. You probably know that DANA now own GKN/Salisbury as well as Comaxle in Italy.
DANA LSD Replacement The gears for the DANA Type 44 limited slip differential will fit in the Jaguar unit (4HU). This includes gears from many larger American cars and small trucks. However, there are problems that must be overcome. First, the DANA ring gear will be threaded for smaller bolts than the Jaguar originals, so bushings will have to be fabricated to make the smaller bolts fit snugly in the holes.
Second, the replacement pinion will not mate with the Jaguar input flange, so a Chevy input yoke will have to be used. The Chevy yoke is the type with U-bolts that retain the U-joint bearing caps directly, so the flange on the rear end of the drive shaft will need to be removed. Since the Jaguar driveshaft uses standard Chevy U-joints, they will match up fine.
The salesman at Quality Jaguar reports that while the DANA gears will work, they are considered inferior to the Jaguar parts. Specifically, they tend to whine more, and of course the smaller mounting bolts are not as sturdy.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Feb 13, 2016 12:16:18 GMT
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I did a bit more hunting and it appears the Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ series did not in fact have the Dana 44 axle fitted, but the D44A so will not work with what I had in mind.
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Feb 13, 2016 19:34:16 GMT
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How wide is the 85-87 XJS - you might find one being broken? The early ovlovs with the 44 are about the same width as a Scimitar
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Feb 13, 2016 20:32:27 GMT
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How wide is the 85-87 XJS - you might find one being broken? The early ovlovs with the 44 are about the same width as a Scimitar Jaguars are IRS and Volvo's are an entirely different axle family altogether. I'm looking into the axles as fitted to black cabs now, clearly the Salisbury variant I want and look to be wide enough for what I have in mind?
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Feb 13, 2016 22:46:07 GMT
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sorry - you're right, the XJS DANA 44 is IRS. The 240 volvo had a dana30 series - shouldn't believe everything you read on the net eh? black cab axle? these people could help?
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axleheathrobinson
@heathrobinson
Club Retro Rides Member 111
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Feb 14, 2016 11:11:30 GMT
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Let us know what you find out. I've been considering the Volvo axle for my Capri, but the taxi option sounds interesting, so keep us posted.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Feb 14, 2016 14:13:20 GMT
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Let us know what you find out. I've been considering the Volvo axle for my Capri, but the taxi option sounds interesting, so keep us posted. The Volvo could be an option, a quick Google indicates they can be found wide, and an LSD option is available, but the ratios aren't right for me. Black cab axles also look wide, from those pics I'm fairly certain they are Salisbury 4HA style which would suit me as I've got a spare 2.88 Powerlock ready to fit. The hub bearing ends are different from anything I've seen before, but chances are the axle would need some minor narrowing so replacement ends could be pressed and welded on to suit custom driveshafts.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axleDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Feb 14, 2016 21:20:24 GMT
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Aren't taxi axles either Sherpa ones on the fx4, or transit on the metrocabs?
Sounds like you'd just be better off with a Chevy 10 bolt. You could pick one up that fulfils all Your pcd, width, and locker needs for under 300 quid, and parts are easily and cheaply available.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Jeep Grand Cherokee back axlesowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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Feb 15, 2016 11:31:39 GMT
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Aren't taxi axles either Sherpa ones on the fx4, or transit on the metrocabs? Sounds like you'd just be better off with a Chevy 10 bolt. You could pick one up that fulfils all Your pcd, width, and locker needs for under 300 quid, and parts are easily and cheaply available. Early axles with the 5x5 pcd mabybe the old Sherpa type? Not sure as details are sketchy and ebay only has the more recent ones predominantly available which look just like the ones I want. Alternative yank axles could be an option, but my heart is set on the period style Salisbury axle, and I understand them!
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