vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Thank you I've been watching some videos on veneering and a lot of them use equipment and skills I simply don't have. A few, however, have been aimed at the novice on a budget so my theory is thus: - clean and smooth the original panel and make any repairs as required. - key the surface to help the glue bond - lay the original piece on your veneer - paper back in my case, apparently easier to work with for this sort of job at my skill level - and mark out the pattern - take your time to align the veneer exactly how you want it before cutting the veneer slightly oversized - glue the relevant surfaces - traditional white wood glue is what I got for this - and take time to align the veneer - use a hard foam roller to squidge any trapped air out - place the piece face down on a soft cloth on a flat surface, and then apply plenty of weight to the back. This is in part because I don't actually have clamps or a vacuum bag, and in part because the holes in the piece would make clamping it evenly very difficult. As far as I'm aware, plenty of weight - probably clean bricks and concrete slabs, since that's what I've got - works the same way as clamps or vacuum - when the glue has dried, use a hand file to carefully trim the excess veneer back to the desired shape. I'm dreading this bit, as it happens, because I'm expecting it to take a very long time to do well and I'm expecting it to chip as I file no matter how careful I am - finally, seal with a suitable varnish. I'll be using a satin wood varnish which I've been using on a cabinet I'm restoring, the finish is just shiny enough to look nice, but not so shiny it will have annoying reflections and glare. If it goes well then that will be the interior as finished as it needs to be. There's more I could do, of course, the steering wheel would benefit from a retrim for example and I've been very tempted to buy a similar sized wooden rimmed wheel because they feel so nice to use, but we shall see.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 2,006
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Instead of using files, you could use different grids sandpaper glued to wooden paint stirrers, works a treat.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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I agree with Melle that using sandpaper is a better option. I start with a Dremel with a sanding tool as pictured and then do the last bit with a piece of sandpaper Try to make sure there is sufficient pressure around the adges and holes as there the risk of coming off/ lifting is high Peter
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Last Edit: Jul 5, 2018 11:44:17 GMT by petervdv
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Thank you for the tips. Reckon I've got some of those sandpaper drums for the dremel-a-like as it happens which would help with the smaller bits that might be difficult to do with sandpaper-on-a-stick. Now, I'm off to try and do some welding before I run out of free time today. Really hope it doesn't get any hotter!
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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The temperature dropped considerably today, so that made progress lots easier. After replacing the missing corner of the inner frame, I marked out and chopped off the bottom of the outer skin where needed. Repairing the inner frame wasn't too difficult, though the repairs even when dressed back are clearly not professional. Really, I needed to dismantle the door into component pieces and spend a very long time fabricating repair sections rather than just making it solid and I genuinely haven't got the time for that. I can redo this all in the future if I desperately want to win trophies at shows, but for a daily driver it's perfectly acceptable.
Anyway, after chopping out another enormous section of the door bottom I could get a section taken from the door I'd cut up and tack that in.
Then it was just a case of spending an age putting tacks in. Then tacks between the tacks. Then tacks between those tacks. Then welding every third gap between the tacks. All in an effort to keep the temperature of the panel down. This worked, but my panel cutting skills left something to be desired so it's going to definitely need filler when I dress the welds down.
Dealt with the two minor rust holes in the odd places and then doused everything in rust converter because I didn't have time to get paint on this today.
I'm happy enough with it. I would have liked to have done a better job but I haven't the tools, skills or time to do that so I'm going to chalk this one up to experience with lessons learned for the next door I do. It's also only the second door I've repaired so I do need to cut myself a bit of slack. Next job is to dress the welds back, fill on the inside where required, and paint the inside only. I think I'm then going to fit the door to the car before foldiing the lower edge properly and before painting it so that I stand a better chance of getting a nice even gap at the bottom. Then I can drill the drain holes, paint the door, and build it back up again.
