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I am informed by our boys in blue that the rules on the roadworthiness of cars offered for sale apply to private as well as trade sales. The difference being that the trade are obliged to offer a warranty (3 months IIRC) whereas a private seller is not. You are committing a criminal offense if you sell a car which is in an unroadworthy condition to another person unless that person has a licence to dispose of vehicle waste. Tax and MOT are no guarantee of roadworthiness. The buyer just has to contact the law, have them judge the car as unroadworthy (eg worn pads, sticky caliper, bald tyre) and then the cops come after you. This isn't small claims court balls but proper criinal offense stuff, goes on your record. I'm not sure of the exact tarrif recomendations but I understand that the first offense is a fine but repeat offenders could end up with a custodial sentence. This probably explains a couple of eBay ad's I have seen for cars described as "this suld be considered a collection of car parts rather than an actual car" or "sold as a restoration project only" even though it had long T&T. You can also catch it if you fail to include the manufacturers jack, wheel brace and spare tyre. Spare tyre also has to be legal. I presume that if your car is a late MG ZR or similar with a can of tyre weld from the factory this is acceptable so long as you checked the propelant is still in date etc. This week I feel like shifting to a hobby like stamp collecting. So when selling be very careful how you word your advert etc.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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This is utter rot.
So I can go out and knowingly buy a complete death trap, even if it described as such, then get the sellA up before the beak? Does this mean that I need a waste disposal license before I can purchase a project car?
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It seems well crappy to me as well. Its apparenyl to crack down on those dodgy car dealers who pretend to be private sellers but have a dozen old heaps for sale off their drive at any one time.
Its not a requirement that the car has to be A1 in every way, but it has to be "roadworthy"
There appear to be ways to get around it if the car is obviously a project (like a barn find or what have you) but the one which could get us in bother is a ropey but MOT'd rolling resto type car or a recent MOT failure or something.
Just saying - cover your asses. "sold as seen" doesn't appear to cover this.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Please can you direct me to the law which says this?
I have a friend who was sold a car by a guy on this forum. On the way back, the car broke down when the brakes siezed on, and the police came along. The police then went through the car, and pointed out that the exhaust said 'not legal for road use' on it. By all accounts (brakes and exhaust), the car turned out to be unroadworthy, and the police were considering giving him a producer, and a fine. He explained that the car had just been bought, and he did not know the faults.
At no stage did they suggest that the previous owner had committed any offence in selling him an unroadworthy car, and they said that as it was a private sale, caveat emptor applied.
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1951 Split Window Beetle - SOLD! 1965 Mercedes 230SL 1966 VW Beetle 1968 Mercedes 280SE
1972 VW 412LE Variant - SOLD! err.... 2004 Toyota Corolla
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Sounds like a typical sledgehammer to crack a nut government solution to the problem. Come up with some shoddy ill thought out law that the real targets of will ignore/find a way round, while allowing the police a stick to beat law abiding citizens with.
More evidence for my growing belief that the law is now there merely to keep the majority in line while acknowledging that those already outside it are free to do as they please.
You should be allowed to sell anything to anyone. What they do with it it their business. If you sell a rotten pile o'cak to someone, if they choose to drive it home that's their lookout as long as you can show that you've sold it fair and square. The difference between a cut and shut fiesta sold via a dealer and a knackered Morris Minor with paperwork sold as seen for restoration or sparso only, should be obvious to anyone!
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This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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Sounds to me like one of these laws that never gets used in practice, although the legislation exists, actually prosecuting someone (especially a private seller) effectively is slim and none.
I work for the Auto Trader and deal on a daily basis with car deals (main dealers, regualr garages and small traders) and some of the practise they use are disgraceful, and I also know of trader who slip dodgy cars though as private to get rid of them. Therefore I don't think this legislation is anything for us to worry about.
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 9:26:20 GMT by Robinxr4i
Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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If this law is going to be enforced I think it's only fair the law about obtaining money by threatening behaviour is enforced too
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Thats what the police said to my just yesterday.
Me: I thought this was only applicable to dealers? Them: No. Applies to all sales.
Wouldn't be the first time a copper told me wrong, but I do vaguely remember a hoo-ha in the classic press about this very subject a couple of years ago. And by a couple I could mean anythig up to 15 LOL.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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This totally conflicts with a real life experience from just 1 month ago. I sold a Citroen Xsara for £800 that I had been running as my own car, from the lot, warranty and everything, completely roadworthy but 2 weeks later it began to run hot (it had been fine for the month that I had it), I got the car in for a coat of looking at, under the assumption that I would be given the opportunity to put it right, however the owner`s gobby, unreasonable wife came marching in making all sorts of accusations, and was so hell-bent on getting a refund rather than the car repaired I began to suspect an ulterior motive, maybe a family member had offered them something newer and said "go and kick up a fuss and he`ll give you your money back" - something like that. It was a headgasket that was required, nothing complicated, we could have had it back to them 2 days later but she wasnt standing for it, I dug my heels in as I felt I was being reasonable.
