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Feb 15, 2014 20:15:37 GMT
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Sorry if this is a repeat of a question asked all the time...
If I buy a car in France, can I drive it home to the UK if it has a CT?
How does tax and insurance work in France?
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Feb 15, 2014 20:32:07 GMT
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Not sure about French car tax but you should be able to insure it with your UK insurance Co using the chassis number instead of the reg number.
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Feb 16, 2014 12:38:10 GMT
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There is no road tax as we know it in France. Insurance is specific to the car, so anyone is covered to drive third-party only. However, not many sellers will let you drive off on their policy - I sure as hell wouldnt - so you will need to cover it yourself either through a UK insurer or temp french insurance. If it has valid CT, then cool. Even if it fails a CT, you have two months grace to legally drive the car. iirc, its a 135 euro fine for no CT, assuming the car is roadworthy.
Your legal troubles start in the UK though - as a UK resident you are not legally allowed to drive a foreign registered car on UK soil, even from the docks to home. You will probably get away with it - hundreds of people do every day, but if stopped, they will impound the car and fine you.
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2014 12:38:39 GMT by dave21478
1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 13:21:46 GMT
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I'm not sure about the French side of things, but when I used to import cars from Japan a few years ago, you could drive a car directly from the docks, as long as you had trade plates. Not sure if the same applies for a car from France, or even if you have access to trade plates, but it's worth looking into. I can't see it being any different.
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Feb 16, 2014 13:37:17 GMT
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From the gov.uk website.....
You can usually use a vehicle displaying non-UK number plates, and not have to tax or register it in the UK, if:
you’re visiting the UK and don’t plan to live here you only use the vehicle up to 6 months in a 12-month period (1 single visit, or several shorter visits adding up to a 6-month period) the vehicle is registered and taxed in its home country If you become a resident in the UK, you must tax and register your vehicle in the UK straight away.
And you do realise that trade plates are for road tax only? they are a method for a trader to temporarily tax a UK car so it can be driven without a visible tax disc, but it still requires insurance and mot.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 14:43:04 GMT
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Yes, I have owned trade plates for over ten years, so know what they`re used for.
As I said, It was perfectly OK a few years ago to drive a freshly imported vehicle from the docks on trade plates. I spoke to the DVLA about it when I was waiting for the first car to land, and they confirmed this. This was quite a number of years ago......circa 2003, so I don`t know if things have changed since then. Obviously, being in the trade, I had trade insurance to cover me on any car, so this wasn`t a problem. Even if you don`t have trade insurance, you can insure a car on the chassis number alone, you can also MOT a car on the chassis number alone too.
EDIT; You can drive the car in the UK after you`ve paid any duties that might be due and have got the car insured, as long as it is to pre arranged appointments necessary to register the vehicle. So, you could drive the car from the docks to a pre arranged MOT, as long as you have insured the vehicle, and paid any applicable duties. Once MOT`d, it`s easy enough to register in the UK.
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2014 15:28:51 GMT by compass
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Feb 16, 2014 14:53:43 GMT
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What was ok eleven years ago is very often not still ok today, as in this case. There are plenty of first-hand accounts of uk residents getting stopped and having their foreign registered car impounded on various ex-pat forums.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 14:53:52 GMT
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From the gov.uk website..... You can usually use a vehicle displaying non-UK number plates, and not have to tax or register it in the UK, if:
you’re visiting the UK and don’t plan to live here you only use the vehicle up to 6 months in a 12-month period (1 single visit, or several shorter visits adding up to a 6-month period) the vehicle is registered and taxed in its home country If you become a resident in the UK, you must tax and register your vehicle in the UK straight away.And you do realise that trade plates are for road tax only? they are a method for a trader to temporarily tax a UK car so it can be driven without a visible tax disc, but it still requires insurance and mot. This is for temporary imports only. unless I`m mistaken the guy will be wanting to register the vehicle in the UK, so import in permanently. As I suspected, it`s perfectly OK to drive the car in the UK from the docks, as long as you are importing it permanently and follow the pre-booking rules for registration.
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2014 14:55:23 GMT by compass
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Feb 16, 2014 15:16:51 GMT
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oh, well, I suppose all the Uk residents who have had foreign cars impounded must have just imagined it all.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 15:27:02 GMT
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If they were importing them temporarily, then yes, they will have had the impounded. That`s totally irrelevant in this case though, as by the looks of things the guy is buying the car to keep; importing it permanently. The law is different in both cases.
I`ve not come on here to participate in a slanging match. I know I am right, as I have just been on the DVLA website (quiet Sunday afternoon at home) to double check. It was whilst on their website that I noticed where you copied and pasted the spiel above, which related to temp. imports, as clearly stated on the website. I don`t need to prove anything right or wrong, I`m just trying to help the guy out, by providing the correct info.
So, like I said.......if he is buying the car to register himself in the UK, he is entitled to drive it directly to a pre-booked MOT centre, as long as he has insurance cover, which can be obtained through the chassis number alone.
I can`t help with the French side of the law though I`m afraid as I`ve not had any experience of things over there.
