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Edit: change of title as its more lda than xud related
EDIT: Change of title as I'm now asking about timing.
Hello, we all know there are 18 brazillion blogs and forum posts on tuning the XUD unit.
Bosch pump yay, lucas pump boo, fuel screw, boost, Fmic, td04 etc...
I have some more unusual questions about the XUD.
I have the bosch pump, top mount (no air) kkk t2,
So the boost I'm getting at stock is. 0.75 to. 0.8 bar. Is this a little low or is it normal?
Also I have just fitted a land rover LDA boost pin. An agressive after market one. And I fitted it and no difference?
Its working, I can see a groove in the grease where it moved up and down so its working. But performance wise the car is no different, no smoke, no better oomph.
The old boost pin was set to the least agressive side so I imagined I would feel some difference.
I have wound the star wheel clockwise 1/2 a turn to allow the spring to descend easier and still bog all.
It appears I'm not getting any more fuel. I tried revving it on the throttle arm and manually pushing down on the pin and fuelling didn't increase? I would have thought pushing down on the pin while revving it on the throttle arm would up the fuelling and make smoke.
Reading that dudes xantia thread and all the landrover threads people say it makes a difference and sometimes they get too smokey and need to be turned down. I feel a bit jipped.
The new pin is a much more agressive profile than the stock one and the pin works perfectly. Shoots out freely and then goes back in easy.
Any thoughts or ideas?
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2016 14:43:01 GMT by stonyray
Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,302
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Bosch VE retarded?Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Is the boost actually getting to the compensator, and is the diaphragm ok? Boost should be 1 bar roughly iirc, my XUD7TE pulled 1 bar without issue.
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Pin shoots out easy and goes back in easy. More agressive landrover pin. Stock pin.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Is the boost actually getting to the compensator, and is the diaphragm ok? Boost should be 1 bar roughly iirc, my XUD7TE pulled 1 bar without issue. Boost is deffos getting to the pin. My boost guage is tapped just before there aaaand when I wipped the new pin out to check all was well. There was a little groove in the grease going pretty much all the way it was supposed to.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,302
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Bosch VE retarded?Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Hm. Just to clarify, I'm sure you have but you know, gotta start somewhere, you have fitted it with the side with the 'ramp' facing the pin spot on, yes? Without having a play personally beyond the above I'm out. My Diesel knowledge is ok, but I'm sure someone with some more answers will be along.
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Yes I did check that.
I'm beginning to think my pump could be a little retarded (lol), as I was reading the 300tdi thread on here and the mentioned white smoke when cold can be a sign of retardation. I do get loads of white smoke when cold. I thought it was dodgey glow plugs/ relay.
Also may explain the 37 mpg I'm returning.
I will move the pump 5mm towards the head tomorrow and report back.
I still would have hoped the pin would have some effect.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 863
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Have you measured the boost pressure at the manifold? You may have a restriction such as oil build up in the charge cooler or a delaminated hose.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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I haven't checked at the manifold (there's no way to do so without tapping it. However the charge cooler is clean and the boost guage tee is at the intercooler which is bolted to the manifold (top mount) so I'm fairly certain I don't have a restriction.
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Last Edit: Jan 8, 2016 12:46:48 GMT by stonyray
Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Also I cleaned out the fannimold and intercooler recently.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Right, I have just turned the max fuel screw up half a turn and the white smoke when cold go about 20 times worse. It even blew out white smoke when at about 50*C and rattled like mad. So I set the fuel back to base settings. And it shut up.
So I am now convinced the timing is out. The question is do I advance or retard. I initially thought advance but the white smoke and rattle makes me think maybe retard.
EDIT: I am going to retard first as I think I can do less damage doing that. If 5mm away from the head doesn't help/makes stuff worse I will try 5mm advance
This seem logical? Even with the fuel screw wound up the car couldn't produce a puff of black smoke just white dieselly vapor.
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Last Edit: Jan 8, 2016 14:08:16 GMT by stonyray
Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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benzine
Part of things
Posts: 333
Club RR Member Number: 87
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Bosch VE retarded?benzine
@benzine
Club Retro Rides Member 87
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Have you checked the basic timing? i.e. locked off the flywheel and checked the alignment holes on the camshaft pulley and fuel pump pulley? Belt could have slipped a tooth, might be worth checking before playing with pump position
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On a 205 with an XUD9TE that is an engine out jobby. I don't fancy hoisting the engine out of it.
