tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Banning of car meets.tigran
@tigran
Club Retro Rides Member 142
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Jun 30, 2007 11:34:43 GMT
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OK it's not as dramatic as the title suggests but read the piece yourself, keep in mind it is from a motoring enthusiast website, but the basics are there. Ka-blaaamAs someone on another forum said it's aimed at kroooza meets - but then who's to say a bunch of retros meeting up or driving to a meet location isn't seen as a krooz in the eyes of an OfficAh of the law? My thought on the subject was: "They can F*ck right off with that. Under article 11 of the 1998 human rights act there is a fundamental right to peaceful assembly and the right to associate with others.They can stop it if it is deemed illegal but they would have to prove that any illegal activities were taking place at such meetings. It's getting more and more like living in a stalinist state." Discuss.
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Last Edit: Jun 30, 2007 11:35:04 GMT by tigran
1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Banning of car meets.slater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Jun 30, 2007 11:38:41 GMT
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Just tell the police to foxtrot oscar. 'What congrigation? i don't know any of these guys!'
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MWF
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,945
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Jun 30, 2007 11:40:06 GMT
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It's fair enough really, I'm sure it will only effect those causing a nuisance a gives the police an excuse to break groups up/move them on.
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Jun 30, 2007 11:40:20 GMT
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I can hardly see a paddy wagon full of riot pigs turning up at the "Five Bells" and dousing us with water cannons until we go home, really.
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Banning of car meets.tigran
@tigran
Club Retro Rides Member 142
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Jun 30, 2007 11:43:09 GMT
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I can hardly see a paddy wagon full of riot pigs turning up at the "Five Bells" and dousing us with water cannons until we go home, really. Just the picture I had in my mind. You'll never take me alive coppAh!
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jun 30, 2007 11:46:00 GMT
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the ace turning into Tiananmen square?
the nanny state is quickly becoming the USSR - and european law is simply sidetracked
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Someone just shot the elephant in the room.
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Jun 30, 2007 12:12:02 GMT
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If these bounders were outside your house til early hours of the morning you'd soon want police powers to move the fuckers on.
If you actually read what the police powers are then you will find its where 5 or more cars are racing, causing a public nuicance or are "being used in a manner likely to endanger the public".
Much of the "cruise action" invloves stolen cars, baiting the coppers and there have been a number of bad accidents. City force has had similar powers in place about 3 years and the city's much better off for it.
Of course clamping down on dangerous driving is a "stalinist nanny state". Maybe we should repeal the laws on drink driving, hell thats an infringement of my human rights to get really blasted intoxicated and not have to take a taxi home.
This is exaclty the same discussion on the same leal powers we had 2 weeks ago when this was actually news...
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Last Edit: Jun 30, 2007 12:13:25 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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tigran
Club Retro Rides Member
In rust we trust. Amen.
Posts: 6,444
Club RR Member Number: 142
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Banning of car meets.tigran
@tigran
Club Retro Rides Member 142
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Jun 30, 2007 12:19:39 GMT
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But doing a burnout outside the ace it technically causing a public nuicance. People doing a slow pass at the chelsea cruise is getting in the way of other road users - all these meets going to be dispersed?
Sorry to drag this up again but I must have missed the original discussion. Also many police powers come with a clause saying if there is suspicion that something illegal is going on - or if they have reason to believe, or if a nuissance will go on if they don't break a meet up.
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1964 Rover P5 i6 1987 BMW 525e - The Rusty Streak 1992 Micra K10 2001 BMW E46 316i 2002 BMW E46 330Ci 2013 BMW F31 320d 2018 BMW G31 530d
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Jun 30, 2007 12:39:26 GMT
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"being used in a manner likely to endanger the public". You mean actually moving? The public can be endangered by a perfectly safe driven car if the public decides to act like a twunt in the way of one. But the Driver always gets the blame.
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Jun 30, 2007 12:51:44 GMT
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Blimey, thats a grumpy post isn't it. Thats what happens when I get woken up from my after lunch nap...
