vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 25, 2016 18:58:11 GMT
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It's more like a V shape than an O. You've got the main block that glues to the door frame and on the top you've then got a short vertical leg that reaches the edge of the door frame and a longer leg coming out at an angle that reaches from the corner of the door frame to the corner of the door hole. This longer leg then squashes so it fills the available space to form a narrow gutter.
What seems to be happening on that rear door is that the longer leg isn't squashing enough because the door is too far away from the opening along the top edge, not by much, but just enough for the water to find its way past. If I can realign the door or reshape the door frame a little I should be able to correct it.
Tomorrow I'll find out if the boot seal is working if it's rained. If not, I might splash the hosepipe about and see what it highlights. Leak chasing is a chore.
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Nov 25, 2016 22:04:24 GMT
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I think the work for the 2 engines was dirt cheap for what you had done, sounds like you had some good luck there.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 25, 2016 23:00:34 GMT
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Rover is going to have cost about £240 to sort out so my initial 'worst case' estimate of £200 wasn't far off the mark. £100 to get the head sorted and cleaned, £80 for the gasket set and £60 for the fluids, sealant and filters. I had been warned doing a K series properly could get expensive and while that's not a lot in engine rebuilding terms, it is a lot for a car with a £300 market value.
This weekend is going to be a busy one. With the exception of the new headgasket I've got everything ready to put the Renault back into one piece again. I can fit the new headgasket with the engine in the car if need be but at the very least I need to get as much of the Renault back in the Renault and out of the garage as I can this weekend. Main reason is that next weekend Mike is wanting to bring a long-termer home so he can get it through the shakedown period prior to sale. There's a chance the Renault will be MoT ready next month providing it runs and I can afford to get a set of tyres on it. That's both exciting and quite scary.
Oh, and the Princess has not been forgotten! I've just not had enough cash to spend on all three so the pump rebuild has had to wait a bit. As with the Renault and the Rover, the Princess doesn't need much beyond time spending on it now. Little bit of wiring, setting the suspension and new throttle cable fitting and we should be good to go again.
*phew* I might actually get all three done within the next few months. Maybe.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 26, 2016 21:46:23 GMT
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Had a poke around at the door seals today to see if I can figure out why that little bit of water is getting in and found that the seals haven't glued fully in a few places. I was worried this might happen as it got very cold while I was doing the job. They're good enough for now to keep most of the weather out and certainly a vast improvement over where we were. If we get a warm-for-winter day I'll redo the bits that need it, if not I'll wait until after the MoT and do it at the unit where I have enough indoor partially heated space. That can wait. I wanted to get further with the engine, I'm eager to get it back in the car and tried out. First job was to get the boxes of bits out and lay them out on my useful table in my bombsite of a garage. Unfortunately I have lots of bits of Renault and nowhere to really store any of it while things are on and off the car. This is slightly compounded by having my tools and the engine crane at home after Mike and I fetched them from the unit so space is something of a premium as it's quite a narrow garage and not really designed to be a working one, just a car storing one.  There's not a huge amount to go back on. My goal before the head gasket arrives is to get the sump and gearbox attached to the engine. I can't set the timing or put the other bits on until I've fitted the new headgasket.  Got the sump on and the engine stood up again. The crank turns easily now, you can do it by hand without tools. Didn't get the gearbox on, the engine isn't really stable enough to do it on my own so Mike and I will likely have a crack at that tomorrow. Valve cover plonked on just to keep anything from falling into the top.  Eagle eyed viewers may notice one of the studs for the rocker assembly and rocker cover are missing in the above picture. The other thing that's gone walkabout are the bolts and special washers for the timing chain cover. These will no doubt be in the same box together, all of the Renault engine is in the garage, it's just that my garage is a bit of a mess at the moment, and some of the boxes of bits are under other bits of Renault. Progress is progress though, even if it's only a tiny little bit. |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 27, 2016 15:03:43 GMT
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It's pretty annoying that I have to take the car apart to put it together again. Mike lent me a hand today getting the front end undone and then it rained and meant we couldn't finish the job. I need to remove the bumper to get the face and bonnet off so the weather meant I had to leave the car looking like this.  On the plus side, I can now see that the car is definitely leaking a lot less. The new boot seal appears to be working to keep a lot of water out, I just need to redo the side windows properly as that is now the main point of ingress at the back. The weather has been quite annoying today, just showers on and off so I called it quits. I hate working in the rain.  The last thing Mike helped with was getting the gearbox located onto the engine. We've got it held on with two nuts for now. The stud for the rocker bar turned up... in the rocker bar. I still can't find the bolts and washers for the timing chain cover which is annoying me as I've got everything else and I'm not sure how they've got misplaced given that all the components were kept together.  |
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Nov 28, 2016 11:21:53 GMT
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ah does this have gearbox on the front of the engine like the early 5's and 4's ?
