vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 22, 2017 18:36:37 GMT
|
The weather has cooled down to something like normal today and I learned I don't in fact have over a week to get the Rover sorted for Preston Park, just a few days. Better crack on with that bumper then. I did have to grind the heads off the screws holding the bumper to the undertray and now I can't get the remaining good screws to go back in the holes properly to hold the two together, I'll probably deploy some zip ties since it's a part of the car that's never seen. The undertray seems to sit in place okay so it'll do for now I guess. Painting the bumper was easy. Key it back, wash it down, let it dry, mask it up, prime, paint, lacquer... really fast today because the weather has cut down drying times considerably. I wasn't expecting the bumper to be ready to handle until tomorrow so I was delighted that I could actually get the bumper on today. There wasn't anything to deal with on the car before putting the bumper on, no point cleaning everything behind it because it'll only get dirty again and there's no rust to sort out.  Spent some time once the bumper was in place loosely adjusting the angle and height with these bolts...  ...then when I was happy the gap was fairly even to the wing and the arch radius was as matched as I could get it...  ...it was just a case of refitting the lights and grille. Alignment was pretty good, certainly better than before I took it apart, with the exception of the grille which is being a bit stubborn about sitting where I want it to for some reason.  The number plate needs replacing next really, having repainted the bumper has really highlighted how bad the condition of it is. The rear plate could do with being replaced too so I'll do both at the same time. I do like that the front plate now blends into the bumper. I really dislike number plates on the front of cars so anything that makes them less obvious is a good thing in my book.   Just the gold trim inserts to do and a jolly good clean and we'll be good for Preston Park. |
| |
|
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,323 
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
|
|
|
|
Looks much more finished now it's white all round the bottom. The facelift bumper coupled with the early bonnet make it look like a dealership 'sports' model. This works well with the red white and gold vibe for sure.
|
| |
|
|
eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,556
|
|
|
|
|
I like this much better!
|
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 23, 2017 11:32:57 GMT
|
The facelift bumper coupled with the early bonnet make it look like a dealership 'sports' model. Good point. I'll run with that too if anyone asks XD "yeah, mate, it was a dealer special, not many made". |
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 24, 2017 17:17:16 GMT
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Now that looks very smart indeed!
|
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 25, 2017 22:36:52 GMT
|
The show went well... to a point. I live the closest to the show so really I shouldn't have had any problem getting to the meet up point in time for half mile or so trundle to the show itself. Except I forgot my passes when I was nearly there so I had to go all the way back home and missed out on the trundle. NEVER MIND. The club did get a really prime spot, more details on the show here: forum.retro-rides.org/thread/198514/preston-park-pics if you like pictures. Shorthand is we had five R8s in attendance; two saloons, two hatchbacks and a sports coupé. That's pretty good representation for a small club with some members travelling from quite a long way away. Top stuff, this is the club forum address: www.rover200.org.uk/  The really fun bit was a chap with a Trabant Kombi asking if we could jump start his car, it hadn't liked queueing on the way in and the battery was too flat to start it. A two hour wait for the recovery service was a bit silly since he had some really good jump leads so I can now add jump starting a Trabant to the Rover's hero list. Other cars on this list so far are Toyota Supra (Mk3), Austin Princess, Daihatsu Applause, Vauxhall Corsa (B), Renault 6TL and Nissan Micra (K11).  |
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 15:26:30 GMT
|
I am not happy. I mentioned recently the Princess had a bit of a lean, it had stopped at around a half inch difference which was mostly balanced out when I was sat in the car driving so not an issue. Today I took the car out for a regular little errand as I've not used it for a couple of days and the lean seemed worse. Where the car is parked isn't level so it could just have been that so since I needed fuel I went over to the supermarket where there's a flat space to check things out... and went around a corner and heard an odd knocking noise... and a sharper corner and heard tyre scrub. curse word. You see, I know what this means and none of it is good. The ride was noticeably jiggly too and I definitely knew what that meant. It's not so obvious from the front.  It's VERY obvious from the side.  I reckon it's blown the front displacer I've only just replaced and I think it's gone internally just like the last one. That's four in five years. I have no spares and even if I did find a spare, I haven't got the spare funds for one at the moment. The warning of this happening was that slight lean it had got which can sometimes just be things settling, especially if the suspension is still supple. Now the suspension feels more like that in a coil sprung car so it rides okay but the soft wafting lope is gone. Suffice to say the car is grounded once again for the forseeable. I've haven't the funds to invest in re-engineering the suspension, nor the experience to feel confident I'd be able to do it safely so I'll just have to hold on until a new displacer appears when I've got some cash free. Displacers generally start at £60 each (always second hand, there are no new ones, and I'm not counting NOS as they're still going to be at least 30 years old now) and the pump-up is going to be another £40 or so on top of that. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 19:53:22 GMT
|
Bummer  AIRBAGS!!! yay!!!!!!.......oh, no money I'm assuming it's not possible to have them rebuilt/repaired? problem being is they will all be at end of life now. Can Allegro or any others be adapted to fit? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 20:03:34 GMT
|
Did a bit of research, can you use the Rover Metro or even better the MGF unit in your car? you know you want to...  OoooH!These would seem good if you can make them fit? link |
| |
|
|
Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 20:04:52 GMT
|
|
Aw nuts!....
|
| |
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 20:21:23 GMT
|
|
Trouble with the Metro/MGF units is spring rating and unit size. Diameter seems to be the same but they're shorter, so I'd need to do some modding up front. At the current height, even the narrow steels rub on the front arches with any sort of lock which is less than ideal. There were a couple of Ambassadors being broken this month which could offer the parts needed, maybe.