She then took the unbelievable step of calling the police, who took the unbelievable step of turning up. I stood and listened while she babbled on blatantly making things up and saying the car was dangerous (it was not, it just needed attention that we were more than happy to give it) and at the end of it all they gave her a ticking off, saying it was a civil matter and nothing to do with the police, then drove off. I imagine that would have gone double in the case of a private sale.
This isnt a pub tale or hearsay, it happened to me in May. This makes me wonder if anyone knows where anyone stands with this kind of thing.
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B-8-D
Posted a lot
down to one car!!
Posts: 4,038
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This makes me wonder if anyone knows where anyone stands with this kind of thing. nail on head.... most police don't actually know... (how can they be expected to know every law?!) they know the simple law that they use and enforce every day but for anything else they look it up first.. they also tell people anything if they think its right or its going to put the shatters up someone or get thye info they want.. i know a few "bobbys" and some of the storys they tell is amazing.. si
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I would think as is often the case, the laws are there to apply where necessary. Surely a car that 'needs a new back box' that was advertised as 'needing a new back box' couldn't fall foul of this law? Don't the buyers have any responsiblity for what they buy? Does the law assume that all sellers are trained mechanics and that all cars, of any age are without faults? That's going to put the pre-purchase inspectors (like the AA) out of business then - now that you can buy any car and then just take it back because you find a fault later.
I guess that all ads from now on will contain 'for spares only' - For sale 2003 Ford Mondeo, MOT & Tax, 20,000 miles only, one owner from new, immaculate condition, 100% reliable. Spares or repair only - will drive anywhere, but bring a trailer.
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 10:04:05 GMT by rmad
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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If this isn't plums made up by a copper on the spot (surely not ) then there must be some 'all reasonable efforts' defence in law? And if a cars MOT is only technically valid on the day it was issued/'til driven off the premises/etc as I believe... Then surely something similar has to apply?
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention '02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think '03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic) '09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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I honestly think we could be heading for just that - fine, protect the consumer, let them be as unreasonable as they like, in the end no-one proper, such as a private individual with an address that can be traced, or a proper dealer that offers warranties and has a premises to worry about will dare sell anything to anyone, it just wont be worth it, meanwhile all the tossers that sell cars from the roadside from a mobile number then vanish into the night having just sold a CAT C write off with a bent MOT and a f*cked `box will flourish, and no-one will have any redress against anything. Great.
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seems as crazy and not-likely-to-be-enforced-against-us as that 5 car convoy and go to jail forever thingy that caused debate a few weeks back. Bonkers anyway. I can believe its true just cos there are some bonkers laws. But I would have thought caveat emptor would overrule it in most circumstances. And there's a common sense law that says a privately sold second hand car should be expected to have faults unless the ad specificaly says it doesnt (in which case it would have been falsely advertised). though whether that extends to road worthiness and not just rattles and rips is open to the same amount of interpretation I guess. Anyways, I wish those f$%kers selling dodgy cars with a mobile number on every spare corner and patch of grass would stop selling them off the end of my road
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Bloody hell vic, thats sounds well painful, but the daft woman was getting a good deal there, headgasket goes while in warranty, and gets fixed, many miles happy motoring. the motor-gob should only come out if you'd refused. Which you did not, "no probs love i'll fix it". This 'Law' just sounds like another rule where they can blame someone for 'breaking the law' rather than taking excuses, like just to scare us into 'behaving' and crapping ourselves for breaking teh law everytime we breath. its like the law abut houses having working bits n bobs on em, like a house MOT, arn't they expensive and complicated enough already!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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seems Anyways, I wish those f$%kers selling dodgy cars with a mobile number on every spare corner and patch of grass would stop selling them off the end of my road Phone the council - I think they have the power to take them away as it is illegal to sell a vehicle on a public road - I know Ealing has been taking them away and either fining the owner or crushing them, (even if they've got tax discs on).
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Last Edit: Jul 6, 2007 11:59:17 GMT by anthonyg
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I think in future I will just torch them for the insurance money.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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So you can't sell a car, because the buyer will need a waste disposal licence. And you can't break your car up, because then YOU would need a waste disposal licence, explicit planning permission, and probably a million other bits of paper.
So what other options are there? Part exchange it for £1000 against a new "eco-friendly" Vauxhall (massive carbon footprint, killer road tax due to co2 etc)
Conspiracy theorists! GO!
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but thats what everybody WANTS to do isn't it?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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