Thing is Pistonheads have done the typical trick of sensationalising new by misreporting it.
Nottingham has a herritage of being "the cruisng capital of the nation" (I believe Max Power gave that honour) and at one point we had convoys coming up from Northampton, Birmingham, Sheffield and Lincoln and possibly further afield too, just top park up in the city and play loud music, hang out, do a few silly examples of bad driving and that was about it. But like everything it gets out of hand. And usually when the nobbers get involved. I used to occasionally go to a few cruises round the midlands and south yorks and all started off with a few classics, hot rods, yanks, customs, etc. and some modded hatches. Then barried up tat with knuckle draggin attitudes, and then the stock Orions and 3 series BMWs with Lexarse lites and lots of idiot driving. and then the stolen cars, intimidation, violence, and other bother.
One of the cruises in Leicester ended when travellers boxed some lad in a custom Pop in and were demanding with menaces that he "swapped" the car for some battered old landrover discovery one of the travellers had.
One of the ones in Doncaster I used to go to hit a real low when travellers turned up to do drift displays in fugged up old Transit vans. Bearing in mind that the retail park was still open and there were families with kids still about...
The Nottingham City cruises spilled out from the retail parks into residential areas and there wa a lot of racing round the broadmarsh, coupled with the drunk people coming out of the club(s) down that end of town and the revellers heading home via te bus station which they were racing round it was an accident waiting to happen. Final straw was an 80+ MPH chase between coppers and a lad in a stolen Orion ending in a crash in a pedestrian precinct. Cool when the Blues Borthers do it, but not when its a drunk / doped up 19 year old lad serving a driving ban in a stolen car...
So 'bout 3 years ago they clamped right down. You never see the same kind of activity in the city now. So they've all headed out to Mansfield and such places. I don't live up there so no idea how good/bad it is (ask Pillock?) but the local papers are always full of complaints that "something has to be done about this"
So it looks like they are doing.
IMO (and I've said this before) we have enough retail parks which are deserted at night, why not allow them to meet up there. Easy to supervise, get a few cops up there to watch for stolen cars, drink driving, public order offenses, whatever and everybody's happy.
Anyway, the actual injunction for the county. The one for the city is different and involves confiscation and crushing of your car. Pretty hardcore.
IN THE NOTTINGHAM COUNTY COURT BETWEEN
NOTTINGHAMSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL
Claimant
and
ALL PERSONS
INJUNCTION ORDER
IF YOU HAVE BEEN SERVED WITH A COPY OF THIS ORDER AND
YOU DO NOT OBEY IT YOU WILL BE GUILTY OF CONTEMPT OF
COURT AND YOU MAY BE SENT TO PRISON
On the 14th day of June 2007 the Court considered an application for an
injunction.
The Court ordered that:
1 All persons are forbidden from participating in a car cruise within the
County of Nottinghamshire. This order applies to persons who have
been served with a copy of it.
2 Any person served with a copy of the order has permission to apply to
the Court to vary or discharge it.
3 The provisions of Schedule 1 to this order shall apply.
4 The expressions "car cruise", "participating in a car cruise" and
"County of Nottinghamshire" have the meanings set out in Schedule
to this Order.
5 These orders shall remain in force until 5:00 p.m. on 14thJune 2009.
If you do not fully understand this order you should go to a solicitor, legal Advice Centre or a Citizens' Advice
Bureau.
-
..
Schedule 1
The requirements referred to in paragraph 1 are as follows:
1 Service of this Order shall be effected by an officer of the
Nottinghamshire Police Service, who shall record the name and
address of the person upon whom the order is served and shall
communicate the same together with the time and date of service to
the Claimant.
2 At the same time that this order is served, the person served shall be
given an explanatory notice in the form attached to this Schedule.
3 The Claimant shall serve a copy of the application for an injunction
herein, together with the statements in support upon any person
served in accordance with the provisions of this Schedule. Such
service shall be effected by first class post, no later than 7 days after
service of the Order. The Claimant shall not be required to served
copies of the DVD evidence relied on.