The Timing belt was replaced with a full kit when the 1.9 was going in. Unfortunately I did not do the work myself though I wish I had. Thinking about it the engine has always been this smokey on startup. I'm hoping adjustment will do the trick as taking the engine out is a ballache.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,302
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Bosch VE retarded?Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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On a 205 with an XUD9TE that is an engine out jobby. I don't fancy hoisting the engine out of it. The Timing belt was replaced with a full kit when the 1.9 was going in. Unfortunately I did not do the work myself though I wish I had. Thinking about it the engine has always been this smokey on startup. I'm hoping adjustment will do the trick as taking the engine out is a ballache. What, you have to remove the engine to take the timing belt covers off and stick some M8 bolts in the cam and IP pulley and a drill bit in behind the starter? And I thought the BX was hard. Not to mention my quad cam Hyundai.. :/
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I am fairly sure, I am probably being lazy. I will investigate more thoroughly and learn to spell thoroughbready
EDIT: upon inspection I don't need to hoist the engine, I was thinking you locked off the crank pulley but its the flywheel. duh.
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Last Edit: Jan 10, 2016 14:47:48 GMT by stonyray
Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Jan 10, 2016 14:41:44 GMT
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Ok so today I slackened off the pump and moved it closer to the block (advancing timing) at full adjustment I still go no diesel knock, and if I moved it as far away from the block as I could I could retard it to the point of stalling.
Is this normal? Or could the pump be a tooth out?
I tightened it up as advanced as I could make it and it ran a little sweeter but still some white smoke from cold. I adjusted the max fuel screw up a shade and the revs rose almost immediately but I then slackened the throttle cable slightly as it was pulling the arm a couple of mm even at rest and it calmed down. I also turned the hot idle down quite a way and it still idled beautifully.
Took it for a drive and apart from a wee puff of black when I boot it smoke free. Boost still maxed out at 0.8 bar but I'm happy with that until I get my top mount replaced.
Any thoughts on the pump situ? I know I need to check the timing properly and I will when it gets a front mount.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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jasonj
Part of things
Posts: 220
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Jan 11, 2016 17:06:31 GMT
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Just a thought but did this engine always have the Bosch pump on it or was is originally lucas.? Reason for asking is that they both use the same bracket but the mounting studs have two different positions on the bracket depending on which pump is fitting. If the pump was changed and the studs not moved then the timing would be out.
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Team Supercharged Opel Ascona 400. 294bhp - 235 lb/ft
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Jan 11, 2016 18:17:46 GMT
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I believe the engine was always a bosch but can't tell for sure.
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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Jan 14, 2016 21:17:48 GMT
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Timing belt was fitted incorrectly - it's a ballache, but advance the belt on the pump by ONE tooth, and retard as much as possible before starting.
White smoke when starting on a diesel, is retarded timing (also makes it a pig to start). And your further descriptions make it an almost forgone conclusion, that it's timing. XUD engines are pretty forgiving, but still best to take the cautious approach IMO, hence the advice to retard the pump once advancing the belt by a tooth.
Also, if you want to see the true potential of the Bosch pump, remove the boost pin entirely. It'll take you a short while to learn to pull away without clouds of smoke, but once you're accustomed to it, it makes the car far more responsive to what you want it to do... plus you can chug out clouds of smoke on demand, lol
Also, a GT1752 is far superior to a TD04
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Right, just to confirm. I will be moving the pulley one tooth away from the head.
Logic is because if moving the pump towards the head with the pulley stationary is the same as the pulley moving back and the pump staying still right?
Also the only problem with removing the boost pin is the guvnor needle shoots out and lets diesel into the boost compensator.
I will also be sticking with my microscopic KKK T2
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Nissan Laurel SOLD BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC
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benzine
Part of things
Posts: 333
Club RR Member Number: 87
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Bosch VE retarded?benzine
@benzine
Club Retro Rides Member 87
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Jan 15, 2016 10:18:06 GMT
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I will also be sticking with my microscopic KKK T2 I think the stock turbos are KKK K14 or Garret T2 iirc. I've used both on my kit car and both were fun. In my experience the T2 felt like it had more to give at the top end whereas the K14 was more responsive in the mid range.
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