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Last Edit: Nov 28, 2016 11:22:08 GMT by darrenh
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 28, 2016 12:09:51 GMT
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That it does. New head gasket just arrived and I'm contemplating getting out into the garage and fitting it. I just really don't want to. I don't particularly enjoy working on this engine.
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Nov 28, 2016 13:09:11 GMT
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 28, 2016 15:52:34 GMT
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I.... I'm not sure that I'm ready to take our friendship to that level, but it's nice of you to offer  Coincidentally, it appears to have subconsciously frightened me into doing stuff today. --- These boxes no longer have bits of engine in them. That's good.  The boot is staying dry enough for me to keep what few spares I do have in it so the garage isn't so cluttered. This is also good.  My table of nuts and bolts and such is emptying. Another good thing.  The engine is looking like an engine properly, which is really the best thing.  Today, I got lots of things back on the engine. The sump bolts are all tightened up, the gearbox is bolted on properly, the engine-to-gearbox braces are done up and the bellhousing guard thing is bolted on. Alternator was taken off when I removed the head to fit the new gasket, then refitted once the head was torqued down as per the instructions in the workshop manual. While the alternator was off I put the spark plugs in the holes more so I don't misplace them than anything at this stage. The rocker bar was bolted on except for the outer two bolts which require a 11mm spanner which I don't have at home. Likewise, I haven't set the distributor properly as that also needs an 11mm spanner. The straightened pushrods were put back in their holes and the camshaft pulley bolted back on. There's not a huge amount to do: - fit timing chain tensioner - fit timing chain - set timing, both static and ignition - fit timing chain cover - bolt down rocker bar - set tappet/rocker clearances - fit belts - fit any hoses with new jubilees that are going to be difficult to do with the engine fitted, like the fuel pump hoses. Once that's all done I can plonk it back in the engine bay after the bumper and whatnot has been removed. Nearly there, I'm most likely to be held up by the short daylight hours as I need Mike to be a second pair of hands when it comes to removing bodywork and fitting the engine and he's only available in the evenings and weekends. Quite anxious about the engine going in and firing it up. I'm fully expecting it to all go horribly wrong somehow and have to come out again at which point I may just lose the will with this car. We shall see what happens. |
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Nov 28, 2016 22:16:53 GMT
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 , would have been a waste of lovely Marmite anyway Glad it gave you a boost, it's always a scary time when you first fire up a fresh engine, it does not matter how many engines you build!
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 28, 2016 22:27:59 GMT
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Those misplaced timing chain cover bolts turned up tonight. They were on my desk, where I spent a good eight hours a day working, and I hadn't seen them at all somehow. That should, in theory, mean that all the fixings are present and I can get everything buttoned up. Pretty sure I'll have missed something somewhere, there's a lot of bits to keep track of after all.
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Nov 28, 2016 22:40:18 GMT
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would it help if I offered to come round, smear you all over with marmite & beat you with a spatula if you don't get out there and do it? The threat of this seems to have been effective, which is good. Perhaps you should get onto the motivational circuit? I do have one question though; How do you see this method working in a highly unionised railway environment? Good news on the bolts, coming together nicely now. |
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,108 
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Nov 28, 2016 23:13:12 GMT
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marmite does have that polarized love it or hate it thing going for it
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 29, 2016 13:45:29 GMT
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I am stumped so I'm posting this info on all the forums I use for this car. This is going to be a simple fix but one that I can't figure out, I've just ended up confusing myself. In the book it states there is a V mark on each of the sprockets the chain goes on. My engine does not have these Vs or if it does they are so feint as to be essentially invisible. Here is the helpful diagram (which is printed upside down for some reason)  Now, when I first timed this I did it to "the timing marks" as directed by the Haynes and got it wrong because I lined it up to the two marks I do have on the sprockets that being a dimple on the camshaft and a blob on the crank, as below. The crank is at tdc when the blob is at the 10 o'clock position, piston nearest the timing chain is at the top when the blob is at 2 o'clock and at the bottom when it's at 8 o'clock.   If you line up as per the book instructions, taking the blob/dimple to be an alternative to the V marking, you cannot get a full revolution of the engine, presumably because a valve is touching a piston or something, I don't know. I wasn't inclined to force it, I'm being very gently gently in my approach. An internet hunt was futile, I could find info on how to time jet engines and ECU remaps but couldn't find anything to help me with this, I just ended up even more confused. So now I'm cold and frustrated both with the job and myself. |
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Nov 29, 2016 14:11:19 GMT
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Will the pulleys only go on one way round ie are there other marks on the back?