Suspension alternatives are HARD with this car. For the five years I've owned it I've been trying to find an alternative and I always run into the same two problems: short pockets and lack of engineering knowhow. Airbags won't work because there's nowhere to actually mount them up front without serious modifications and coilovers won't allow me to keep the squishomatic ride I love so much about the car. Hydraulics, equally, are not that easy to make work. Options are very limited. I may yet buy a Xantia and gut it for the suspension while they're still cheap just so I've got all the theoretical parts for Citroen suspension which is better than Hydragas in most regards, not least parts availability.
I know it's a risk with Princess ownership, it's just bitten me harder than most, and with the youngest unit out there being 33 years old even if it's NOS and with non-serviceable rubber internals this sort of failure is only going to become more common place as the rubber just wears out.
Suppose I could always stick the whole lot on a Scimitar chassis and sod the comfort, but it rather defeats the point of ownership for me.
|
| |
|
|
glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,333
Club RR Member Number: 64
Member is Online
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 22:24:47 GMT
|
|
Oh bum.
Hopefully a solution will present itself. Maybe a group effort with other owners to engineer a proper solution?
|
| |
My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 22:29:29 GMT
|
All twelve of us  |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 27, 2017 22:55:28 GMT
|
|
I would think that the MGF would be relatively easy to adapt to fit (ignoring spring rate). They look similar so I would think all you need to do is get someone who understands engineering measuring to measure them up and you could get an adaptor/spacer machined for not a lot of money to make them physically fit.
In terms of ride its a little harder, you would need to find out the axle weights of your car and the MGF to see what the weight difference is. I'm guessing yours is heavier which would give a lower ride height (possibly removed by the aformentioned spacer) and it may be a softer ride for the same reason. Stiffer shox could possibly compensate for this if it was too soft.
Airbags could possibly go in as direct replacements for the hydragas units - they look similar size? Rayvern Hydraulics could advise if you supplied dimensions just to explore the option.
|
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
|
|
|
I've discussed this quite a few times with quite a few people. Air is the way I want to go and at the back that's easy because of how the rear suspension is set up. At the front it's much harder and there isn't an air bag that fits when compressed in the stock location. The front displacers on the Princess are mounted horizontally across the bulkhead, which is really weird and hampers any efforts to put a more conventional system in place. No suspension turrets at all front or rear and the front chassis elements would need strengthening if you were to use them as a mounting point for a more conventional tower, something I don't know how to do safely.
The Allegro, which is the Princess' nearest suspension relative, is much easier to sort out. On the Allegro the rear end is the same with a fixed crossbeam and trailing arms housing the suspension units while at the front the hydragas displacers are mounted vertically in an almost conventional way giving a good location for coilovers or air bags.
The MGF units are a close fit but have their own problems. The MGF's weight distribution is different to the Princess and while theoretically it is possible to use them, they have the same pipe fittings after all, and the same diameter, they aren't a straight swap as far as I can find out without buying a pair to try them out. Also, MGF units are a finite resource and designed to work in conjunction with dampers, something the Princess doesn't have. The Princess relies solely on its four displacers for suspension, there's no additional assistance from springs or dampers.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Possible to thieve an allegro front system including 'strut towers' and wrangle it in to the princess?
Or are they just as unavailable.
|
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 10:43:55 GMT
|
|
It might solve the lack of turret problem but it won't solve the displacer issue as Allegro displacers are getting to be just as problematic to source though seem less prone to failure.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 14:39:09 GMT
|
|
I find it hard to believe that no one has sorted a cost effective solution for the problem - surely you can't be the only one that has experienced this headache - I thought that I had heard of someone finding a way of splitting the displacers - inserting a new seal / reassembling and then fitting them with a separate filling valve so that each displacer is independent ?
|
| |
|
|
vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,275
Club RR Member Number: 146
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 16:51:33 GMT
|
|
Solutions to the problem are limited.
Coilovers - apparently there was a cartridge in the 1980s that you could swap in made by an aftermarket supplier. I've never found proof of this or a car having had it done, it's just something I was told once.
Individualising - I've got a set of adapators that do away with the front-to-back pipes and two out of the four schrader valves needed to complete the conversion. This doesn't solve the problem, but it means if a displacer fails you only lose one corner.
Re-gassing - There is an enthusiast offering the service wherein a schrader valve is inserted into the nitrogen end of the displacer so that it can be refilled. This has a moderately good success rate at preventing internal failure as it means the diaphragm isn't over-stretched into the nitrogen compartment when the fluid compartment is over-filled, something you don't really know you're doing until it's too late. It's not a 100% success though, with some displacers failing even after this modification is done.
Rebuilding - Dr Moulton did theorise and test a servicable displacer. The sealing ring was split allowing access to the internals and then reclamped. The problems were that the unit wasn't as durable and ended up bulkier so it wasn't possible to reinstall these units back into the car without some modification. As far as I'm aware only one car had this system trialled and it no longer exists.
That's it. There's no other solutions that have been offered. The trouble is, the suspension is entirely unconventional and when the cars reached the end of their usable life for most owners, more often than not due to rust like most 70s and 80s cars, they were just disposed of in the normal way. They never hit collectible status and never gained the cult following of the Marina and Allegro and now they're so rare nobody is bothering to sort the issue out. Those of us that do have Princesses generally haven't the funds or knowledge and in some cases the inclination, to research solutions.
I have kept all my dead displacers just in case a solution presents itself. If I can find some way to make displacers serviceable in a way that's affordable and/or easy for owners I would be absolutely delighted. I'm not interested in making money on this, just keeping them going. Everything else on the Princess is easily maintainable and repairable but the displacer issue can put otherwise perfect cars out of commission indefinitely.
|
| |
|
|
