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Hullo, Been trying to get the gearbox out of a W124. It's a '92 320TE, it's in very good shape for what I paid for it but it has the well documented problems with reverse gear. It's a 722.5 'box. I have an auto 'box specialist ready to do a freebie 'check and report' on it but I need to get the box out and onto a pallet. By and large, it's been straightforward. Last Sunday was getting all the covers and connections off, all the bolts bar the top couple seemed to have good access but today was very disappointing - eight hours to get three awkward bolts out and there's still one hidden up at the top! Everything is disconnected from the 'box, the exhaust is off, the fluid is all out, the shaft is marked and disconnected and the cross member is removed. The advice we had was to leave the easy bolts in place and concentrate on the top bolts by levering a bit. This turned into a total time sponge. All of the bolts are out except one at the top, like the 12 o'clock position. I've marked it below on an image from a 722.5 removal guide that, ominously, doesn't even show a bolt there.  We can feel a bolt up there but access seems impossible. We've had a go at levering the box to try and improve access but we're not sure how much we can move it without snapping something off. Any idea how much levering we can do? None of the guides we've seen suggest that the engine needs to come out first, does anyone think that's the case? Any help or advice massively appreciated. Here's the patient in my mate's very big, very well equipped, very dry but very cold workshop. Buying the car without a mate like him, keen to have a go and very capable, wouldn't have been an option.   |
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Personly i would drop the back of the box to tilt the engine back and access the top bolts with some extension bars from the rear of the box, or have you already tried that? not really sure what you are leavering TBH ?
Nearest i can get to having done it is 2 auto boxes on W123 diesels and not sure how similar they are ?
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Personly i would drop the back of the box to tilt the engine back and access the top bolts with some extension bars from the rear of the box, or have you already tried that? Not tried it yet but it's where we were heading as long as someone made reassuring noises that we weren't going to shear anything off while levering. We were talking about putting the easier bolts back in, leaving six or seven of them at the bottom and one at the top, and then levering at the prop-shaft end to get a few more inches. |
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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As long as the fan don't hit the rad or the rocker doesn't squash wiring or pipes you should be ok ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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Perfect, ta.
Someone on one of the Benz forums said to lever it until the fan reaches the rad, said it'll go further if you let it so we need to watch.
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No other way... Bring the rear of the 'box down as much as possible and use a huuuge extension to get to the bolt. It's a bit of a PITA realy - but I think you figured that out allready  The natural tilt-stop is the firewall, the cylinder head doesn't have much way to go to the firewall anyway. No evident danger of damaging anything  Remove the gearbox crossmember, let it drop as much as possible and the bolt should be just about removable with some long extensions... Rest as per BenzBoy, carefull! They'r incredibly heavy gearboxes!! In your case with this much room under the car - I'd rather pull the engine with gearbox attached to it, TBH. |
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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In your case with this much room under the car - I'd rather pull the engine with gearbox attached to it, TBH. I think I must have accidentally deleted my last post up there but yeah, I agree - lying on your back trying to detach a gearbox from the torque converter smoothly with your ribcage to break its fall isn't fun! |
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We've got a jack under the gearbox at the moment, hoping to keep it under control a bit that way.
Will the torque converter come out with the gearbox?
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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We've got a jack under the gearbox at the moment, hoping to keep it under control a bit that way. Will the torque converter come out with the gearbox? No, it's attached to the flex plates / ring gear assembly on the engine side. I'm always careful not to put too much strain on the input shaft that goes into the torque converter, as I remove the gearbox, in case I damage it. I'm not sure how likely it is that damage would occur, but to me it doesn't seem healthy for the torque converter to have a gearbox putting strain on it. If you make sure the box is supported and can withdraw backwards it shouldn't be a problem, although they never come off without a bit of wrestling I've found! |
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Last Edit: Feb 9, 2014 22:18:06 GMT by BenzBoy
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it's attached to the flex plates / ring gear assembly on the engine side. Is it a big job to relocate it into the gearbox afterwards? The guys doing the rebuild said I should let them have the 'box and the TC. If you make sure the box is supported and can withdraw backwards it shouldn't be a problem, although they never come off without a bit of wrestling I've found! Good to know that it'll put up a fight and we'd been wondering about it needing to come out backwards first. |
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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It should locate fine when re-assembling, but it can be a pain in the backside to lift the gearbox up level so that the splined shaft goes into the torque converter straight. If you have a decent jack and a nice flat floor to roll on it would make it much easier.
Coming apart, once it starts to "go" then it's just a case of supporting it and wrestling it off.
The torque converter just unbolts from the flex plates - probably 6x 13mm bolts if it's anything like the Merc engines I've worked on. You'll probably have to rotate the engine to position the bolts in an accessible place, but it'll spin by hand with a good grip on the ring gear. The fun bit is handling a big heavy round metal thing covered in slippery ATF above your head!
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Great advice, thanks.
That said, the more information I get about this the more twitchy I get.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,233 
Club RR Member Number: 160
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W124 Gearbox RemovalRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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You should remove the torque convert or from the flex plate first and leave it in the bell housing. I assume there is an access plate to get to the bolts for the torque converter. Not removed an auto box yet that hasn't had a way to unbolt the converter from the plate with the box in place.
