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Sept 11, 2016 16:19:29 GMT
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Oh look, it's that loser with the chopped up PrincessThis is something that's been on my mind just lately, I've been keeping it to myself. So permit me, if you will, a bit of a digression and some thoughts on the other side of a project like this. I try, very hard, to be positive at all times with this project. Sometimes I don't manage it, I've had my fair share of wobbles over the last couple of years, several house moves and funerals and other life uncertainties do that. So I'm going to share some of the negative aspects because I realise I can be a little short with people when they express an opinion and may seem to be over reacting. Now, on the internet, particularly on my build diaries, I have people assume I'm in my late teens or early twenties. This is based seemingly on my apparent lack of skills and my enthusiasm for what I'm building. I'm actually in my mid-thirties but my car mindset and enthusiasm has remained pretty much the same since I was too young to see over the steering wheel. I adore kustoms, led sleds and some hot rods. I'm inspired, to this day, by Ed Roth, Gene Winfield, numerous nameless van builders of the 70s, back street garage builders of the 80s and any number of anonymous enthusiasts who have built special bits of automobilia on any sort of budget. The things I could build with a greater budget, or more time... Thing is, the online and real world presence of these particular scenes have never been very welcoming to me. Retro Rides is the only modified vehicle forum that has been at all welcoming to my somewhat eclectic and sometimes downright strange taste in vehicles and it's a big reason I stick around. The Hot Rod and Kustom scene I so admire don't want me, or my opinions, or my cars, that's been made abundantly clear over the years so I steer away from them and their forums, I make friends with individuals that get it rather than those with deep pockets that don't. So that's my first big disappointment. The very group I want to be part of doesn't want me, because I'm too poor and weird. That sucks. I could have fitted in by buying a different car, say a Morris Minor perhaps, and doing it by numbers - satin black paint, red wheels, chrome tat, etc. - and then I'd be welcomed into their club. I wouldn't be happy with that though, there's no point being part of a group if you have to pretend to be someone else, that's just daft. The other thing is people in the real world. You really would not believe how RUDE people are! If I'm out in the Princess trundling around and it's working fine I get compliments from those that owned one, wide eye stares from kids that have no idea what it is and generally a good vibe. The moment I open the bonnet it all changes. I could just be opening the bonnet to fill up the screen wash and you can feel the derision coming. The people that have to wander over and make snide remarks about your rubbish car. While it's been in the unit and I've been working on it things have been worse, utter strangers will happily tell me how f*cked my car is. Why are you bothering with that old heap? They were curse word when they were new, nothing's changed! What've you done that to it for? You're wasting your time. It's gets to you. Normally I could put up with it, I own undesireable cars partly because it's what I like, mostly because it's what I can afford. I look after them as best I'm able and they're the closest thing to children I expect I'll ever have. It's just it gets tiring, the constant nagging and abuse and downright unpleasantness. You begin to question everything you do. I know this problem isn't restricted to owning a Princess, I know it happens with all cars, all projects, but for some reason with the Princess people are particularly nasty about it. An opinion is one thing, some of the things people say are an entirely different thing, it's just abuse. That's why sometimes I have wanted to pack it all in and call it quits. I'm glad I haven't, I get excited every time I look at the car. I've made this happen, it's my baby and I've built it. I don't care, at my core, that other people are OFFENDED by it, part of me gets an adolescent glee out of that! Which is why I try my best to focus on what I'm doing, to look ahead, to post on the forums for those gems of positivity that are offered. Not to mention the advice, help and useful information that is so often provided! The upshot of getting all this abuse is that I'm less inclined to give it out. I'm more tolerant of what other people build, of the styles they choose to adopt and what they are saying to the world about themselves. Often you get the criticism on here that we're not allowed to say bad things but from what I've been experiencing personally it can be a relief to post somewhere that people will express concerns but won't just pile insults on my work. This diary (and the others I keep on other forums) helps keep me motivated, has kept me on track for the past couple of years even through my wobbles. I hope this diary has another purpose too. When I started out I wanted people to see that building a project car is hard but ultimately rewarding. I wanted people to see the ups and downs, the good stuff and the bad. Too often you see a thread where it's "here's my car, I spent some money, it's ace now" which totally glosses over how hard it was to save up the cash, how much research they did into the parts they wanted, what a chore the car might have been to source and all that. There's more to modifying than bolting shorter springs and fancy wheels on. So a big thank you to those that do support me in my endeavours. A big apology to those I might have offended by being, well, me. Finally, a big fat up yours to anyone that thinks that telling me my car is sh!t is going to ever achieve anything. Just to make you feel better,i'm jealous of you! I've not got the room for a 'project',nor have i had the time or finances either. Thats why i love it here in Retro Rides, i get to to live out my ideas vicariously through everyones projects on here. Ok i might not like a particulay car or style,but i can appreciate the skills that have made it happen, ( except @johnnybravo,he's to clever for his own good, and i have a special kind of jealousy reserved for him!) And now i've got my back problem,the chances of ever starting a project are now zero. ( in fact even getting in and out of a car now is awkward,hence have a 4x4, no bending to get in!) Anyhow,enough of this emotional stuff,crack on! So keep at it, waiting to see what you do next!
