vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 19, 2019 17:42:08 GMT
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The old waxstat housing is made of poor quality material and I've had 2 fail. The first one a piece fell off because the top had corroded away, I lost almost all my coolant on the motorway and had to stop at a supermarket and buy a lot of water to get home with. The second one also stopped sealing and I had to seal it up with some epoxy putty recently. Even though I have a good replacement, it too shows signs of corrosion so it's only a matter of time before that dissolves too. Rather than having a ticking time bomb like that, I decided to eliminate it and put newer, better quality components in. There's no direct replacement available and, to my knowledge, nobody else has tried to do this so I've been having to learn what will and won't work.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,316
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Nov 19, 2019 17:52:52 GMT
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When you have time, or when you’re finally in Kent, get one of those scrap housings to me and we’ll see what can be engineered as a replacement.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Nov 19, 2019 18:04:40 GMT
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The old waxstat housing is made of poor quality material and I've had 2 fail. The first one a piece fell off because the top had corroded away, I lost almost all my coolant on the motorway and had to stop at a supermarket and buy a lot of water to get home with. The second one also stopped sealing and I had to seal it up with some epoxy putty recently. Even though I have a good replacement, it too shows signs of corrosion so it's only a matter of time before that dissolves too. Rather than having a ticking time bomb like that, I decided to eliminate it and put newer, better quality components in. There's no direct replacement available and, to my knowledge, nobody else has tried to do this so I've been having to learn what will and won't work. I understand now! that's an odd set up isn't it!
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,555
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Why are you resorting to what to me seems like a bodge, when decent solutions are readily available? I understand your desire to change the thermostat housing given your explanation on the original setup. But pushing the thermostat into the hose and clamping it with a jubilee clip?? It will probably work, but it can't be a good solution long term and the edge of the thermostat over time will probably damage the hose internally.
Why not use an aftermarket in line thermostat housing or a thermostat with integral housing. On my BOB engine the thermostat has no separate housing, it is integral to the thermostat. If the stat is broken you replace it with its housing. Mine has 3 ports, but a quick google shows them in two ports and many diameters at that as well. There are also housings that accept a standard thermostat (that is therefore interchangeable/replaceable that go in line.
So it seems like you have at least two better solutions to choose from in this case. On my car I would not be happy with your currently proposed solution.
But then again, it IS your car not mine. So do as you please.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,317
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Why are you resorting to what to me seems like a bodge, when decent solutions are readily available? I understand your desire to change the thermostat housing given your explanation on the original setup. But pushing the thermostat into the hose and clamping it with a jubilee clip?? It will probably work, but it can't be a good solution long term and the edge of the thermostat over time will probably damage the hose internally. Why not use an aftermarket in line thermostat housing or a thermostat with integral housing. On my BOB engine the thermostat has no separate housing, it is integral to the thermostat. If the stat is broken you replace it with its housing. Mine has 3 ports, but a quick google shows them in two ports and many diameters at that as well. There are also housings that accept a standard thermostat (that is therefore interchangeable/replaceable that go in line. So it seems like you have at least two better solutions to choose from in this case. On my car I would not be happy with your currently proposed solution. But then again, it IS your car not mine. So do as you please. As far as I remember reading it’s a thermostat that’s designed to be pushed into a hose from a Renault. I’m sure Vulg will correct me if I’m wrong..
