stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
|
|
Jun 16, 2014 17:05:22 GMT
|
Even if it did work which I think would be a long shot, you would be sending the same fuel back through the pump as it is picked up by the pump instead of going back to the tank, this means that the fuel will heat up from the pump and the pressure repeatedly instead of going into the tank and cooling down, not good even if it will work, which it probably will not, if it would manufactures would d it that way.
You need to cut the original tank for you swirl pot anyway or make a remote one
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 16, 2014 17:05:57 GMT by stefan
POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz 1997 Saab 93 convertible 2010 transit 280
|
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
fuel injectionferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
Jun 16, 2014 17:07:08 GMT
|
I can see your thinking and logic, but...
Think of your tee-piece as a roundabout with three roads connected to it, with only one allowing "traffic" to exit. At 3 o'clock we have your fuel tank, 6 o'clock your return and at 9 o'clock your fuel pump sending fue... traffic to the engine. What's happening after the fuel pump will be constant, it'll put out the same amount no matter what so requires the same amount. What's returning at 6 o'clock will fluctuate depending on what your engine is doing - high revs will see little coming back and at tickover you'll be getting most of it returning. The problem you have is that you're asking the flow of traffic returning to fight against what's trying to enter from 3 o'clock. It won't like it and it'll get messy. Cars don't like driving towards each other and nor do flows. What you want is a slip road allowing returning traffic to join the back of the queue already formed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2014 19:09:25 GMT
|
Yeah.... The mechanic said it would work "flow wise" but as you said, the temperature would build up from constant recycling :/
I have to say, I don't want to nacker the pump, but swirl pots n all the plumbing and extra pump might be abit OTT! Ha I'm trying to do this on a budget.
I've found a redundant plug hidden near the top of the tank so I'll try n plumb the return in there for now
is the swirl pot really necessary though? I don't have much money left after all the engine electrical gubins!!!
|
|
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
fuel injectionferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
Jun 16, 2014 19:28:11 GMT
|
Depends on the shape of your fuel tank, its internals (baffles, pick up point, etc.) and what type of driving you're going to do.
My tank outlet is at the very bottom of the tank, it's angled towards it, contains a centre baffle, is narrow and I'll do the odd autosolo and track day. I don't expect to need a swirl pot. If the tank was short and wide however...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2014 19:58:36 GMT
|
Its about 2' x 2' and quite shallow, the outlet is right at the bottom, at the front... I've got the new pump mounted between the boot and the rear seat hidden away, plenty of room for a swirl pot if needed. And directly above the fuel tank. I've got a 5m length of fuel line coming this week so plenty to play with for now
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2014 19:59:23 GMT
|
I guess the pot won't be high pressure so no need for JIC fittings on it really?
|
|
|
|
RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
|
|
Jun 16, 2014 20:12:00 GMT
|
Yep, basically it'll depend on the shape of the tank. As an extreme example, no one bothers with them in Minis with their tall thin tanks, but in my Scirocco with it's flat, wide, un-baffled, sump-less tank I regularly hear the lift pump start to dry up on roundabouts or long bends, and I wouldn't dare run the turbo engine that's in it without a swirl pot.
Of course if you just want to get it on the road and sort a swirl-pot later once you've found a touch more cash, you could always just make sure there's plenty of fuel in it all the time.
One common place to add a return without damaging the tank is in the level sender.
|
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,255
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
fuel injectionRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
|
You could always try fitting an under-floor fuel cooler from a modern diesel car if you want to do the T piece layout. If you fitted it to the return it may keep the temperatures down without impeding the flow for the pressure rail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So from what I can gather, its do-able... I knew I wasn't metal! I'm gonna investigate the redundant tank plug / hole I found first. But that Will be my back up plan...