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Sept 11, 2016 16:56:51 GMT
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I'll add my bit, the NSRA are very blinkered, but there are plenty of more enlightened people out there. I admit that a Princess would not be my first choice of project, but your mods have actually worked, I did not think they would at first so I'm pleasantly surprised that you have managed what BL did not. Sad to hear of the nasty comment's though the 'what are you bothering with that old heap' is par for the course by people who cant even change a lightbulb.
Ignore the negatives, I get negative comments about mine as well!
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Sept 11, 2016 19:23:54 GMT
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Your car, your rules. March to your own drum beat hold your head up, and f*** them. Nothing hurts a hater more than no reaction. A few weeks ago at a show I got a guy in an E type tell me my wheels were too small, my tyres too low profile and he didn't like the stance. I asked him which wheels he would prefer as I have 4 sets, and 3 different suspension settings, it was how I felt that morning, so Jog on. He did.
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Last Edit: Sept 11, 2016 19:27:12 GMT by accord83
74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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gt
Part of things
Posts: 136
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Sept 11, 2016 22:24:12 GMT
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who cares what anyone else thinks they are your cars and you are free to do what you like with them ,lets face it the average man in the street thinks a great car is some kind of dull and boring family car that they have on tick and is depreciating quicker than they can pay if off how dull is that. i like ready your post so keep at it please.
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Last Edit: Sept 11, 2016 22:24:30 GMT by gt
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,951
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Sept 12, 2016 6:10:28 GMT
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At the Goodwood revival yesterday and was pleasantly surprised at the number of Renault 4, 6 and Ami's that were on the stands.(No pictures phone full) Looks like you are not alone in your eclectic taste.... Princess looks good, keep at it. To quote the 'kids' Haters gona Hate.... P.
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Sept 12, 2016 8:48:49 GMT
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My thinking is that if you are not pi$$ing at least one person off, you are wasting a golden opportunity. Your project, do it the way you want to do it. If, at a later date it doesn't pan out, learn from your mistake and carry on. Not originally something that blows my hair back, but I can appreciate the amount of time and dedication it takes, made all the harder if you are surrounded by naysayers.
Crack on..... Good job.
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
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Sept 12, 2016 8:53:52 GMT
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Your story hits a familiar note with me. I do this journal thing for the same reasons you do. I've experienced the same ups and downs during the build you have (both build technical and personal). And I've even heard plenty of times the same derogatory remarks about my vehicle choice, my choices in modifications and the lot.
As you say RR is pretty good in that respect. Most people here just enjoy the old clunkers and can value and appreciate the work put into them. Believe me when I say a lot of other channels like facebook groups or enthusiast sites totally miss the point. And as you say in person as well. I've been working in a body shop for 3 or 4 years of this build. You won't believe how many times I was working on my rust bucket trying to make it into a show stopper (not even just a show car lol) when visitors would just go on and on about what was wrong with me, the vehicle or my choices in modding it. Those people p... me off big time.
Sometimes there's the actual enthusiast who will see things your way.
But, if there is one thing I learned from all that, it's once again that I built my car for ME to MY liking.... And that is what really matters. Try and keep that in your head. As long as you like what you're doing it's all good!!