I'm fairly hopeful that realigning the wing and door and getting the paint work done will go fairly quickly and the car will very suddenly look very good all at once. I'm going to probably put off repairing the last door (rear driver's) until I've done the lower rear wing repairs and got the new rear lights in. It's all quite exciting now I've got this driver's door sorted.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Today could have gone better, it could have gone worse. I only intended to do a trial fit of the repaired door and fold the outer skin over. That progressed into dressing back the welds and getting it as close to being read for filler as I could. It's not the finest repair in the world, but it'll certainly do the job. I was going to put the drain holes in, but Mike has the only working drill with him today elsewhere. Still, the door is as finished as I can make it before the pretty stuff now and it should do the job for a few ,more years, I hope. 20180706-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180706-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Since the driver's door was off, I thought it'd be a good idea to get the wing stuck on properly. I abandoned my idea of converting it to bolt on because, honestly, I cba. When I started this I could, but now I most definitely cannot, so if it gets replaced in the future I'll be cutting it off and may consider converting to bolt on then. After much faffing and clamps and more faffing and clamps I got the wing lined up as well as it would with everything else and welded it to the cleaned up wing rail. When I've got the drill I'll put a few more welds in on here, so don't worry about how few there are for the moment. 20180706-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Got the edge that joins the valance tacked together. I'm not going factory for the join, I'm just welding it smooth and flattening it all off when I'm done. I need to get this on the ramp or stands or something to do it properly, I hadn't the patience today to do more than tack weld it in place. 20180706-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The most satisfying bit was getting the headlight surround area stable again. The gaps on both my plastic headlight surrounds have always been terrible and they're about as good as they're willing to get now. The gaps on both are the same, so it's balanced at least. There's more work to do here, things are tacked together so it's stable enough, but there's some more welding and a little trim alignment fettling to be done in the near future. 20180706-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Then there was a problem. After getting everything all tied togther nicely I closed the door and... it didn't close. The panel gap between the door and wing had gone. Now, I went around everything and adjusted things and moved things and fannied about for ages to try and figure this out until I eventually admitted defeat and decided to instead slice the back edge off the repaired wing and weld it back on about 2mm further forwards. This was difficult and stressful to do because I was too hot, I was not taking the time I should to be making a really nice job of it, and I was a bit fed up. I was also really eager to get the car back in one piece properly so I could get home for something to eat. 20180706-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I sorted out as much of it as I needed to so that the door would open and close again, tidied up, and went home which is where I took the pictures in this update. I am at least happy that the panel gaps are better, not perfect, but certainly better. This job was still easier than the last round of welding, and the next job of dressing this back and finishing the welds will be easier still. Each job will continue to get easier, because each job is progressively smaller now. I hope. 20180706-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
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ive seen that shut line adjustment before, power of retrorides good work on the door
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Ah yes, should've mentioned, it was thanks to @grumpynorthener and his tireless efforts that helped me out. He's got a bit of a head start on me with the old experience side of things though so he made it look a lot easier than it is!
