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In the 80's my Dad had a York Derv engined Transit Mk2, when he got it it wouldn't start in winter below -1 it got worse every year until it was well into spring before it would fire without a good lung of easystart, not addiction just getting more and more tired! I worked as a mechanic in the 80's for the NCB & we had literally about 100 Transits with Yorkies in. NONE of them would ever start in winter without a sniff. They were just inherently bad. We had over 600 vehicles there of various types & in winter on a Monday morning, when the things had been stood all weekend, two of us would do 'over time' starting at 3am & basically get all the keys & go round with a can of ES firing everything up before the drivers turned up for their shift. They didn't need after the cold weather though
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 20, 2014 11:53:08 GMT
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My feelings on this is that if you need to use easy start or similar to start an engine then it is already well past its best , therefore there is a fair chance its always going to need it afterwards . Not exactly addicted to it ,but more like prolonging its life . That's fair enough, if the compression is so poor that it won't start without it, but its not caused by using it. I was called a see you next Tuesday a little while back by a certain reputable mechanic because I used easystart on a van with low fuel pressure. Now I suspect in that instance it was sour grapes because I was pinching his work, but I just don't see how its possible for an engine to become dependant on it. I've seen the det marks it makes on pistons, i use brake cleaner to start diesels that have fuel re supply issues, way kinder on the piston CROWN, you can hear it's easyer and see after removing the head. As to the myth, it's sort of true, the more you use it the more the bore gets washed and the comp drops, mainly on diesels that already have lowish comp which is why they wont start, it all goes back to the 70's (mainly CFs and York transits) which were buggers to start at the best of times but is not really relevant to modern engines IME. Rhe ealy Kent 1.6 diesels used to loose compression from day one and just get harder and harder to start as it dropped away with age and lack of servicing, Di transits are the same, so tough no-one changes the oil , that causes bore wear so the easy start comes out, bore wash makes the comp lower and lower and all your really doing it prolonging it's life, the rot started way before the easy start came out.
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2014 11:58:07 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Feb 20, 2014 13:31:13 GMT
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^ interesting to hear of the det marks on the pistons, bortaf. That was always my understanding, especially with regard to diesels - it burns so easily that the high cr ignites it well in advance of tdc, which can damage pistons, rings and bores.
In large doses I understand it can bend con rods, which is a pretty good way if drastically lowering the cr.
For what it's worth, the manual I have for my small 60s Petter diesel generator says thay ether may be used sparingly to assist hand starting, but only for emergency use (eg fire pumps) - repeated use will cause damage.
Finally, I understand that the army had a system of glass bulbs of ether for starting reluctant diesels. They were of a standard size and used in multiples for larger engines. Thing is they were too big for the little single cylinder Petter engines. They'd start them once, but the violence of the combustion would pull the head bolts out of the block, so they'd not run again without a rebuild.
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Feb 20, 2014 14:36:09 GMT
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^ interesting to hear of the det marks on the pistons, bortaf. That was always my understanding, especially with regard to diesels - it burns so easily that the high cr ignites it well in advance of tdc, which can damage pistons, rings and bores. In large doses I understand it can bend con rods, which is a pretty good way if drastically lowering the cr. For what it's worth, the manual I have for my small 60s Petter diesel generator says thay ether may be used sparingly to assist hand starting, but only for emergency use (eg fire pumps) - repeated use will cause damage. Finally, I understand that the army had a system of glass bulbs of ether for starting reluctant diesels. They were of a standard size and used in multiples for larger engines. Thing is they were too big for the little single cylinder Petter engines. They'd start them once, but the violence of the combustion would pull the head bolts out of the block, so they'd not run again without a rebuild. Seriously? Bent conrods and heads ripped off blocks? At 300 rpm from a starter motor?
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Feb 20, 2014 15:08:36 GMT
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My Fiat twin-cam Minor with Weber 34ADF twin-choke carb was always rather reluctant to start, particularly if left sitting for more than a day.
The garage owner round the corner got it going one day by spraying brake cleaner down the carb. From then on, I always carried a can of carb or brake cleaner in the glovebox, although I normally just slipped a slug of fuel down the carb, which seemed to work better as it burnt for longer.
It was quite a relief in some ways to have sold the car, as it was always rather temperamental, in typical Italian fashion, and had the capacity to be really frustrating at times!