There will always be haters and lovers. Some hate out of jealousy (of your skills, budget, determination or simply your blue eyes) and I was going to say some because you're doing what they were afraid of ever starting, but when thinking about this I guess that still boils down to jealousy in some shape or form...
Anyway... your choice of car or mine for that matter may not be to everyones liking. They may not see the value in them you and I do and that's fine. It would be nice if some could be a little more subtle about it, yes. But I for one enjoy your trials and tribulations...
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 12, 2016 9:17:26 GMT
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I really like the Princess and Ambassador. They have sharp individual styling. I also like the TR7 for much the same reason. They aren't generally loved by none-car types as they appear to have been conditioned into thinking that unless it's an MGB or an E-type then it's just an old banger.
I sometimes ask them what great deal they got on their finance for their new car (assuming they'll actually own it as that is often not the case these days) and then shoot them down with the total purchase price of my individual old car, the total lack of depreciation and the real world running costs that obviously aren't that far off their own fuel bills only minus the monthly repayments and the servicing costs to keep the history up to date.
Keep building, there are plenty of us who share the same vision, hence the size and popularity of this forum.
Looking forward to the next instalment.
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Last Edit: Sept 12, 2016 9:18:43 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Sept 12, 2016 11:11:31 GMT
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As the owner of a modified TR7V8 for the best part of 25 years I have been through the whole cycle of being unwelcome at classic events to now seemingly getting more recognition particularly amongst younger people.
As for your Princess the low value means if you hadn't taken it on it probably would have ended up broken for parts (people used to scrap them just for the brake calipers!) or banger raced, as long as it is safe (this is the only time I would ever suggest someone changes something) do what you like with it and ignore any negative comments unfortunately there are always those who prefer to moan rather than do.
Anyway, it looks good to me , has got me wondering what a similar pair of lights would look like on the rear of the TR. (I've never really liked the TR7 rear end)
Kevin
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 12, 2016 11:54:58 GMT
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has got me wondering what a similar pair of lights would look like on the rear of the TR. (I've never really liked the TR7 rear end) Kevin I'm thinking the same for the rear lights on my Scimitar SE5 Though perhaps a bit smaller. See, your Princesses' influence is already spreading!
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Sept 12, 2016 16:02:45 GMT
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Why do people 'hate' to use a modern phrase?
Obviously they don't "get" what we all do, but why vocalise it to peoples faces? I think its total lack of imagination and understanding, they have no imagination to ever do something individual at all and no understanding how rude they are to express it to the owners face.
They are to be pitied rather than be angry at, how dull and grey must their worlds be?
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Sept 12, 2016 16:22:35 GMT
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Why do people 'hate' to use a modern phrase? Obviously they don't "get" what we all do, but why vocalise it to peoples faces? I think its total lack of imagination and understanding, they have no imagination to ever do something individual at all and no understanding how rude they are to express it to the owners face. They are to be pitied rather than be angry at, how dull and grey must their worlds be? I think its the 'image of self' nowadays,everyone has to be better thsn everyone else ..... Well they think they are anyway ..... I've found you had to develop a thick skin, but that only comes over time. It helps that i'm over 6ft and 'thickset' ...... ( aka Fat bloke nowadays) so i can give the appearance of not being intimidated. Anyway .... Many yrs ago a saw an Austin Ambassador in black,with what appeared to be minilite style wheels, i thought at the time,why?,its an Ambassador ....... Now i look back and think it looked quite smart,i was a yoof then .........how times have changed!
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Sept 12, 2016 18:06:15 GMT
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It's good that you got your mojo back - your progress updates are always worth reading. Keep the faith Apologies if any of my past posts hit a raw nerve, that was very much not the intention! When I drive anything odd I get 1 of 3 reactions - "like it" / "love it", "I remember..." etc "why bother with that heap" etc or nothing at all from folk who just don't notice cars One of the very few big negatives I had was earlier this year when a chap walked over just to say "I had one of these when they were new - had to scrap it after 3 years - they rust worse than anything else around". Take your pick - is it jealousy, a miserable soul, got out of wrong side of bed, or just somebody with no life who is hoping for a reaction? Do your own thing and enjoy doing it - who cares what total strangers think?