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I totally understand the “too hot” and “stressful” comment. Been there before! Looks good though. Well done. I have a serious hankering for a princess bit converted to v8 and RWD using Sd1 parts.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Wouldn't it be easier to just get an SD1 that was rotten on top and a Princess that was rotten on the bottom and squash them together? For starters the rear axle is going to foul the petrol tankm and you're going to have to make the central tunnel bigger for the propshaft, and find somewhere for the gearbox to go, and the engine bay isn't long enough on the Princess to fit the full length of the V8 unless you mount it transversely... it'd be pretty awesome though. --- Welding did not happen today. Instead I stayed at home and did paint, getting regular football updates from the cheering of the neighbourhod. I gather we won. I don't care about that though, I care about getting paint on this door so I can fit it to the car and have a window that actually opens. 20180707-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I didn't do any filler work on this at all as the bits that are visible are going to be easier to do the filler work on the car and the bits that aren't visible, I'm not putting filler on. There is literally no point putting filler on bits of this car you cannot see, so I will not waste my time on it. At least not this year. 20180707-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180707-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Amusingly, I now have the drill but both times I've gone out today I've forgotten to get the drill bits (only got masonry ones here) for putting the mirror and drain holes in, and have also forgotten to get the door glass since I can't use the one in the orange door because of rotted out window guides. That's okay, it's the weekend and a scorcher, so it gives the fresh paint a bit of time to harden before I start bashing chunks out of it fitting the door back to the car. No welding happened either, it was almost too hot to be painting in the shade and it's definitely been too hot to be driving a car with no air conditioning and a window that you can't open. Nearly there now though. I'm excited about how much better the car is going to look in a couple of days. 20180707-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Trouble with sharing tools is you sometimes have to put jobs off, that's why I haven't put the repaired door on the car today. Instead, I waited until it was cooler and headed over to the unit to see what jobs I could finish off. There was an incident with weld splatter going down my ear so that made me down tools a bit early. Even so, I got plenty of little fiddly jobs done. Jobs like the front wing seam I hadn't finished (this was actually the last job, doing the underside is when I got the inside of my ear welded). There's a bit more to do on this, I have to let in a small 2"x4" patch where the wing is a bit thin underneath but I'll do that on the lift when it's free to avoid ear-weld interface. 20180708-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Flattened off the welds on the other end of the wing and did a little trimming at the bottom so it follows the line of the sill better. The panel gap disappears at the bottom as the bottom of the wing isn't actually secured yet, I need the drill and suitable drill bits so I can get that attached with bolts or weld and then the gap will pull something like again. 20180708-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The biggest job was doing the rear lower quarter section. My repair piece is a little crude, I couldn't get my head around the bit of the panel where the curve of the wing meets the flare of the arch so I got it as close as I could and I'll profile with a small amount of filler. Also welded up the bumper hole which will be on the receiving end of some filler as well. There's a small piece of arch to replace here too, something I can do later since it needs thinking about for the best approach. I also need the car up in the air a bit so I can do the join between the outer and inner wing underneath the car that I couldn't easily get to today. 20180708-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr There's very little welding to go now: - driver's rear arch return - passenger's rear wing lower corner - new rear light buckets - rear window surround repairs - upper C pillar trim holes (6 of, easy job) - rear driver's door lower corner repair It all feels a lot more managable and definitely more in the realm of tinkering than slogging now, so I'm starting to really enjoy myself.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Got a little further today. I've been very patient about getting a pair of Austin A30 sidelights for an idea I've had for ages which I nicked from the Citroen DS of old. High level indicators. 20180709-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180709-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr They're only designed to be supplementary at a level more common for modern drivers. The high level brake light made quite a difference so high level indicators felt sensible. I wanted something that would blend into the rest of the car and options were very limited. I didn't want to go modern and had tried a few things before settling on these. The only issue was the price, with pairs often going for £50+ which is frankly insane. My pair cost me about a tenner It took a while to find a spot I liked them, I wanted them to be fairly invisible, even though they're a substantial chunk of chrome, and to flow from the line of the gutter as much as possible. This was the best location for them to go so that everything could be installed. I still need to add some grommets/rubber washers to prevent water ingress, I just have to wait for some of the correct size to arrive. Inside the car you can access the nut on the back by simply popping the interior C pillar trims off and the wires can run straight down into the boot since it's open from the gutter all the way to the bottom of the wing. Routing the wires is really easy with lots of space to work in. 20180709-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180709-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr It's been pleasantly overcast and cool today so between other jobs I did what filler work I could before it got late enough that I had to get paint on. The areas I've done are presentable but, like a few other small spots, will need me to go back later to make them perfect. For now, I'm happy that the areas painted look smart. The rear wing is lots better now there's no a hole in it. Not really sure how I got overspray on the rear tyre, everything was covered up. 20180709-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Top of the wing just over the side repeater had a dent. You can't see it now, of course. 20180709-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The paint wasn't drying fast enough to mask so I did a rush job to just finish this corner. I can redo the overspray bits when I've a bit more time. 20180709-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Front end looks hugely better. When I've finshed the wing-to-valance seam underneath I can get this all painted properly. It's just nice having it look fairly uniform at last. 20180709-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr
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retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member
Winging it.....Since 1971.