4 The Claimant shall notify the Court that service of this Order, the
application for an injunction and the statements in support has taken
place, the name and address of the person served and the time and
date of service of the Order.
5 The Court will then consider by a Circuit Judge whether to add the
person served to the proceedings as a named Defendant and whether
to make any further order.
-
EXPLANATORY NOTICE
You have been served with an injunction.
If you take part in a car cruise anywhere
within the County of Nottinghamshire, you
will be in contempt of court and you may
be sent to prison.
You will receive additional information by
post within the next week.
Schedule 2
(a) A car cruise is an event at which the drivers and passengers of 5 or
more motor vehicles congregate together or drive in convoy or race
each other upon the highway, so as by their conduct to make
excessive noise, cause danger to other road users or risk of injury to
any person or risk of damage to property.
(b) Participating in a car cruise refers to drivers of vehicles or their
passengers conducting themselves as described in paragraph (a).
(c) The County of Nottinghamshire is the area outlined in black on the
plan attached to this Schedule but does not include the City of
Nottingham where separate provisions apply.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jun 30, 2007 12:54:39 GMT
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But doing a burnout outside the ace it technically causing a public nuicance. its also "dangerous driving", or at the very least "careless driving". People hae been done for burnouts on public roads. And certain nights like the Fast Ford one at the Ace have been cancelled because of excess "high spirited" driving. Its about keeping a ballance really. Donuting round a roundabout when theres mail trucks and pedestrians is going to get you a ticket if a copper spots you. Chirping the tyres out of the exitway and making some smoke up the road won't (shouldn;t)
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jun 30, 2007 12:57:54 GMT
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"being used in a manner likely to endanger the public". You mean actually moving? The public can be endangered by a perfectly safe driven car if the public decides to act like a twunt in the way of one. But the Driver always gets the blame. I mean, what the law means, which is that if you drive like a cvnt they will prosecute you. The driver deserves the blame if they are doing 80 in a 30 racing their mates. When driving at speed down a pedestrian precinct or ignoring red crossing lights (I have seen both done in Notingham broadmarsh).... Yeah, its all very "cool" to try make out that "the man" has it in for every driver and all drivers are fine, but theres a bunch of curse word-up cretins out there intent of causing mayhem and they don;t deserve to be on the road, and if your car was hit by one of them or one of your mates or family was run down by one you'd soon be up in arms about it.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jun 30, 2007 14:48:52 GMT
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As for Mansfield, it's getting to be as bad as Nottingham was. The police tried a few different ways of dispersing them a while back - closing off part of the 'circuit' between 10pm and 4am for example - but they just moved to other parts of the town. Most retails parks are sealed off overnight so it led to regular 'cruises' along the A608 where it crosses the M1 at J27, just by where I work. Anyone needing to use this road to travel on (the main route from the motorway to Mansfield, so a fair few people even late at night) were greeted by racers blocking roads, doing burnouts, threats and damaged cars when trying to pass through the crowds etc etc. Note this order is nothing new, for at least 12-14 months there's been a dispersal order in force all the way along the A608, every other lamp-post has a diagram showing where you cannot gather. It's the same system they use in town centres where groups of youngsters gather to throw insults at people. So I don't know whether this order has expired and they've 'upgraded' it, or whether it wasn't working or what. However as A-K has said (on many, many occasions) it's there to use when people are causing a disturbance. 12 folks meeting at a pub for half a shandy and a chat about cars is not a disturbance, it'll be bought into play when people call the cops to complain. More than one car in the same place won't automatically trigger a police call-out ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) One thing mentioned previously is that 'even doing a burnout at the Ace might get you into trouble....' - why not? Why are we so upset about cruisers driving like morons in public places, but we expect to go out to the Ace and do burnouts in the carpark? What about all the people stood around, aka 'The Public'? As far as I know only places with paid entry will be exempt, so actual organised shows with liability insurance won't get visits from the plod. This, I imagine, is because their insurance and the health and safety hoops they have to jump through makes sure nobody is at risk from the burnouts, drift shows etc, unlike B&Q carpark on a friday night.