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Feb 10, 2014 10:12:49 GMT
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You should remove the torque convert or from the flex plate first and leave it in the bell housing. I assume there is an access plate to get to the bolts for the torque converter. Not removed an auto box yet that hasn't had a way to unbolt the converter from the plate with the box in place. This sounds like what the autobox specialist was talking about when he was drilling into me that I need to leave the TC in place, thanks for that. It'll be a few days before we can get back into this job, I'll do some homework on the access panel and call Penn Autos and get confirmation about disconnecting from the flex plate first. |
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 10, 2014 13:59:58 GMT
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You should remove the torque convert or from the flex plate first and leave it in the bell housing. I assume there is an access plate to get to the bolts for the torque converter. Not removed an auto box yet that hasn't had a way to unbolt the converter from the plate with the box in place. /\ THIS /\ I never remove the convertor from the box till it's off, spin the engine over and remove the 3 or 4 bolts holding it to the flexplate first and remove with the box, when refitting fit it to the box first making sure both the splines are engauged and the TC is fully home in the box. They should be accessable with the dust plate removed or the starter, some have a rubber bung to cover the access hole or an extra bolt on plate but usually once the starter is out they can be seen passing the hole as you rotate the engine  |
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Last Edit: Feb 10, 2014 14:02:27 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Feb 10, 2014 18:48:48 GMT
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You should remove the torque convert or from the flex plate first and leave it in the bell housing. I assume there is an access plate to get to the bolts for the torque converter. Not removed an auto box yet that hasn't had a way to unbolt the converter from the plate with the box in place. /\ THIS /\ I never remove the convertor from the box till it's off, spin the engine over and remove the 3 or 4 bolts holding it to the flexplate first and remove with the box, when refitting fit it to the box first making sure both the splines are engauged and the TC is fully home in the box. They should be accessable with the dust plate removed or the starter, some have a rubber bung to cover the access hole or an extra bolt on plate but usually once the starter is out they can be seen passing the hole as you rotate the engine If I ever have the misfortune to have to remove a slushbox from a car again, I'll do it this way. It just makes much more sense! Every day's a school day. *Edit* Sorry for mis-advising you Battles. It's been a good many years since I've removed an auto box. Not sure if I just misremembered or I did it wrong and left the TC on the engine last time...  |
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Last Edit: Feb 10, 2014 19:08:39 GMT by BenzBoy
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Feb 10, 2014 19:57:09 GMT
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Mate, we were clueless anyway but I knew someone on here would have first class advice for us.
For what it's worth, my posts on the MB forums have had loads of views but only very basic advice.
Put this one down as a win for the best online car community.
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Feb 10, 2014 20:42:16 GMT
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/\ THIS /\ I never remove the convertor from the box till it's off, spin the engine over and remove the 3 or 4 bolts holding it to the flexplate first and remove with the box, when refitting fit it to the box first making sure both the splines are engauged and the TC is fully home in the box. They should be accessable with the dust plate removed or the starter, some have a rubber bung to cover the access hole or an extra bolt on plate but usually once the starter is out they can be seen passing the hole as you rotate the engine If I ever have the misfortune to have to remove a slushbox from a car again, I'll do it this way. It just makes much more sense! Every day's a school day. *Edit* Sorry for mis-advising you Battles. It's been a good many years since I've removed an auto box. Not sure if I just misremembered or I did it wrong and left the TC on the engine last time... Hope my post didn't sound like i was "having a go" ? i tend to type it exactly as i think it forgetting you cant see i'm smiling not frowning as i say/type it The best thing about leaving the TC in the box is the box disengauges after a few mm so you don't have to roll the jack back as far before dropping it, i hate having heavy boxes balencing on a jack while you roll it back and forth, dropped a few in me time  (boxes and clangers)  |
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R.I.P photobucket
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Feb 10, 2014 20:55:42 GMT
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If I ever have the misfortune to have to remove a slushbox from a car again, I'll do it this way. It just makes much more sense! Every day's a school day. *Edit* Sorry for mis-advising you Battles. It's been a good many years since I've removed an auto box. Not sure if I just misremembered or I did it wrong and left the TC on the engine last time... Hope my post didn't sound like i was "having a go" ? i tend to type it exactly as i think it forgetting you cant see i'm smiling not frowning as i say/type it The best thing about leaving the TC in the box is the box disengauges after a few mm so you don't have to roll the jack back as far before dropping it, i hate having heavy boxes balencing on a jack while you roll it back and forth, dropped a few in me time (boxes and clangers) Nah it's fine! I'm always happy to learn from the knowledgeable folk on here. It's my memory letting me down I think, as the manuals say to do it as you and Rich said (the right way... with TC off with the box), and I'd have followed the manual I'd have thought. |
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W124 Gearbox RemovalBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Feb 10, 2014 21:00:28 GMT
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Mate, we were clueless anyway but I knew someone on here would have first class advice for us. For what it's worth, my posts on the MB forums have had loads of views but only very basic advice. Put this one down as a win for the best online car community. No worries! There's loads of knowledge on RR. Hope you get the 'box off and sorted! |
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Remove the gearbox crossmember, let it drop as much as possible and the bolt should be just about removable with some long extensions... 
(boxes and clangers) 