Posts: 3,726
Club RR Member Number: 94
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Looking great, can't believe how well you've progressed with the Princess, it's going to look more like a Leyland concept when you've finished! 👍🏻
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1974 Hillman Avenger 1500DL1992 Volvo 240SE1975 Datsun Cherry 100a flying custard1965 Hillman SuperMinx Rock N Roller1974 Austin Allegrat Mk1 1.3SDL1980 Austin Allegro Mk3 1.3L1982 Austin Allegro Mk3 on banded steels2003 Saab 9-3 Convertible 220bhp TurboNutter1966 Morris Minor 1000 (Doris) 2019 Abarth 595C Turismo (not retro but awesome fun) www.facebook.com/DatsunCherry100a
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Absolutely love this Vulgalour. Those DS style lights are awesome. The when car is really coming together.
I reckon you should think about finishing this off with some badging on the back that is visually very similar to the production badging, but not quite right. Just that little bit of a designer's creative energy to it that makes it different and makes this whole this thing seem like it's genuinely a prototype car.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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I try and work with the best bits of what's provided on the car and pare it back to what feels like the most balanced point of the design. The Princess is, for it's time, a fairly modern design that was then hampered by dowdy styling additions, not helped by frumpy colours on later cars. Concept cars I have a great fondness for, especially the ones that do their best to combine style and functionality. The Princess doesn't feel a long way from a 70s concept car really, with an theme of trapezoids throughout, something that I'd compromised somewhat with my desire to add circles.
When it was designed, the Princess really did embrace the wonky rectangle: - door handles - headlights (both halogen fishbowls and the black plastic trims for twin rounds) - side window silhouette - rear window outline - dashboard telltales (on mk1 cars) - rear lights - rear view mirror
There's probably even more I can't think of right now too, it was definitely a theme of the design.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jul 14, 2018 21:27:08 GMT
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Hey look, that scabby old orange door is gone! 20180714-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr It was a bit of a faff, as always, to fit the door. Fortunately Mike was here to help so getting it aligned wasn't as bad as doing it myself. Even got it opening and closing and fitting as well as the orange door it replaced, so that's a big bonus. I didn't get everything back on, just enough to get it operational, as I still have to fit the door mirror. It's a bit late to be drilling holes and painting raw metal edges so I'll do that bit tomorrow, for now this is fine and will keep the weather and local cats out of the car. 20180714-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr The door fit about as well as it did when it came off the car, though my repairs needed a little fine* adjustment with a rubber mallet in a couple of places. That exposed a crack on the outer door skin, presumably where the metal is a bit thin as this isn't an area I repaired on the outside. I'll clean it back and give it a buzz of weld when I'm at the unit next, it's not a big job. 20180714-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Got the B pillar gap as good as it ever gets on this car. Good old BL panel gaps here, not a great deal you can do about them apart from live with it. 20180714-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr BEHOLD! An opening window. Since putting the orange door on temporarily I've not been able to open this window which, let me tell you, has not been fun in the recent warm spell we've been having! You haven't really lived until you've driven a car with untinted glass, no air conditioning, and no windows you can operate from the driver's seat while the UK is experiencing a heatwave. It's quite something. 20180714-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Finally, the scruffy paint blend on the front wing was tidied up properly and I got the majority of the filler work done on the back edge of the wing so it's now all nice and presentable. I'm a bit fed up of working on doors so my attention will turn to the other jobs on the car now, rather than fixing and repainting that rear door. 20180714-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Tomorrow I'll get the mirror fitted to this door and the door card reinstated, then it'll be time to give it all a much needed bath.