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 20, 2014 19:19:12 GMT
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^ interesting to hear of the det marks on the pistons, bortaf. That was always my understanding, especially with regard to diesels - it burns so easily that the high cr ignites it well in advance of tdc, which can damage pistons, rings and bores. In large doses I understand it can bend con rods, which is a pretty good way if drastically lowering the cr. For what it's worth, the manual I have for my small 60s Petter diesel generator says thay ether may be used sparingly to assist hand starting, but only for emergency use (eg fire pumps) - repeated use will cause damage. Finally, I understand that the army had a system of glass bulbs of ether for starting reluctant diesels. They were of a standard size and used in multiples for larger engines. Thing is they were too big for the little single cylinder Petter engines. They'd start them once, but the violence of the combustion would pull the head bolts out of the block, so they'd not run again without a rebuild. Seriously? Bent conrods and heads ripped off blocks? At 300 rpm from a starter motor? No but at 900 RPM on a cold fast idle any diesel sounds terrable and you can hear the det on ES and if you use too much it'll rev it tits off and then the damage is pretty much guaranteed, lets not forget the plonker factor, you or i would give it a small squirt in the intake as it's cranked but "some" would unload a couple of seconds worth of ES in the air filter intake then crank to start and if it doesen't start (which is likely as they have just soaked the air filter element in it) then another few seconds or more, now imagine the thing starts, revs it tits off and bang, i've seen it happen, of course to me or you it's the plonker owners fault but to him it's the fault of the product and the myth starts "easy start kills engines" and as said use a bulb full of enough ES to start a large engine in a small one and you have a runaway engine revving on way to powerfull a fuel at revs it shouldn't be doing. "Never underestimate the plonker factor" (said in a loud deep booming voice in an eco chamber for full effect)
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2014 19:20:27 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Feb 20, 2014 19:44:18 GMT
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I know its pretty viscous stuff, that's why I say normally use silicone. I think I need to do some experimenting next time I get an old scrapper. I'm gonna buy a case of easystart and see how much it takes to kill an engine.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 20, 2014 21:13:21 GMT
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Video it ! Video it ! Video it !
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2014 21:13:42 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Feb 20, 2014 21:15:42 GMT
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Oh, obviously.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:34:45 GMT
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Yay, Science. FWIW, the single-cylindr that suffered from head/block separation was hand start with a rope, so not a chance of 300rpm.
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For what it's worth, the manual I have for my small 60s Petter diesel generator says thay ether may be used sparingly to assist hand starting, but only for emergency use (eg fire pumps) - repeated use will cause damage. (No, I don't have anything useful to contribute)
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Last Edit: Feb 21, 2014 6:10:24 GMT by Rich606
1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 864
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Seriously? Bent conrods and heads ripped off blocks? At 300 rpm from a starter motor? No but at 900 RPM on a cold fast idle any diesel sounds terrable and you can hear the det on ES and if you use too much it'll rev it tits off and then the damage is pretty much guaranteed, lets not forget the plonker factor, you or i would give it a small squirt in the intake as it's cranked but "some" would unload a couple of seconds worth of ES in the air filter intake then crank to start and if it doesen't start (which is likely as they have just soaked the air filter element in it) then another few seconds or more, now imagine the thing starts, revs it tits off and bang, i've seen it happen, of course to me or you it's the plonker owners fault but to him it's the fault of the product and the myth starts "easy start kills engines" and as said use a bulb full of enough ES to start a large engine in a small one and you have a runaway engine revving on way to powerfull a fuel at revs it shouldn't be doing. "Never underestimate the plonker factor" (said in a loud deep booming voice in an eco chamber for full effect) The problem is that Easystart burns with a much higher energy than petrol or diesel. In other words the power in the bang is massively greater. This leads to increased cylinder pressure which in turn can lead to damage to pistons/rings/conrods. It doesn't matter what the cranking speed of the engine is if the explosion in the combustion chamber has massively more energy than the engine was designed to cope with. As for long term addiction, Easystart has zero lubrication properties. When cold and whilst cranking it is vital that the cylinder walls are lubricated as soon as possible. On a diesel part of the lubrication comes initially from the fuel itself so starting on Easystart is effectively cranking an engine without lubrication in the bores. Hence increased wear which lowers the compression and makes the need for Easystart even greater, hence the addiction. If your engine is already worn this process can happen very quickly. If you have to use Easystart you should only use the tiniest whiff of it. Use large amounts and you risk seriously damaging your engine.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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Perhaps this could have done with some?
That's a V12 starting and running on 2 cylinders, blows some nice smoke rings though...
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Last Edit: Feb 21, 2014 9:25:15 GMT by hfstuart
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Feb 21, 2014 12:28:19 GMT
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I have never actually managed to get easystart to start either of my reluctant pintos
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Feb 24, 2014 13:49:53 GMT
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I have never actually managed to get easystart to start either of my reluctant pintos once a pinto is starting bad it is well past its time !
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if sparks don't fly you're ridin too high !
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Feb 24, 2014 14:58:08 GMT
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Easystart won't help a petrol with ignition trouble.
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Feb 24, 2014 19:29:03 GMT
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Had to use some the other day to get my Disco to the workshop as the injection pump is so curse word it wont provide enough fuel to start from cold. Normally I just crank until it fires which can take a while but it was having none of it. It fired on ES but it didn't half sound rough I wont be using it again if I can help it as the bits to fix it are coming tomorrow.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,308
Club RR Member Number: 160
Member is Online
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Easystart, automotive heroin?Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Feb 24, 2014 20:53:56 GMT
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Perhaps this could have done with some? That's a V12 starting and running on 2 cylinders, blows some nice smoke rings though... Nahh, she's good, getting there towards the end
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