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,555
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Nov 20, 2019 11:14:07 GMT
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Why are you resorting to what to me seems like a bodge, when decent solutions are readily available? I understand your desire to change the thermostat housing given your explanation on the original setup. But pushing the thermostat into the hose and clamping it with a jubilee clip?? It will probably work, but it can't be a good solution long term and the edge of the thermostat over time will probably damage the hose internally. Why not use an aftermarket in line thermostat housing or a thermostat with integral housing. On my BOB engine the thermostat has no separate housing, it is integral to the thermostat. If the stat is broken you replace it with its housing. Mine has 3 ports, but a quick google shows them in two ports and many diameters at that as well. There are also housings that accept a standard thermostat (that is therefore interchangeable/replaceable that go in line. So it seems like you have at least two better solutions to choose from in this case. On my car I would not be happy with your currently proposed solution. But then again, it IS your car not mine. So do as you please. As far as I remember reading it’s a thermostat that’s designed to be pushed into a hose from a Renault. I’m sure Vulg will correct me if I’m wrong.. In that case I've not openend my big mouth... I must have missed that entirely. Although I still would have thought that the hose it should go into in the Renault would have a step or edge or anything in it to positively locate it. Come to think of it, I still stand by my post. I'd have gone for either one of the solutions I proposed.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 15:33:25 GMT
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Yeah, it's a Renault 5 style in-hose thermostat purely because I was having such difficulty in sourcing an affordable in-line thermostat housing in the UK, and the thermostat I'm using as no sharp edges that might damage the hose. It's easy to miss stuff, this whole mess has been going on far too long. --- Tested the battery and it's holding a healthy amount of voltage and hasn't dropped overnight, so that's good, battery ruled out of the potential issue equation. I then used darrenh 's instructions here forum.retro-rides.org/post/2257563 to test the glowplugs and all of them read 000 on the multimeter, which I assume is what we want. I also read the output for voltage which is 9.5-8.5 on the glowplugs when they're on though I'm not sure if that actually means anything. The glowplug timer relay is working I think, I tested this by testing the voltage on the glowplugs and listening for the relay going off, when it did the voltage disappeared. I assume that means the relay is providing power to the glowplugs for the set period and then not when they've heated up, which is what we want. Good. Progress. Battery, glowplug relay, and glowplugs seemingly ruled out of the equation. I put the glowplugs back in, dropped three of the wire retaining nuts and couldn't find them because the engine ate them, was very glad I put the ones from the old glowplugs in the ashtray as a result, and put it all back together. Car started fine. Whut? Okay, look at the engine and see what's different. Can you see what I forgot to reinstall? Maybe this picture will help. For some reason, the cold air pipe makes it harder for the car to start and I have no idea why. I've checked the hose and the plastic elbow and both are completely clear of blockages or damage but, reliably, if I remove that hose the car starts better and if I fit it, the car has a harder time of starting and that makes no sense I can think of. I've left the hose in the boot for now and we'll see if it was coincidental or if that's actually the fix, if it is the fix then great but I'm a bit puzzled by that one. On the Princess things have also been progressing, though it feels very much like two steps forward and one back. For some reason I don't understand, the number plate system used by parts suppliers is bringing this car up as a 2.2, which it isn't, so trying to find the relevant part and part number is proving difficult. The supplier that did have one told me it was broken and could they have my reg to try and find an alternative stock. This was fine until my details didn't match up with their details and then they wanted a list of details as long as my arm, including things like which are the driven wheels and what the VIN number is. I've done this dance before. Basically they don't have the part and they'll take loads of details to in the end tell me they can't get it. The reason for ordering another sender was my own stupidity when I managed to order a pair of 2.2 senders that look the same as the 1.7/2.0 sender, but are much larger. But seriously, try putting GBT563W into a parts site and you'll see it comes up with the 2.2 engine, which mine has never been, it comes up as a hatchback instead of a saloon a lot too, and I've had that result in a supplier refusing to supply a part. Fun times. Anyway, the one thing that was correct that did arrive was the new Beru spark plugs. I spent a bit more, I didn't really need to, I just wanted to go with something that should be that little bit nicer than the usual NGK stuff I put in (which is perfectly fine too) to try and iron out any running niggles I might have. I'm not sure they'll make any difference at all in reality and I've kept the old NGKs I took out because there's nothing inherently wrong with them and it's good to have emergency spares just in case. I then reinstalled the starter motor, it's bracket, and the oil fill tube. I think they look much nicer now they're painted to match everything else. Now I just have to wait on the hoses arriving to finish that, a new sump plug washer since it turns out I don't have one the correct size in stock, and a new temperature sender that's actually correct. It's all a bit frustrating at the moment.
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Last Edit: Nov 20, 2019 15:34:06 GMT by vulgalour
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Nov 20, 2019 16:19:24 GMT
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I would suggest finding the registration of a car that does have the right engine on "their system" and keeping hold of it every time they ask - even if it's a Sherpa or a Marina/Ital?
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 16:30:06 GMT
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Yes, but why should I have to? Their system is wrong, why should it be my responsibility as the consumer to do this convoluted dance to buy things from them? It's pretty tiresome arguing the point about parts being incorrect when you're met with a wall of "computer says no" from someone who doesn't really give a fig about my need for a £5-10 part to sort out my car.
