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Mar 17, 2014 17:38:56 GMT
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Hi all, a friend has recently told me of a company who sell welding gasses without rent.
All great, but does the dreaded licence still apply if you simply turn up and order?
My lovely wife has just bought me an English Wheel, but I'll need to weld together all the lovely shapes I make!
Cheers,
Martin
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Mar 17, 2014 17:51:38 GMT
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Mar 17, 2014 22:22:28 GMT
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In my experience the rent free ones are actually very expensive as you have to pay a hefty deposit, I bought an old large bottle outright from a local gas supplier for £50 and the refills are £40 whereas a rent free bottle of the same price was over £200 including the initial deposit.
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Last Edit: Mar 17, 2014 22:23:23 GMT by Deleted
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Mar 17, 2014 23:36:58 GMT
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True the bottle deposit is hefty, but is returnable from ,say, Classic Oils. I haven't tried any others.
But what of this licence business?
Martin
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What do you mean by licence ?
For example I have a large bottle from BOC for MIG welding. No checking or permission - just pay the rental.
Not sure about oxy accet as my bottles (since gone as rarely used) were "under the radar" but suspect they would be the same.
Are you referring to council, Health and Safety, insurance or similar "licence" ?
Paul h
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Mar 18, 2014 10:55:39 GMT
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To be honest, Paul, I have no idea where the licence would have been issued from. All I ever heard was that if you had a set of oxy acetylene bottles you couldn't get them filled again (presumably by BOC) "without a licence", as in BOC wouldn't fill 'em if you couldn't show them a suitable bit of paper. And I heard that so often from so many people that I assumed it was correct. I'm only interested in oxy acetylene as I haven't heard of any need for a licence for Mig gasses and anyway, you buy Mig and Tig outfits with all the stuff included.
Martin
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Last Edit: Mar 18, 2014 10:56:10 GMT by sixlover
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Mar 18, 2014 11:18:37 GMT
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Now I understand.
It's not a licence but a contract that people are referring to about BOC. Same applies to all BOC gases no matter what - they won't exchange unless you have an account with them for the annual rental.
Don't worry therefore if you go to somewhere, even BOC, for bottles as they will guide you through what needs doing. As you already know you need a contract with BOC and annual rental is dear but even for other suppliers where you buy / one off payment for bottles they might also ask for proof of identity.
If you have managed to get a get of bottles "off the radar" however then you are reliant on somebody else with the same bottles who has a proper contract to exchange them for you. Scrapyards used to oblige for a few quid more than the refill cost but they are far and few between now who will do that. Also, as I found out, the bottles have a date so even if you can still find somebody who will exchange on their contract then if out of date bottles then they would probably be seized.
My advice is go the legitimate route and buy bottles for a one off payment from a company who will then exchange whenever you want and thus avoid a lot of hassle.
Whilst full sized bottles are the most cost effective (I've had two sets over the years) they are very heavy, take up a lot of space plus if you have nosey neighbours they might complain. Small Portapak size work out more expensive but on the other hand can easily be stored away, carried in a car plus easy to hide from prying eyes.
When you take into account the cost of bottle purchase, gas and oxy accet set up then you are probably getting into TIG price range and I'd suggest you seriously consider that route as well.
Have fun.
Paul h
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sparkyt
Posted a lot
selling stuff
Posts: 1,767
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Mar 18, 2014 13:07:52 GMT
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Are you local to Birmingham
Birmingham welding supplies does gas they fill my pub bottle with Argo shield no rent
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Mar 18, 2014 14:40:59 GMT
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Paul,
I admit the costs are starting to look a bit daunting, but to do bodywork it has to be oxyacetylene. TiG is no good as the bead is too big and too hard and the joints tend to crack. It also makes the panel undressable. Plus I love the silence and lack of fuss that gas welding offers. I've done it before and got on well with it.
To think...the original Portapak was just 40 quid and my friend built an entire 750 Formula racing car with one in a lock up!
They are now about 10 times the price!
The small cylinder firms I've seen charge a returnable deposit for the bottles and a refill charge for the gas, but the deposits are really high (£60 for oxygen, £160 for acetylene. Fortunately we have no neighbours bar sheep.
Sparkyt, not near Brum, but we have a Hobbygas agent fairly near.