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,280
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Sept 12, 2016 19:35:42 GMT
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Nobody that has commented here is the reason for my recent post. It's something that had been bubbling away for about a year and I just got to a point where I felt I had to write it down. I'm glad I did, not only did I feel better for it but some really good replies have also popped up! Folks posting in here regularly do tend to be a big motivator, I might be grumpy when they're right and I don't want them to be, but I never get the impression that anyone wants to do anything other than help and keep me going. So to all of you that make comments, no matter how small or how involved, and those of you that might just hit the like button, have a big thanks and a virtual bun/bevvy from me. If it weren't for you and people like you I'm pretty sure I'd've given up ages ago! stevietuck : I appreciate the positive vibes Consider your Pug thread bookmarked so I can wade through it later, gonna take me a while @automatik: I don't think you've ever offended me, or set me off on a rant, it was just coincidental timing. You're definitely one of the good guys here. optimusprime : Never say never! A project can be on any scale and sometimes you can even con... er... persuade friends and relatives into helping out. Truthfully though, back problems suck massively, it's one of my big fears as it's hereditary in my family and somehow I've mostly avoided the curse so far. blackpopracing : Another good guy. You do wind me up sometimes but only because you're always right:P You and your experience and skills. So I try not to contradict info you provide, it doesn't do me any good. accord83 : You'll like the update coming soon, I made use of that book you sent me! And meh, people with E-types, what do they know? They just have an expensive unreliable Capri gt : thank you paul Y: I like when you pop up in the thread, partly because I like the car in your avatar. @johnnybravo : I might have to steal that first sentence and use it. Thank you for the support, and for getting it. eurogranada : I feel your pain. Your thread is just an epic of how to build something really, really nice and have constant annoying problems all throughout the entire process! I take my hat off to your perseverance, you are an inspiration. Smiler : Another good guy, popping up with nice things to say and support when I'm wobbling a bit on the projects. kevins : I've been told even by people in the owners club that I shouldn't have bothered with the car it's so bad. They were right too, it was in terrible condition XD. TR is quite small, perhaps Consul Capri/Consul Classic lights would work? They tend to not be too pricey. nomad : Absolutely a good guy, and one who gets it. I still have a lot of love for your green estate, it's a wonderful thing and I hope you never make it too nice. So... to pull us back on topic (not that I'm not enjoying this diversion), I have a Renault update for you in a moment.
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Last Edit: Sept 12, 2016 19:39:29 GMT by vulgalour
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,280
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Sept 12, 2016 19:39:54 GMT
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Today I finally got chance and was motivated enough to pull the engine out of the Renault and get to the bottom of this problem. Originally I had wanted to get the sump off with the engine in the car, this was thwarted by the chassis blocking access to the sump bolts. This engine is horrible to work on when it's in the car. So I determined to haul it out, which is a big horrible job. I just knuckled down and got on with it and, amazingly, just an hour and a half later I'd managed to do it completely solo. I didn't even remove the face, but I will be when I put the engine back in because it's an absolute war getting the engine and box out with the face attached. I found I could leave a lot of things attached which sped up the job quite a bit and will make reinstalling the engine and gearbox that much easier. You can see the flange on the chassis rails which obscures access to the sump bolts here too. The anti-roll bar also prevents you from dropping the sump that far even if you could unbolt it. Horrible. I cheated with the driveshafts. I need to replace some of the balljoint bolts because, as highlighted previously, I'd put them in 'upside down'. That meant that a couple of the lower ones got bent out of shape and were tricky to remove, unlike the top ones which were unaffected but could do with being flipped around. Not a big deal. So that I didn't have to disconnect and drain the brake system again I propped the hubs up on a pair of spare axle stands to take the stress off the flexible hose. With the engine and gearbox wheeled indoors I just beat the weather turning. I didn't have a huge amount of time, thankfully I did have a checklist of possible problem areas: Starter motor - removed and found to be working perfectly fine, as well it ought considering it's only just been reconditioned. This was not locking the flywheel and eliminated as a possible problem. Gearbox - there was a concern the layshaft could have got stuck. Happily this too was ruled out as it turns freely by hand. I can't say anything about the condition of the gearbox beyond that as it's an unknown quantity. Clutch - no problems apparent. Clutch fork is still operating the release bearing. None of the visible components have any problems apparent. At each stage we tested to see if the crankshaft would turn and it wouldn't so we got to the point that the sump was removed for inspection. First thing was to inspect