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Jul 14, 2018 22:58:06 GMT
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That, Mr V, is starting to look really quite tidy. I may have to get my finger out and make mine look a little more presentable. Fat chance... In my defence I'm busy enjoying @quatermass 's thread but it's getting longer faster than I can read the damn thing... (Excuses! ) The new colours are good too. I was a little unsure to begin with but I'm convinced now. Keep it up! James
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,268
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Jul 15, 2018 19:09:36 GMT
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We're getting there, aren't we? Six years though. It's been a long old slog. That Quatermass is a troublemaker, I'm sure of it. --- Today, I ended up doing some welding. I didn't want to, but there you go. I had gone to unbolt the nut that goes on the bottom of the driver's door mirror so I could both clean up the base easier and mark the holes for drilling in the new door easier. Unfortunately, on the first turn of the socket it sheared the threaded end off the mirror stem without any warning nor excessive force. Oh well, I guess that meant my easy day of fitting the mirror and washing the car would involve sweating while welding instead. First thing I tackled at the unit was the bit of split outer skin. This actually went very easily and when I've finished adjusting the bottom edge of the door so it sits against the sill a little nicer, I can now get all of this cleaned up and in filler properly. For now, it's just got paint on to keep it stable. 20180715-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Inside the door I'd noticed, like on the orange spare, there were two stress cracks. This is I think from the door having sagged in the past and needing to be slammed to close for years and it's the nearest weak point to the grab handle. I don't think it's a design flaw that's caused this as the passenger side doors haven't suffered from it, just the front driver's. Welded them both up, sloshed some paint on, but didn't waste time grinding it down since it won't be seen and this way it should be stronger. The door handle did feel more secure after having done this, previously it felt like it had a bit of flex to it and now it doesn't. 20180715-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr Repairing the mirror stem was a fussy job. I used a bolt that I ground the head down on and then welded to the stem. There's a plastic insert this side where on the other stem it's just plain metal, and I couldn't get the insert off. That made the job a bit more awkward since I was trying to avoid grinding or melting the plastic bit. Still, on the second attempt I got the bolt somewhat like it needed to be and a trial fit on the bench proved it to be good enough. I also used a nyloc nut on the bottom to prevent it coming undone as opposed to the plain nut that was there before and had rusted solid. 20180715-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I made the decision to mount the mirror slightly further back on the door this time, which means the A pillar/gutter doesn't obscure the top inner corner now. What I also managed to do was align the top hole in the most awkward way possible so it's nearly impossible to get a nut on the back of the bolt because it sits exactly behind the window runner guide. The other two were much easier to access. 20180715-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr 20180715-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr I also noticed the GB grille badge was not only wonky, but now loose. To save it falling off somewhere, I popped that off and discovered it was only just held on with one of the bar clamps on the back. The front end does look tidier without it, but I think I'll get some new fixings and reinstate it anyway because I quite like it. 20180715-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr After all that it got a quick bath to get rid of the filler dust but really, it was too hot and humid to do a decent job. That was also the point I realised that after building up the inside of the door I'd totally forgotten to refit the moisture membrane. A job for another day. Happily, this front door now closes almost as nicely as the passenger front door and certainly better than it ever has before, so I'm quite happy about that.
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retrolegends
Club Retro Rides Member
Winging it.....Since 1971.
Posts: 3,726
Club RR Member Number: 94
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Jul 16, 2018 20:04:44 GMT
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Have you had this 6 years? Flipin eck. Doesn't seem that long since I was reading about your Polo.
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1974 Hillman Avenger 1500DL1992 Volvo 240SE1975 Datsun Cherry 100a flying custard1965 Hillman SuperMinx Rock N Roller1974 Austin Allegrat Mk1 1.3SDL1980 Austin Allegro Mk3 1.3L1982 Austin Allegro Mk3 on banded steels2003 Saab 9-3 Convertible 220bhp TurboNutter1966 Morris Minor 1000 (Doris) 2019 Abarth 595C Turismo (not retro but awesome fun) www.facebook.com/DatsunCherry100a
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Wow, haven't caught up on this in a while, and look how far it's come! Looking great!
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