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Nov 20, 2019 16:52:30 GMT
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Try these part numbers for the sender, 52920, TT13, GTR128, WW711
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Nov 20, 2019 16:55:29 GMT
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Not suggesting in any way that the engine is sub par, however, since diesel engines rely on compressing air to heat it up above the auto ignition point of diesel, when it's injected, potentially your engine is not compressing it enough. Or rather a small deficiency exasperated by cold ambients
Theory crafting why the removed intake hose is helping. well it would reduce pumping losses slightly (more air in cylinders) plus the air is now sucking from the engine bay, rather than outside, due to thermal mass could be marginally warmer in the bay
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Nov 20, 2019 17:04:25 GMT
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Yes, but why should I have to? Their system is wrong, why should it be my responsibility as the consumer to do this convoluted dance to buy things from them? It's pretty tiresome arguing the point about parts being incorrect when you're met with a wall of "computer says no" from someone who doesn't really give a fig about my need for a £5-10 part to sort out my car. You shouldn't, but as someone who's generally had low-volume cars or ones with a lot of non-standard parts over the years, I've got used to it where you have 2 choices - go to a marque specialist (I'd assume Rimmers for anything BL?), or go it alone. I gave up on most computerised systems having the right information many years ago if it's over 10-15 years old. if they insist on a registration number, just tell them it's not registered in the UK - and if they can't find your part then, they aren't worth your business IMHO.
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Nov 20, 2019 17:37:22 GMT
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I'd be looking for the part no stamped into the sender - doing a google search & ordering that way.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 17:54:16 GMT
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Do you know what, it's time for a big fat thank you to everyone that's been contributing lately. There's been some genuinely helpful stuff in the last few pages that have kept me sane while I've had this super irritating issues.
Things like the list of parts numbers above, which I can't get off the sender because when the sender sheared, the bit with the part number on pinged off into the abyss, never to be seen again.
We'll get there, eventually. Just got to keep on keeping on.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 18:05:33 GMT
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Nov 20, 2019 18:21:59 GMT
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hi there
i think this is the one you want ? ebay item 333395615167
cheers - mike
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 18:35:34 GMT
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That's the one that's 'broken'. I've already ordered and been refunded on that listing. The majority of listings on eBay for that part filter back to that seller in one way or another, so there's not as many on the site as it looks. Standard practice, one supplier and lots of vendors with listings that are out of date.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:47:16 GMT
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 20, 2019 21:56:36 GMT
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I did not know that. That makes things a whole lot easier.
Smol update!
I had to move the BX, it's below freezing and the car is likewise quite cold. Am I going to experience the eternal churn of disappointment? Nope! Double cycle of the glowplugs, a little bit of throttle to help it along and boom, car started more willingly than it has on milder days since the problem appeared. Perhaps it wasn't coincidental with that cold air intake pipe then.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Nov 21, 2019 13:40:06 GMT
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Parts delivery! We're getting the windows done today so I was glad of the pipes arriving so I had something to do. Stealing a bit of time while workmen are on lunch, then I have to turn the computer off because noise, mess, etc. in the same room as the computer. I digress. With all the lovely new pipes I could set to installing. For the thermostat, I'm sticking it as close to the head as I can, temperature pick up in pretty much the same place as it was on the original waxstat. Soak the end of the hose in a bit of hot water in a mug so it goes over that rolled edge of the thermostat and then push it into place by pushing down against that custom pipe that was installed in place of the old waxstat housing. Then remove it and trim the elbow down shorter because it was too tall. You also have to put the jubilee in before the hose because there isn't enough clearance to thread the clamp on after the hose because of the casing around one of the cambox bolts. It is a very tight fit. Report post Posted 7 minutes ago Parts delivery! We're getting the windows done today so I was glad of the pipes arriving so I had something to do. Stealing a bit of time while workmen are on lunch, then I have to turn the computer off because noise, mess, etc. in the same room as the computer. I digress. With all the lovely new pipes I could set to installing. For the thermostat, I'm sticking it as close to the head as I can, temperature pick up in pretty much the same place as it was on the original waxstat. 201911-28.thumb.jpg.cbc387d3920fe8176650290b820912e6.jpg Soak the end of the hose in a bit of hot water in a mug so it goes over that rolled edge of the thermostat and then push it into place by pushing down against that custom pipe that was installed in place of the old waxstat housing. 201911-29.thumb.jpg.9f4d95b0d8707cb84899ec009fefdc38.jpg Then remove it and trim the elbow down shorter because it was too tall. You also have to put the jubilee in before the hose because there isn't enough clearance to thread the clamp on after the hose because of the casing around one of the cambox bolts. It is a very tight fit. 201911-32.thumb.jpg.e206d1c1d31aaed7333e31b1bd4bf918.jpg After that, go through and install the various bits of pipe and clamps in the relevant places and you're looking somewhat close to sorted. The filler cap *just* clears the bonnet, and on the first fit I had a kink in the long straight I didn't like. Moving the metal elbow out a bit solved that. It's not quite as elegant as I'd hope for a solution. It should work satisfactorily and doesn't look really any worse than the factory arrangement. Now I'm just waiting on the sump plug washers and another temperature sender to arrive so I can get fluids in and try and start the car.
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