If you can find the valve timing data (usually specifies the peak valve lift as an crank angle relative to TDC) it's fairly straightforward to set valve timing using a protractor and a dial gauge.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 29, 2016 14:22:21 GMT
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Those two are the only markings on them, there's nothing on the reverse side. I'll look in the manual, see if I can find the valve timing data.
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Last Edit: Nov 29, 2016 14:22:53 GMT by vulgalour
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Nov 29, 2016 15:20:27 GMT
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It sounds like you're very close, I can imagine the frustration! Suggest you take a step away from it if you feel you're getting annoyed, but I think there are a lot of folk (including me) who keep watching theses updates and hoping you get it sorted. I think you're very close but out by about 2 teeth. Imagine a line between the center of the crankshaft and center of the camshaft (the dotted line in the manual). I use a long metal ruler, hold it over the engine to confirm everything is exactly in line  crankshaft is slightly out needs to turn (half a tooth?) clockwise so the dot is on the line 7 o'clock position (expect the woodruff cutout inside the sprocket to be exactly 6 o'clock position). Then turn the crank exactly 180 degrees so the dot is where it should be in the manual at 1 o'clock. camshaft. it's already very close but is about 1 tooth out, maybe 2 after you move the crank above (turn camshaft anticlockwise 1 tooth and recheck if the dimple is on the imaginary line) Note also the cutout partly showing behind the crankshaft washer - this is on your engine and in the manual, which is a nice confirmation. If you still have problems : Consider removing the rocker bar if it jams after resetting above (so no forces inside the engine and makes it easier to turn the shafts, and if it still jams you know it's not that) how are the pulleys fixed to the shaft? - could they be fitted out-of-position? (woodruff key on the crank, not sure about the camshaft) I'd expect the makers set the marks when the engine is a top dead centre (TDC), so I'd put the piston to the exact top and then see where the mark is on the crank, but... piston nearest the timing chain is at the top when the blob is at 2 o'clock It sounds like this is exactly where the crank should be when you're setting up. Best of luck, for info it took me a few months to get my head around setting 3 timing gears on a Triumph bike, then it just made sense and is simple now.  |
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,287
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 29, 2016 15:29:12 GMT
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It may have been the rocker bar jamming things up and my own ineptitude. Did I mention I hate working on engines yet? Because I do. Also, have you checked the Dereliction thread in the main forum? You have an appearance on it. --- Thanks to this post: www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49883&start=150 I got the timing issue resolved. I tried to take a video but... yeah. I'm going to need a helper to either turn the engine or hold the camera. And some better light. But anyway, it's turning by hand, things go up and down in an organised fashion now and it seems much better. It is, however, far too cold to do any more work in my poorly lit unheated little garage so a fuller update will have to wait. To resolve, I removed the camshaft sprocket, unfastened the rocker bar enough that it as loose and turned the crankshaft until #1 was at TDC proper (not what I'd mistakenly called TDC, which was actually 90* out). I then turned the camshaft independently to watch the valves, as per the instructions. Once things were moving as they ought I checked the blob and dimple and they lined up as per the book. Cautiously, I put everything back together and gave the engine a few turns and it turn perfectly fine with the valves doing their thing in an organised way now as far as I can tell. I hope that means I've fixed it and I wonder if it was the rocker bar locking things as I'd not known or had forgotten that it shouldn't be tightened down until you've set the timing. |
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Nov 29, 2016 19:34:33 GMT
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Good stuff, take heart that you actually figured it out and got it right - ok internet help was used but you still did it all on your own. Well done.
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Nov 29, 2016 19:37:02 GMT
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would it help if I offered to come round, smear you all over with marmite & beat you with a spatula if you don't get out there and do it? The threat of this seems to have been effective, which is good. Perhaps you should get onto the motivational circuit? I do have one question though; How do you see this method working in a highly unionised railway environment? Good news on the bolts, coming together nicely now. For unionised railways you will need a mixture of Nutella, marmite and caustic soda. dress up in rubber and beat with a fish slice. |
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....would it help if I offered to come round, smear you all over with marmite & beat you with a spatula if you don't get out there and do it? 
Coincidentally, it appears to have subconsciously frightened me into doing stuff today.