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2014 15:27:44 GMT by compass
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Feb 16, 2014 16:00:37 GMT
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lol, "I know I am right" too. It is my job to do this amongst other things. Any foreign car on uk soil is a temporary import. If the person driving it is a foreign resident, then they are just on a touring holiday and there is no problem. If the person driving it is a uk resident, they have no right to drive it on the road.
Carry on though, you obviously know best.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 16:21:20 GMT
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Maybe read the DVLA website; if it`s your job to know these things, I suggest you need to do some research before advising people with incorrect information. All the information is on the DVLA website......I suppose that is wrong too? With regards to "any foreign car on UK soil is a temporary import" If this is the case, why are there separate paragraphs on the DVLA website for both temp. and perm. imports? As I have said many times, it`s all on the website so I don`t need to prove anything. I`ve responded to the OP with factual information. It`s up to him if he finds is useful or not. Whether knowing these details is part of your job or not, you can`t dispute the details given on the official DVLA website.........or maybe you can?
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Feb 16, 2014 17:40:06 GMT
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Every foreign car is a temporary import, because that is the way it is. It is imported temporarily, until it is re-registered, when it becomes a permanent import.
You are absolutely right - 100% factually correct. All the information is on the website. Your interpretation of it is clearly very different though, but whatever. Good luck.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 16, 2014 18:00:04 GMT
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Great reply, well done. Clutching at straws a bit?
I'm not going to drag this thread down any further for the OP, so won't be saying anymore on the matter. The information is there if its needed.
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Feb 16, 2014 20:45:41 GMT
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I think the difference here is between driving a car on foreign plates with a UK licence and driving a vehicle displaying no registration, which is technically OK to a pre booked MOT, inspection etc, but likely to get you pulled every step of the way. I got a talking to 3 years ago for borrowing a mates polish regd car to nip to the shop in, had to leave it and get him to drive it the 400 yards back to site, I think I only got hastled as they heard my accent.
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Feb 18, 2014 15:16:36 GMT
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Temp import... a car which is in the country temporary which means it is going back to the country it is registered in or on route to another country. Permanent import... A car that is destined to stay permanently in the UK. How simple can that be?
You can drive a non UK registered car from the docks DIRECT to a VOSA test centre as long as you are insured to drive THAT car, as already said get it insured using the VIN number.
The reason that some Expats get their cars impounded is that they have UK address and no prove that the car will return to the country it is registered in so their insurance is invalid and they contravene UK import rules.
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Exactly.
To say somebody claims to "know" this, you'd think they'd "know" the difference between temporary and permanent import TBH.
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Feb 19, 2014 15:16:07 GMT
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Jesus, curse word....are people being deliberately obtuse here?
Look at the V5 for an imported car - first page, bottom line. It says "Declared imported on xyz date". This is a permanently imported car - a car from elsewhere that was brought to uk, stays in uk permanently and carries a uk reg number. A. Permanent. Import.
Anything else - any other foreign car on uk soil - is a temporary import, whether its Johnny Frenchman on a week long driving holiday, a brit with a second home in spain who has brought his spanish car to Uk for whatever reason, some shady latvians living in uk and still running their car on latvian plates...These cars have been imported to the uk on a temporary basis. Maybe they will go home, maybe they will stay here for years....this does not matter, until it is re-registered in UK it is NOT a permanent import. Another temporary import is the foreign car driven by a brit who bought it in europe. It is temporarily imported to the uk and until it is reregistered it remains a temporary import, and when he gets a V5 for it, it becomes a permanant import.
So what does all that mean? well that means that as I stated above and as confirmed by the .gov website a UK resident can not drive a foreign car on UK soil.
Let me correct that for you. The reason that some Expats get their cars impounded is that they have UK address. Full stop.
Its nothing to do with insurance, its nothing to do with proving the car is returning to its registered country. This law is an oddity unique to UK, as it seems that the UK has interpreted an EU wide ruling differently from the rest of the EU. Pretty much every other EU country has a grace period of around 30 days where a resident can use a foreign car until it is re-registered locally. UK does not support this.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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compass
Posted a lot
www.compasstrading.co.uk
Posts: 1,644
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Feb 19, 2014 18:57:38 GMT
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It just gets better and better. I'd stop digging though mate, as you're making yourself look daft.
Go back to the original question about buying a car in France and driving back to the UK; forget about the temp/perm import. As I stated, the OP is fully entitled to legally drive said vehicle on UK soil, as long as it is for a valid reason within the registration process. This means he can drive it from any port in the UK, directly to a pre booked MOT centre. All he needs is insurance. There is absolutely no doubt at all that this is 100% above board, and he is legally entitled to do this.
People are fully aware it is not legal for him to be driving on UK roads without registering it in the UK, unless for reasons as outlined above.
How difficult is it to understand this?
I believe you're getting bogged down/confused with other matters which are not relevant in these circumstances. No doubt you'll disagree yet again, that's your choice.
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simes
Part of things
Posts: 734
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Feb 19, 2014 21:34:38 GMT
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I've driven my parents car (french registered, they live there) over to the UK with them in it. Is that illegal?
What's to stop me selling it? (aside from them of course!)
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Last Edit: Feb 19, 2014 21:36:31 GMT by simes
Simes
205Mi16 - 262 cams, Jenvey Throttle Bodies, Emerald managment blah blah...... E91 320D MSport Honda NC30 Vespa 300GTS
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