Cheers rich
and a few people have suggested the level sender plug, but there's not much room on this cars one, and I want a fuel gauge so can't use the sender wire hole
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 9:10:25 GMT by code109
|
|
|
|
|
Although an underfloor cooler might not be a good idea, how low I want to get the car
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 9:07:22 GMT by code109
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,255
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
fuel injectionRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
|
Although an underfloor cooler might not be a good idea, how low I want to get the car You could use an underfloor one and mount it not under-floor
|
|
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
fuel injectionferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
Jun 17, 2014 10:10:30 GMT
|
So from what I can gather, its do-able... I knew I wasn't metal! So you're more a little punk then? Sorry, couldn't resist!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 12:04:44 GMT
|
Well then!!!! I think I'll take my ideas elsewhere! Haha
its more that I couldn't see why it wouldn't work, n got slagged off for it lol
And its where else to mount a cooler where there's air flow. No room at the front of the car and doubt fancy having it twangy about on the roof!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 12:10:29 GMT
|
FYI My T idea has been done on a car! I won't name n "shame" but he said its not idea but works
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 12:15:56 GMT
|
I would just get a mx5 tank with pump/sender and cut the bits out including fuel return and get them welded in your tank .Then there is no if or maybe about it .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 14:43:37 GMT
|
I know that would be the easy option, although the mx5 tank is a lot different to the hunter, and its sender n pipes are mounted on the top so it needs to be the right depth...
Plus I'm trying to avoid ruining the tank if possible
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 14:48:09 GMT by code109
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 14:45:07 GMT
|
So far, all the mod I've done to the car have used existing mounts, or holes, etc.... So if I ever want to convert the car back I can
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 14:46:12 GMT by code109
|
|
RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 17:20:33 GMT
|
The main issue I'd expect with the t-piece besides heat is that you might have to bleed it to get it going at first, or if you ever ran out of fuel. As if there's any air in there it's just going to pump it round in a circle and wont draw any fuel up out of the tank.
It's not an unworkable idea, but personally I'd say it's too far from ideal to bother with. It's not like bunging a return line's a difficult thing to do if you ever did return it to carbs. Plus plenty of carb'd cars run a return too, so you could just plumb it up like they do.
|
|
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2014 17:21:48 GMT by RobinJI
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 18:26:47 GMT
|
its more that I couldn't see why it wouldn't work, n got slagged off for it lol I don't think you got slagged off so much as you got questioned because people couldn't really understand what you were trying to achieve and they were attempting to help you in the process of gaining their own understanding of your issue and proposed solution. In fact reading through the thread people have been very helpful and not dismissed what looked like a weird idea of yours straight off the bat, so I rather take objection to you characterising the community as slagging you off, I think we're rather nice and helpful
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 17, 2014 19:20:33 GMT
|
The best idea put forward here is the use of an external swirl pot. Not sure of the Hunter tank layout but you might also need to use a low pressure pump to feed the swirl pot - a Huco, Facet or even old SU pump would do that job no problem. As regards swirl pots - a simple, readily available one complete with built in pump exists. It was OEM fit on the Mk2 Golf and Jetta GTI. One from a later, electronic injected car (rather than early K-jet) would be best suited. www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=TJBw5IqYb_bYGM&tbnid=f6g0_KYs5Q8JdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scimitarweb.co.uk%2Fsgwrs%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D3%26t%3D8649%26start%3D150&ei=wZSgU7KeF8n07AaXjYCACw&bvm=bv.68911936,d.ZGU&psig=AFQjCNEzTZ_wh2tTZxOc2p5xIIPmbhCJnw&ust=1403119075527913 One solution I've seen for getting a tank return without drilling the tank itself is to the drill the tank level sender plate. Also, you don't need to use expensive fittings. I've used standard copper pipe (8mm) and high pressure injection hose with good quality hose clips (been fine 8 years/40k). So long as the copper pipe has a single flare formed on the end so the hose can't blow off it is fine. You can also use standard Enots compression fittings (usually used in industrial compressed air systems), even with nylon hose provided ferrules are used to support the olive. Nick
|
|
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
|
|
|