the contents of the sump. Unsurprisingly there's a little bit of sludge that must have been pumped out of the nooks I couldn't get into but no sparklies or chunks of metal or anything that might cause any alarm. There was what looked like grit at first, you can see some in the reflection, but if you squidge it with your finger it's just little blobs of sludge. The oil in the car, which is brand new, is still fairly opaque with just some discolouration from the muck that's still floating around. Not a problem because this oil is only put in to flush the engine through anyway, it's just doing its job. That only left one area, which was the bearings themselves. Happily, access is really easy to all this. I'm doing it laid on its side rather than on the engine stand as to get the engine to bolt on to the engine stand means removing the clutch and I don't want to do that. This way works just fine. I was very fortunate in that Accord83 on the Retro Rides forum very kindly provided a Renault 6 workshop manual which has all the information I'll ever need including the torque settings for the bearing caps. Here's the thing, I'd set this and the timing according to the instructions in the Haynes manual and not only was the timing wrong but the bearing caps were all torqued up too tight. Doing things by the book is fine, providing the book you're using is actually any good. I'd already run out of time by this point but I hung on for a few minutes resetting the caps, checking the bearing shells and guess what? Now the engine turns by hand, like it should. Here's where I feel a bit unsure about putting the engine back in the car because last time it went in I as sure the engine turned over by hand, it was stiff but it turned, and then when all the oil got circulated it stopped being able to be turned by hand. This time it turns very smoothly and very freely by hand, everything is well oiled and I'm hoping it doesn't tighten up on me when it goes back in the car. If I can find some way of bench testing it before refitting it I will. I'll set the timing and build everything up while it's out of the car, just like I did last time, but this time I'll refer to the new Workshop Manual and probably put the Haynes book in the bin where it belongs.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 12, 2016 20:38:42 GMT
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I know nothing of these engines so could well be wrong but if the engine has freed up to rotate just by slackening the bearing caps it suggests that they where exerting a clamping force on the crank. Have the bearing shells been replaced? I'm wondering if it's had undersized shells for a reground crank fitted whilst the crank is still standard size?
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Last Edit: Sept 12, 2016 20:39:29 GMT by Smiler
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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Sept 12, 2016 21:11:05 GMT
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I would check the bearings very carefully, for burrs, not seating in the notches and any dirt or debris behind them,.
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Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
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Sept 12, 2016 21:17:32 GMT
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Erm, yeah, start with that first...
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www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,280
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Sept 12, 2016 21:25:19 GMT
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Big end bearings are what was adjusted... I seem to be having trouble remembering the names for all the bits, which is why I'm not a professional mechanic I'm sure! All I did was back them all off and re-torque to the proper 25lb/ft rating (I think, trying to go from memory with that one, the Haynes had 35lb/ft listed) in the workshop manual and they're all smooth running now. They would turn on the starter previously when the engine was in the car but were too tight to go by hand.
This is my first full engine strip down and rebuild so I don't know all the terms and whatnot. My understanding is that I'd effectively clamped the big ends too tightly and that the starter motor had the grunt to move things but I didn't. If I'd continued to run it like that I expect I would have worn the bearing shells out very quickly, possibly caused other wear issues and ended up with a big job to fix it all. In a way, it's lucky the timing was wrong so I had to go in and reset it all as it means I've sorted the bearing issue out too.
I should, I reckon, put new bearings in if I intend to put a lot of miles on this car, daily driver style. However, this car is only going to be doing maybe 20 miles a week when it isn't raining pottering around town so the ones that are in should do me for a while yet. In theory. I know it only takes me an hour and a half to get the engine out so...
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Last Edit: Sept 12, 2016 21:28:26 GMT by vulgalour
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,280
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Sept 12, 2016 21:27:13 GMT
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Kevins: Already done that. No burrs, no dirt, no iron filings or shavings. Everything was nice and clean and sitting in its notches. I'm pretty sure the problem is just that I tightened some nuts too far. My brother has more engine rebuild experience than I have and he was very sceptically looking at all the bits and pieces and surprised there was no signs of anything amiss beyond the too-tight-nuts.
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