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Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
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Jun 30, 2007 15:05:29 GMT
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aye, theres definitely "one rule for us and another for them". I remember someone on another forum handing out great gobfulls of diss to "boyracers" and their antics. Then the following day posts a video of himself doing a bloody great burnout in his Chevy in a pub car park... Oh, thats alright because.... A bunch of paid entry events have no-burnout rules because of the public liability insurance issue. And theres burnouts and burnouts as well. I still think that the best way to deal with the "boy racer menace" is to allow them to use designated retail parks at designated times. If they can talk about tollerance zones for prostitutes in the city then they can do the same for cruisers. Or maybe they could just go to the pub like the rest of us do? I'm too old for a lot of this to make sense to me ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jun 30, 2007 20:11:35 GMT
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Errr, wasn't there recently a burnout related accident at a US drag race for charity that resulted in six deaths? That will do for making it a public nuisance... Oh, and these laws are always very carefully written, otherwise a convoy of one hearse and four limousines moving slowly would constitute a "cruise" and would be illegal ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Graham
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Banning of car meets.Robinxr4i
@robinxr4i
Club Retro Rides Member 143
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Jun 30, 2007 20:58:51 GMT
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God this kinda post is a vicious circle. But this is my 2 pence worth!...... the police/local councils/authorities are IMO being heavy handed, it's all a bit "criminal justice act" you know, we will arrest you because you look like you are going to commit a crime.
There should be protection for people against anti-social behavior (loud stereos in a residential area late at night, the police should give them hell) but if it's an empty car park on a retail estate and no ones getting harmed, whats the problem?
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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MWF
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,945
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Hmmm you know people actually own those retail estates and are responsible for them.
You seen what these 'krooze' types do to car parks? I can tell you what it was like at Festival Park in Stoke. For a start those plastic speed bumps make great chocks for doing burn outs on so after a while those were pretty much destroyed, of course burn outs require oil so the next morning there slippery patches all over the place, great for you public liability insurance that. At Festival park it also became a trials course as people decided to use areas of grass and flowers as a hill climb event, bet the gardener was delighted. Then there is the litter, go to the hot hatch shows to see how little respect for their environment a lot of these types have, they will happily sh1t where they sleep. To top it all even when they put barriers up they try and break their way in. When they couldn't get into the car parks they took to the surrounding roads, blocking them with pallets and cars and forcing people to do burnouts.
It's got so bad at Festival Park that the residents of the housing estate that backs onto it have started throwing rocks down at the kroozers.
Anti social meets with cars shouldn't be tolerated anywhere, it's easy to form social car groups and meet in a manner respectable to those affected, it's called having a car club and has worked for decades.
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Errr, wasn't there recently a burnout related accident at a US drag race for charity that resulted in six deaths? That will do for making it a public nuisance... Same as the guy killed at Santa Pod a while back - a private event where you pay for entry and is covered by liability insurance is a different matter to spontanious get tgethers. But I guess the point at issue was burnouts can be dangerous and shouldn;t be done where theres a risk to the public.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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While I agree that anti-social behaviour and dangerous driving while the public are around should be clamped down on, I can't help thinking that laws like this can be misused to harass genuine car nuts that are behaving responsibly. Let's face it, if the police don't like the look of you (and I'm speaking from experience here), they will get heavy handed, and even violent, even if you're not doing anything wrong.
Before long, I reckon that there'll be laws passed (under the 'global warming' myth) to make non-essential car use illegal. "Excessive and Unnecessary use of a Motor Vehicle" anyone?
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Last Edit: Jul 3, 2007 6:16:46 GMT by moggyman
1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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I see it as a long stretch of the imagination to come to that position. We sseem to be a paranoid society these days.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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