Cheers,
Martin
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Mar 18, 2014 16:21:55 GMT
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BOC bottles are apparently electronically tagged now, so you can't take back someone elses bottle on your account
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Mar 18, 2014 18:30:11 GMT
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Also, bear in mind that the hobby cylinders are filled to a lesser level.
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Mar 18, 2014 19:12:46 GMT
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The Air Products ones are apparently bigger than Hobbyweld, but smaller than BOC, whose prices I understand are getting ridiculous.
Christ, all I want to do is join some shapes together! It's looking cheaper to make the shapes and take them to Contour Autocraft to weld up for me as they're only up the road!
And they go on about "makers". Button pushing bits assemblers and it's all the rage! Those of us who actually want to make stuff from scratch are considered dinosaurs. Well it took an asteroid to wipe them out! All it would take to wipe out the button pushers is a power cut and they're on the way!
Martin
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Mar 20, 2014 20:41:43 GMT
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I have a cylinder of BOC Argoshield. I got this via previous employer,so i have no rental costs, however tying to get it exchanged for a full one, i had to get an account with BOC before the local agent would supply,but that worked out to be a fair old whack.(over 100 quid)
So if like me you have a BOC cylinder you need to get exchanged,you can go to HSS Hire,they'll just sell you the gas on an exchange basis, no rental agreements,and don't need certs or anything.
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Mar 21, 2014 22:43:33 GMT
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Maybe with Argoshield, but I doubt they'd exchange Oxygen or acetylene. And they're the gasses I'd need. This is all proving so expensive and so much faff, that I've decided not to build the Airline Coupe, but something like this which will require wheeling but no welding. I can make the lovely Amilcar grille with brass and have it nickel plated after silver soldering it together.  or this:-  The pointed tail will be fairly easy and there will be much less to do to my Baretta basis, so I can start building much sooner. Plus it'll best suit cycle wings, rather than the expensive flowing GRP set, saving money for some nice vintage details. Cheers, Martin |
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Mar 22, 2014 15:26:45 GMT
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Yes they will.
You may have to go to a larger branch,as some of the smaller branches don't have a storage facility.
Their catalogue shows what they supply.
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Mar 22, 2014 20:41:11 GMT
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I'll look them up, but those I've seen are just way too expensive.
I'm happy with the decision to go pointy tail. It's a lot less stress and my English wheel arrives on Tuesday, so I'll be busy getting the hang of that.
Cheers,
Martin
Edited to say...just looked them up and they are hirers at about £110 a week. 3 weeks at that rate and I'll have bought one!
Thanks anyway.
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Last Edit: Mar 22, 2014 20:48:19 GMT by sixlover
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joe90
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,027 
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Mar 22, 2014 21:31:36 GMT
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Where about's are you mate.
Bryan
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I'm in the Cambs/Norfolk Fens, Bryan. I guess it's my own fault for thinking things are still as cheap as they used to be.
When I was young and stupid and earning curse word all, I could have afforded a Portapak.
Now I'm just old and silly....and tight!
I suppose because I just went out and bought a perfectly nice little Micra as a daily driver for £375 with a year's ticket, I sort of find the same amount for a bit of welding gear (or a lot more) as a case of "Pff, F*** that!" And the Micra is to replace my utterly reliable little £300 AX I bought over 18 months ago!
Cheers,
Martin
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Mar 23, 2014 13:24:36 GMT
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I'll look them up, but those I've seen are just way too expensive. I'm happy with the decision to go pointy tail. It's a lot less stress and my English wheel arrives on Tuesday, so I'll be busy getting the hang of that. Cheers, Martin Edited to say...just looked them up and they are hirers at about £110 a week. 3 weeks at that rate and I'll have bought one! Thanks anyway. Yes they are a hire company, and yes they will rent you the whole kit. But they also sell the gas (i mean if you're a customer having it on long term hire,you'll need replacement gases) You can go and order some if you have an empty BOC cylinder to give them in return,(must be same size as what you order, and in good condition. Trust me ..... guess who i used to work for .......  |
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Mar 23, 2014 20:29:22 GMT
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Have you tried a small independent gas supplier that is not tied to one of the big companies, In Southampton I use a company called 'Dorset gas' (yes Southampton in in Hampshire!) and they are half the price of the major bottle suppliers.
Ask your local car repairer or garages who they use.
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